[Showalter]

As per Coppertops suggestion I have started a new thread instead of unintentionally hijacking another.

Where I am at on this:

I have referenced Hanes 24020, Chevelle SS Restoration Guide, Wiring diagrams and a couple other books and posts.

I have put the car in Neutral, Brakes on (Both the Brake and Reverse indicators respond appropriately) and attempet to start it, which from my searches has told me that I am bypassing the PNS Switch and showing that the Ignition Switch is out.

The CAUSE was me putting in a battery backwards, burning up a fusable link near the radiator and effectively killing the car.

All of my lights and flashers work, I have tested all the fuses and cleaned the contacts in the fuse panel, and now I am stuck here without instructions on how to replace the Ignition Switch since I believe that is my current issue.

As always, thanks for any and all assistance!

-Show

 

[70 nialator]

Coppertop is the man but I’ll try…. Before replacing anything…
Do you have constant power going “TO” the switch? Brakes and neutral have nothing to do with this. Specifically pink... if you do.. with it in the start position do you have power out, violet or purple..

 

[Coppertop]

Gene,

Darren's got the right idea. You need to check your power at the switch.

However, you want to first check to see if the large red wire at the switch has 12 volts. If it doesn't, you have a problem.

If it does, the next step is to see if you have power on the purple with white stripe wire at the switch. You you HOLD the key in the crank position, you should have power on the purple-with-white-stripe wire. If you don't, there is a problem.

Let us know what you find.

 

[Showalter]

I am not entirely sure, when I turn the key to ON, I get the Temperature light on. I am pretty colorblind, so that is another issue I have.

I suspected this little box that runs from the IGN connector on the fuse block, both fuses have resistance. The purple wire goes into it, and 5 other wires are attached to it.

I am really wound up around the radio. My wiring diagrams don't give me anything about it, if I can figure out what it splices, or goes into, I should have a shot at solving this in house.

This is what I found about the Ignition Switch VS the PNS Switch : For Automatic Transmission Cars, If the engine will not crank with the car in park, push down the brake pedal and try cranking the engine with the car in neutral. If it starts, your ignition switch is good and most likely your neutral safety switch is bad. This test is bypassing the park position in the switch and now is using the little used neutral circuit. If in neutral the engine starts the neutral safety switch is probably bad. We have the widest selection of neutral safety and back-up switches in the industry to get you back on the road.

-Show

 

[Showalter]

Gene,

However, you want to first check to see if the large red wire at the switch has 12 volts. If it doesn't, you have a problem.

I can fold up pretty well to get under the column to get eyes on things, but is this a wire that needs to be back-probed? Or do I need to drop the column at all? I am more than willing to do this, but I need guidance or instructions on how to drop it so I don't make things worse along the way.

-Show

 

[Coppertop]

I am not entirely sure, when I turn the key to ON, I get the Temperature light on. I am pretty colorblind, so that is another issue I have.

I suspected this little box that runs from the IGN connector on the fuse block, both fuses have resistance. The purple wire goes into it, and 5 other wires are attached to it.

I am really wound up around the radio. My wiring diagrams don't give me anything about it, if I can figure out what it splices, or goes into, I should have a shot at solving this in house.

This is what I found about the Ignition Switch VS the PNS Switch : For Automatic Transmission Cars, If the engine will not crank with the car in park, push down the brake pedal and try cranking the engine with the car in neutral. If it starts, your ignition switch is good and most likely your neutral safety switch is bad. This test is bypassing the park position in the switch and now is using the little used neutral circuit. If in neutral the engine starts the neutral safety switch is probably bad. We have the widest selection of neutral safety and back-up switches in the industry to get you back on the road.

-Show

Show,

That picture appears to be a noise filter for an aftermarket radio. If you've got non original splices and connections, temporarily removing them, will probably help you big time on tracking things down. Add-ons from previous owners will only cause you grief from a troubleshooting standpoint. If the colorblind issue is really bad, I might suggest you ask a friend/helper to assist you, at least on the color identification, then you can take masking tape and write the colors on little flags you put on the conductors.

I don't know where you got that "troubleshooting" guide, but that has to be one of the worst troubleshooting outlines I've seen. That's now how to test the components.

