[Slime]

My son and I took the 327 out of his chevelle he bought today. The old girl didn't run too bad but alot of oil leaks etc. But when we tool the heads off I got sick to my stomach!! There bigger than s**t were the number .060!! Now what to do? That's the question. In any catalogs that I have .060 is the limit. And not real sure I would want to go any further if I could! Any suggestions would be great! Thanks Slime

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Steve

 

[Guest]

Depends on lots of variables. They make pistons larger of course, but the trick is can you use them?

I would whip the beast out, take it down to the bare block and find myself a machine shop with a sonic tester and have the block checked for thickness.

They do this in four places in the cylinder, at three different levels.

Most blocks are thickest on the thrust, but lack thickness between the cylinders.

I split a .030 350 block, the walls were to thin for a .030 overbore.

You would like to see at least .100 after finish bore, that would be ok for a street motor, more for a race unit.

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Wally
Gold #67
67 Malibu "Small Block"
90 SS454
71 Malibu "Small Block"
93 torch red vette

 

[Slime]

Thanks for the post. Do you know who makes them and how far past .060 they make them. This will just be a street motor. 300 hp cam and that's it.

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Steve

 

[drptop70ss]

Is the engine dead or just leaking oil? No reason why you cant stick with the pistons you have or put in new .060s if the bores are good. Not all engines need to be overbored for a rebuild..

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70 chevelle ss396 conv
66 chevelle ss396 hdp/conv
55 chevy prostreet

 

[Slime]

I haven't checked the bores yet but there is a pretty good ridge at the top. Thanks, Slime


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Steve

 

[Guest]

I know TRW made them at one time, but they were bought out. I forgot to ask if this is a resto or could you swap the block for one that has a smaller overbore?

Four inch blocks a fairly common.

If it has a serious ridge, it may be beyond hope.

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Wally
Gold #67
67 Malibu "Small Block"
90 SS454
71 Malibu "Small Block"
93 torch red vette

 

[66 bowtie]

u can always get new sleaves for the bores. Not too sure on if they are good idea or not.

------------------
OWNER OF 66 CHEVELLE MALIBU
Check out page dedicated to resto of my chevelle. still being made.
www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/9801/
Team Chevelle # 424
Canadian Classics Chevelles and Beaumonts #393
Fav Quote: Second place is the first loser...

 

[BillK]

Slime,
If there is a ridge that you can feel with your fingernail....face up to it the block is just plain worn out. You could sleeve all eight cylinders but I doubt that your wallet could stand it. At one time there were .080 pistons available for 327's but you would have to sonic test the block like Wally said. I would say if you are not too concerned with numbers matching etc....it is time for a nice 350. It will be cheaper to build than a 327 and parts are everywhere.
Take it to your local machine shop and ask thier advise.
Hope this helps,

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Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

1971 Heavy Chevy - original owner
Team Chevelle #100

 

[DZAUTO]

Steve,
I kind of get the impression that this is a numbers matching block and you want to save it. If this is the case, then the options that others advise is good advice. Here is my .02 worth. I would take it to a GOOD machinist, ask if it can be ridge reamed, honed, and then go back with brand new CAST or FEDERAL MOGUL HYPEREUTECTIC pistons (forged require more clearance) and rings. Even if some cylinders have .007-.009 clearance.

BUT, if this IS NOT the original block, it doesn't matter! At least go for a 350 (cheapest engine on the planet to rebuild). Or a 383, SB400, 396-502. If that 327 IS NOT the original engine, you will be spending more $$$$$$$$ to only marginally benefit, and still only have a 327, when you could have a 355 or bigger, and have a stronger more durable engine.
I completely understand and appreciate correct, original restorations. It is nice to see what these or any other cars looked like on the showroom. But showroom cars always begged to be tweaked to get a little extra edge. And sometimes, this required a different engine.

I graduated hi school in 61 and college in 70. I remember very clearly when guys bored 283s to 301, and when that didn't work, they swapped a 327. I remember guys replacing their bad 327s with 350s. And I really remember guys replacing their 375hp-396s with 454s. So you won't be alone.
I never have and never will be a numbers person. Too much limitation.

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Tom Parsons

 

[Slime]

It's not a number matching case. I guess because I grew up in the days of the 327 I waws hoping to go that route. Oh, well! I have a 400 block sitting in the corner of the garage. Maybe it's time to dig it out. Or maybe find a blown up 350 as I have a new,well .10 .010 crank for a 350 also. A guy called me a while back wanting to sell me a 396, needs a overhaul also. But that is too much engine for my son. At least for now. thanks for all the posts guys.

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Steve

 

[Gene Chas]

Slime, I hope the real brains ( Bill, DZ and Wally) check back to give you their spin on this,

When I workled in a shop as a kid we routinely knurled pistons. In fact, the boss claimed it was a good thing for any engine to reduce frictional losses and retain good oiling of he pistons skirts. heck, I donnow, but we did it. And if memory serves, I vaguely recall being able to dial up nearly 5 thou on the side clerance by knurling the slugs.

