[Srparr65]

Ok....fun argument with a buddy on what his car is worth. This is a numbers matching L78 396. Took apart the motor checked it all....numbers matching for sure. No build sheet or cowl tag. Paint job ok, but not factory color. Mechanically sound and in very nice driver shape. No full blown restoration. m22, hurst shifter and 4:10 12 bolt rear end all original.

Are they that rare?

Even though all numbers verified, no build sheet?

How much t one of these top auctions? 85K + ?

Where can I check comps?

Thanks,
Shawn

 

[CRUZN69]

No build sheet? OK. No cowl tag? Not OK. I'd say your 65-70K high.
Here are a few for sale. http://www.cars-on-line.com/ch_70-72.html.

 

[Les Saville]

Shawn unfortunately without a build sheet or PoP the 70 Chevelle your friend owns is at best, a Malibu car. Documentation is the only way to get top dollar for a 70 SS car.

 

[Keith Tedford]

Did anyone pull the heater box to verify the VIN stamping on the firewall? Without a cowl tag, this is about the only other way to be reasonably sure of authenticity. Then you have to wonder why there is no cowl tag. I would think that $85K would be pretty good money for a fully restored L78 car with full documentation, original drivetrain, and with all the correct parts and pieces and no issues. I have a '69 L78 block that can be numbers matching for any car....unless someone disassembles the engine and checks the deck height. There are not many cars out there any more that you can buy and be absolutely sure that you are getting the real deal. As with the old Corvettes, numbers matching doesn't mean much any more. Fakes are probably in the majority today and that makes it bad for legitimate cars.

 

[Sergio 69 SS396]

It is VERY odd there is no cowl tag. If you buy it, you may have an issue selling it. I'd be wondering where it went and why someone took it off. Unless they popped the rivets to paint the car and then lost it, I'd be very concerned that it's missing.

 

[GotGrunt]

Shawn unfortunately without a build sheet or PoP the 70 Chevelle your friend owns is at best, a Malibu car. Documentation is the only way to get top dollar for a 70 SS car.

I'd say a numbers matching block with factory broach marks is sufficient as well. Keep in mind that both build sheets and POPs can be reproduced.

Did anyone pull the heater box to verify the VIN stamping on the firewall? Without a cowl tag, this is about the only other way to be reasonably sure of authenticity. Then you have to wonder why there is no cowl tag. I have a '69 L78 block that can be numbers matching for any car....

Depending on where the car was made, the cowl tag wouldn't have told you much aside from the trim combination and build date. Did all plants stamp the VIN under the heater box? As for the 69 engine you have, if it's been decked, the factory broach marks are history and that is a dead giveaway of a restamp.

It is VERY odd there is no cowl tag. If you buy it, you may have an issue selling it. I'd be wondering where it went and why someone took it off. Unless they popped the rivets to paint the car and then lost it, I'd be very concerned that it's missing.

I don't think the missing cowl tag is such a huge deal. They are being reproduced and I'd rather see a missing one than a replacement. The one on my car was removed by the body shop the first owner took it to when he had it repainted. No one could imagine it would be a huge deal 40 years down the road. I guess it's a good thing I have full documentation

 

[Keith Tedford]

I understand that people are even recreating the broach marks. Where there is money involved, there are people who will find a way to make the fakes better.

 

[CRUZN69]

I understand that people are even recreating the broach marks. Where there is money involved, there are people who will find a way to make the fakes better.

Bruce has been around for quite a few years.

http://www.bigblockbruce.com/

 

[NickeyChevelle]

What has been implied in these responses, but not stated is the simple fact that the high buck cars sold at auction are "all there" -- to the point of being better than they were what they came off the assembly line. In other words they have Docs and POP, they have the Cowl Tag, but they also have heads that match up to the engine (casting numbers and date code), and an Alternator that has the correct part number and date code for the engine, plus the Carb, plus the Distributor, plus the Steering Gear Box, etc., etc. Again: those high buck cars are just about perfect -- they are not drivers by any means.

Subtract $ from your figure of $85K for every part that is not "original" to the car -- that includes exterior color: you'll get down to $20K real quick.

 

[Keith Tedford]

I don't know Shawn and wasn't inferring that he was devious in any way. I was just stating that there are so many fake cars out there that I really wouldn't want to be trying to buy a legitimate car today. The odds of getting a bad one are just too great. Corvettes have been bad for made up cars for many years and now Chevelles are nearly as bad. We need more guys like Bruce who really know their stuff to help keep buyers safe. Our '69 L78 Chevelle was a nice cruise night car but I could have spent $5K under the hood alone adding the date correct carb, dated smog system, dated exhaust manifolds and other dated pieces. It's all that correctly dated, NOS original correct or restored stuff that gets expensive. When you see one of these cars at auction sell for $85K, the seller may very well have a lot more than that into the car.

 

[Srparr65]

All the real numbers match, I don't know about correct carb, Dist, or alternator. It is definitely a driver. The cowl tag is definietly an interesting piece to the puzzle.

What do you guys think of reproducing the cowl tag if I had a certified reputable appraiser verify every number and reproduce a tag that is 100% accurate to what is there? Who reproduces cowl tags?

He now says he has a build sheet that is now unreadable, but I will see if he comes up with one and then have a document expert see if they can bring it back to life. No there is no way I would pay that kind of money. I also want to have a car I am not afraid to drive.

Thanks for all your great input.

S

 

[Andy's Auto Repair]

Shawn, the cowl tag intrigues me. I have a cowl tag in my desk for a one owner 68 L78 Chevelle I did a trade deal with a customer. Again, the guy bought the car new in Connecticut, has all the docs. But the body shop that painted the car took off the tag and welded the holes shut. The car was pretty much rebodied after 30 or so years on Northeast winters so when I inquired about putting the cowl tag back on when I reaasembled the car, he said no. Didnt want the tag reinstalled.

It sits in my desk with a file folder with around $20k in reciepts as 90% of what I did was NOS parts, no small feat for a 68. But it does say there are reasons for a missing tag.

The scary part of the build is the parts car. A triple red 68 L78. Rusting away in a field in Loxahatchee Flariduh. The only difference between the two cars is the builder has a black bucket console interior, the parts car is an all red buckets no console interior. Both have 6500 redline roller tachs.