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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys.. HELP!! I don't know what the heck happened.. My tranny install had a few hiccups, but I posted and you guys helped me out.. So i get the tranny in, it shifts ok and when it heats up I have problems with it going into gear.. I say OK maybe my linkage needs more adjustment. I adjust and go for a ride and barely make it home, let alone the grinding concerns me. I decide to pull the linkage and feel the clutch fork out and its rubbing something.. I don't like how it feels and I pulled the tranny.... again! I reach in and grab the TOB, it looks burnt in one place and I feel shavings on it. I reach in pull back a piece of metal, I look at the input shaft on the tranny and the shaft is scraped up. I'm thinking WTH!. I look closer at the tranny and the input shaft is usually covered by shaft tunnel that is part of the front seal thing with the four bolts. That was sheared off.. that was the metal piece i found... Now I can either get mad or simply ask; Is this due to incorrect linkage, Z bar, bell-crank and rods etc? The car was originally an auto and last owner made it a 4 speed. As a matter of fact when i pulled the old tranny it had similar where on the collar and TOB. Please see pics below and let me know what the heck happened. Also is that input shaft collar or tunnel easy to find for my 78 Super T10? Man am I bummed out right now... :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
 

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Look in the crank. Did they put the pilot bearing in? The brass bushing the trans input shaft fits into. Autos do not have one. Standards it has to be put in if your converting.
It looks like they did not and the front input of the trans is moving around wildly the way it broke that.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey Randy, thanks for the quick response. There is a new oilite pilot bushing in place. That was one of the main issues when i was installing this super t10 to replace the old saginaw that was in there. the Shaft sits in there well. went in like a hot knife through butter with no binding. When I look at the linkage and how it hits the clutch fork, it doesn't push it straight back. It pushes the clutch fork down and back. I'm really leaning towards it being the incorrect clutch linkage. What do you think?
 

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It may have just been a bad T/O bearing. If the T/O bearing seizes, it can do all that damage by grinding the front bearing retainer down. Does the T/O bearing still rotate within itself?
 

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Your z-bar has been modified, maybe the previous owner didn't have the right one and tried to make this one work. That could explain why it pushes the clutch fork down. I would look into getting the right one for a 1965 car.
 

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Post some pics of your clutch fork, with the TO bearing installed on it same as when you pulled the transmission. I am leaning toward the TOB not being on the fork correctly, or the fork being a bit too long.
 

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Also, just curious, but how much freeplay did you have in the clutch pedal?
New TOB used?
Correct length TOB used?
Did you lube on the trans snout the TO bearing rides on?

Agree with the other posters that the incorrect linkage angle has to be cleaned up, but there may be more than one issue here.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok, I'll post pics of the TOB on the fork later. I did not use any lube on the TOB or trans snout.. was that a mistake? I thought any lube in that area was not a good kid. I did check for operation and there was no binding of the clutch fork on the snout. It slid freely back and forth. The TOB was and was the one shipped with the RAM clutch and pressure plate. When I adjusted for freeplay, I reviewed everyone's method and set it up to where the TOB was barely on the pressure plate and then back it off three turns which ended up being like 1/8th of an inch and I ended up with about 1.5 inches of freeplay at the pedal. Initially when everything went together it shifted well but I was concerned about the angle the linkage push rod comes in on the clutch fork. It comes downward and when observing the action as my buddy pressed the clutch, it is twisting the fork. I just ordered the complete linkage kit from OPGI, hope it's a good one) and the tranny is going in to the shop on Monday to be checked out and have the front bearing retainer and maybe even the shaft replaced.. Any other things you guys can think of are very welcome and THANK YOU all for the assist, it is greatly appreciated. Team Chevelle is AWESOME!
 

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The pictures suggest the throw out bearing was spinning on the front bearing retainer.
The inside part of the TOB should not rotate, it only slides back and forth on the retainer.
Post a picture of how the TOB was set in the clutch fork from two or three different angles with them outside the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hey guys, didn't get a chance to post pics today> I hope to get around to it tomorrow afternoon.

Verle! your 65 is BEAUTIFUL! That thing is flawless!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Verle, you bring up an interesting point... Just how did the the TOB start spinning? How is that possible? I'm trying to be logical about this and I'm thinking is it possible that the angled clutch fork action pushed the front bearing retainer till it made contact with the input shaft, the front bearing retainer heats up and breaks off, then all of it spins together? I know I had some serious heat build up as the bluing and scorching on the metal shows in the pics.
 

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The first time I changed a clutch in my 72 Chevelle, I was a young dumb teenager and didn't know what I was doing. I installed the TO bearing backward. It snapped the yoke off right away when I pushed the clutch in the first time. I heard it break and didn't drive it anywhere. I replaced the yoke on the tranny and had my girlfriends brother show me the right way to install the TO bearing. Lesson learned the hard way.
Not saying you installed your bearing backward, but the results look the same. Possibly your TO bearing seized.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Russ, I wish I could blame it on being young and dumb, had my fair share of that. One of the things that gets me is that the throw out bearing, despite how it looks, still works and as this was the second time I mated the tranny to the bellhousing, I'm sure I installed it correctly.
 

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Add a pic of your bell housing. Does the trans bearing retainer fit snugly in the housing?
 

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Verle, you bring up an interesting point... Just how did the the TOB start spinning? How is that possible? I'm trying to be logical about this and I'm thinking is it possible that the angled clutch fork action pushed the front bearing retainer till it made contact with the input shaft, the front bearing retainer heats up and breaks off, then all of it spins together? I know I had some serious heat build up as the bluing and scorching on the metal shows in the pics.
Under normal operation the mounting flange on the throwout bearing is fitted to the clutch fork in such a way that it should not rotate. Some (many) TOB have "bumps" on them that help prevent rotation when correctly installed.

If the bearing seizes the inner part could spin but you said the bearing still rolls.

Need to see pictures of the two parts together on the ground (or table).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
OK guys here are the pics you've all asked for. As of today I have a new front bearing retainer installed, thanks to Jt's Muncie's in Haverhill Mass. Same day service and he also adjusted my linkage to make sure there is no binding or issues. Just waiting on the OPGI Zbar setup.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This is s the old Zbar that I pulled from the car.. It looks wrong, fit wrong and take a look at the hacked welding job on the clutch through firewall rod!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I hope the picks show the weird angle the linkage was coming down at.. It was kind of hard capturing it from under the car. Also, take a look at the clutch forks, the first is the one I replaced since it had a bit of a bend in it. The second is the one I just removed that is not also bent. Am I correct at assuming these must be replaced as well?
 

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Did you pack the throw out bearing before you installed it? They come dry and un-packed and need to have grease installed. I learned this 20 years ago on a 1948 chevy that cooked the bearing just like yours. Steve
 
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