So, if this is an accpetable procedure ( experts, please?), then definitely have the bores miked to see how much barrel there is and how wide the skirt clearance is. You might be able to rebuild the 327 simply by knurling the pistons, or best yet, knurling a new set of forged pieces. But the measurements have to be done with your machinist.

The 327 is a great all around mild street engine IMO.

 

[DZAUTO]

Gene's right. But, the very first thing you need to do is get it to a GOOD machinist. Go from there. Since you say you have a 400 (SB, I assume), I would really encourage you to go that way. With the extra torque and power, you can run a higher rear gear, for better mileage, and STILL have bunches of go power. My 70 conv has a SB406, M20, 12bolt 3.07 posi, and it breaks the tires loose (235x15) from a stop WITHOUT dumping the clutch. And the 400 will probably be cheaper to build than the 327! If you do, use 350 rods.

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Tom Parsons

 

[Gene Chas]

Tom, naw, you LIKE the 400!

Tom's right on that, your Plan B is solid. Use the 400 if the 327 won't cut it. But, Tom, does Slime want to put a stout 400 in his kid's hands? Hmmm..... Could be a little RATTY, you know.

Steve, don;t tell junior you can build him a 400 with 400 HP and 400 ft lbs.

[This message has been edited by Gene Chas (edited 12-29-1999).]

 

[Guest]

I don't know if I agree with the more exspensive to build a 327. BillK and I are finishing a 327, we supplied everything for this deal. Since we did this as a joint deal, he did all the machine work, supplied all the parts and I did all the mock up and assembly, cleaning, painting etc.

A fair price for this motor manifold through oil pan would be about 2700.

It includes some decent head work, stainless valves in the heads, seats in the exhaust, KB pistons, new cam, lifters, rockers, balls and nuts, push rods, oil pump and pickup.

We also put ARP main bolts in, ARP rod bolts and new head bolts.

The block was bored, honed, align honed, decked to zero. The heads were cc'd and cut on the flat and the intake. The crank was done .010 under and the whole deal was balanced.

This is the same drill you would use to build any stout motor, cost are the same, so how is it more expensive?

The KB hyper type pistons for a 327 are more, but I'm hard headed and that is what I wanted to use.

That advice about finding a good machine shop Tom gave you is right on the money. The only thing Bill had to farm out was the crank and the align hone, the rest was done in house.



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Wally
Gold #67
67 Malibu "Small Block"
90 SS454
71 Malibu "Small Block"
93 torch red vette

 

[IgnitionMan]

If you can find a good 350 block, and a good 307 crank, you will end up making a low budget large journal 327 with 327 pistons and easy to find 350 large journal rods. It should all bolt together easily.

Most people throw 307 cranks away from not knowing what they can do, 350 blocks are easy to find with stock bore sizes, large journal rods are everywhere, and 327 pistons are available up to .090 in most maker's catalogues.

If you find the block to not pass wall thickness from a sonic test, try this method or do your 400 thing. 406s run neat, and if I really wanted a 350, I'd use the spacer bearings for large journal crank to 400 block, 307 crank, 6.00 inch rods and off the shelf pistons, to make the 350 the way I have been doing for 20+ years.

Short stroke hybrid 350s and 406 engines are the best small blocks, followed by the 383 hybrid, then any 327. Anything after that is tow-truck material.

Just my experience and opinion.

 

[DZAUTO]

Wally,
I should have been more specific. Generally 327 pistons are more expensive than the 350/400 off the shelf pistons. I have built only one 400 with KB pistons and have not had ANY problems with it. I just personally don't like that big top ring gap, that's all. So now I use the F-M hypereutectic. As you say, most everything else is about the same $$$$$. But, for your $$$$$, the 400 will provide more HP/torque (at a lower rpm) than the 327. To me, that is where the savings is.

Gene,
As far as a 400 in the hands of a kid, if he just went back with a moderate 9-9.5:1 compression 400 with a mild hydraulic cam (say for example like the old L-82 cam), STOCK head rebuild with the 1.94/1.5 valves, that would make a very nice FIRST engine and it could run on unleaded regular all day long. Start him out easy!

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Tom Parsons

[This message has been edited by DZAUTO (edited 12-30-1999).]

 

[Gene Chas]

Tom, LC on that. But Steve did mention a "concern" about balz for junior. Since 400 seem to be becoming rarer, I wouldn't waste my time and the engine components and would build it for a reliable long term 1 HP/per cube. That's what you do with 400's , yes?

Anyway, not a bad fallback or "backdoor" if the 327 bores are all big and barelled.

 

[halldor]

Scoggin-Dickey sell standard issue 454 for
1970-1974 trucks a 2800$,so it´s maybe a better deal,but it´s only a 250 Hp motor,right?But notheless a new Goodwrench,not a rebuild.
It´s a pick and choose game i guess.
HR

 

[halldor]

Scoggin-Dickey is offering a Goodwrench 454 for pickups for a 2799$,it is a new engine,but maybe not a great performer,but for 2700$ it´s worth thinking about,right?
It would be a better engine than a 1500$ rebuild worth of 30+ 327 engine,?
Hr

 

[halldor]

oops,