 

[70 nialator]

Your gauges work off switched ignition as does almost everything. It would seem you have a constant B+ power issue from what I have read….(thank you Joe for clarifying the colors, it’s been a few years and I don’t have access to my car right now)

Sounds like you are a little stressed.. Take a breath… all circuits are is point A to point B (maybe a few obstacles in the way like switches,,Ignition, NSS, but all they do is complete the PATH when you want them to)… find out where you have power and where it stops… colors are helpful but we can still get there. The red and purple are much larger wires this should help.

 

[Showalter]

Show,

I don't know where you got that "troubleshooting" guide, but that has to be one of the worst troubleshooting outlines I've seen. That's now how to test the components.

That was from Ecklers for the replacement Ignition Switch.

I can get some help with the Color issue this weekend. Where does this red wire to the ignition switch come from? I see from the diagram provided that the lines from the battery to the starter, to the coil, and then to the 'U' shaped bit with 8 terminals on it, but I don't know what that is on the car.

 

[Coppertop]

That was from Ecklers for the replacement Ignition Switch.

I can get some help with the Color issue this weekend. Where does this red wire to the ignition switch come from? I see from the diagram provided that the lines from the battery to the starter, to the coil, and then to the 'U' shaped bit with 8 terminals on it, but I don't know what that is on the car.

Show--

The red wire is spliced internally in the dash harness. A 12 ga. red comes in behind the fuseblock from the bulkhead connector. This is the main power feed for the interior of the car. It gets spliced to feed other wires. This line has no fuses. One red branch goes to the headlight switch. One red branch goes to the ignition switch. Power is also tapped for the input for fuse block fuse connections (such as courtesy power).

When you turn the key to "ON" (right before crank to start the car), the GEN, OIL and TEMP lights should come on. If the parking brake is engaged, the BRAKE light should be on as well.

U shaped? The directional switch connector (turnsignal connector) perhaps?

To drop the column, you need to get access to the bottom of the steering column. On a '70-72 (I know you have a '69, but I don't ), there is a cover plate with 4 screws that needs to be removed. Once this is off, you'll see two large nuts holding the column to the dash frame support structure. Once those are loosened, you can carefully lower the column, but be easy with it and don't lower it any further then where the steering wheel touches the driver's seat so you don't damage the mechanism. Now you'll have a visual and access to the ignition switch mechanism.

 

[Showalter]

Show--

U shaped? The directional switch connector (turnsignal connector) perhaps?

It is just above the fuse block in the diagram 70 Nialator posted.


I pulled that piece earlier and have seen those large nuts, I thought those were part of dropping the column, but was not sure if that was all I needed to attend to. Thank you for clearing that up. I will be sure to drop it this weekend and give a visual with some back probing to everything I can see.

Am I at all correct on associating the radio not working with the Ignition Switch being out of order?

I just popped a 20A fuse into the Courtesy Light, and do not have dash, or overhead light when I engage the headlights, or twist to the left for the overhead lamp.

-Show

 

[Coppertop]

It is just above the fuse block in the diagram 70 Nialator posted.


I pulled that piece earlier and have seen those large nuts, I thought those were part of dropping the column, but was not sure if that was all I needed to attend to. Thank you for clearing that up. I will be sure to drop it this weekend and give a visual with some back probing to everything I can see.

Am I at all correct on associating the radio not working with the Ignition Switch being out of order?

I just popped a 20A fuse into the Courtesy Light, and do not have dash, or overhead light when I engage the headlights, or twist to the left for the overhead lamp.

-Show

Ok Show,

Those pieces are what they are using to represent the bulkhead connectors. These are the connectors that link the underhood wiring to the back of the fuse block so power can enter/leave the interior of the car.

One other note on the column drop, make sure you remove the kick plate behind the brake/accelerator pedals. This is the plastic piece that covers where the column passes thru the firewall and covers up where the emergency brake cable disappears into the floor. IF THE CAR HAS A COLUMN AUTOMATIC, DISCONNECT THE CABLE TO THE SHIFT INDICATOR OR YOU'LL SNAP IT.

The 20 amp "courtesy" fuse aka "BAT" fuse is hot at all times. If the fuse blows, you won't have power to courtesy lights, dome light, cigarette lighter, clock, glove box light, etc.

I'm wondering about your fuseblock/wiring?? How do the clips on the fusebock look. Rusty? Corroded? Has the wiring been "assaulted and modified" by a previous owner?

Many, many times in these cars, due to the age, the clips in the fuse block have corrosion (even if it isn't visible to the naked eye) and don't make good contact with the fuse ends. Also, the bulkhead connectors allow dirt and moisture inside on the engine compartment side and corrode up the connectors, resulting in poor connections, which = voltage drops and intermittent nightmares.

 

[Showalter]

It is pitch black out here right now, once I get my friend over who sees all of the color spectrum, I will be sure to update you all on the procedures you have informed me of, I know that this is the best place to field my questions and concerns, and get outstanding help.

I really appreciate the assistance, the books I have can only provide so much.

-Show

 

[70 nialator]

To add to Joe’s excellent advice…. it’s always best to check BOTH side of all glass fuses, with the ignition switch in RUN and the park lights ON. Make sure the test light illuminates on BOTH sides of every fuse.

EDIT - Power is only supplied to one side of the fuse, it is there to protect and carry over the current. If the load is exceeded, the fuse POPS and protects the circuit. In some cases 40+ year old glass fusses can appear to be good with no visual burn marks or visually broken traces but they are not.

 

[Showalter]

Good Morning Gang!

After much delay I am able to take another crack at this.

As per the advice of others here, I checked the fuses, ended up replacing a couple.

Traced the wiring for the Radio and found that it had apparently been powered by magic the entire time as there was about a centimeter of exposed wiring in the cap that was used to wire the power off the radio to the acc slot on the fuse block.

I am still having trouble finding the Red wire for the ignition, what with the color blindness and all. Hopefully my buddy can make it down today to give me some assistance with that.

Thanks again for the help, I read through the past posts on here at least 3 times before I even went out there to mess with it.

-Show

 

[Showalter]

Alright,

I got the Column down, pulled the first connector out with the Ignition that was red and got 12 Volts

Went down the line, and backprobbed the Purple and White, Cranked it and got a bit over 9 Volts there.

I still hear the starter go THUNK whenever I try to crank it and nothing else from it.

Is there a chance it could be the starter since I put the battery in backwards in the first place and tried to tell it to spin backwards?

Thanks as always!

-Show

 

[70 nialator]

The thunk is probably the starter solenoid engaging bendix to the flywheel. There are 2 actions that happen this is the first, the second is the spinning.

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/254

Energizing the small terminal causes the solenoid plunger to move forward. The solenoid also moves a copper washer and connects battery voltage to the starter motor. The other end of the plunger moves the drive gear into a mesh position with the gear on the flexplate, which turns the engine. Full voltage at the solenoid terminal and at the large terminal and no cranking, shows the starter or solenoid are bad. A click when the key is turned to crank, and no voltage on the lower-large terminal, usually indicates a bad starter solenoid. Voltage on the lower terminal, and no cranking means the starter motor is bad.

 

[Showalter]

I am going to stop messing with it today, but I have a new issue.

I went out, bought and replaced the starter and now I don't even get that THUNK from the bad starter when I turn it to the crank position. Everything else seems to be fine.

I don't want to make any assumptions and lead myself on a wild goose chase.

As always, I appreciate any and all assistance, this car has been sitting for far to long.

 

[70 nialator]

Did you bench test the starter you removed.. or the new one?

I seriously don’t intend to sound like a jerk here but all repairing a car is.. is process of elimination. I’m not sure you are doing that. Throwing parts at something is expensive and as you already know in this case, worthless.

FIND the parts that work the correct way by testing them the correct way… and fix the ones that don’t. If you were in Omaha I would live to come check it out, this is what we live for.

 

[Showalter]

I Took the one that was in it down to Autozone, it failed there, and then I remembered I got it from Orilieys, it failed there too.

I didn't test the new one, I guess Ill take it out tomorrow and test it.

 

[70 nialator]

I feel for you man…. But it wouldn't be the first time something was crappy, right out of the box