Team Chevelle banner

Disc Brake Conversion basics

287K views 79 replies 62 participants last post by  69nomad350 
#1 ·
What's Stopping You? -Disc Brake Tech -by Derek Kiefer

The options are nearly endless for adapting disc brakes to the front of your Chevelle or El Camino. Much consideration must be given to your budget, your intentions for how you’ll use the car, and of course your safety when dealing with your brakes. Most of our Chevelles would have came from the factory with drum brakes, with the exception of some ‘67-72s that had optional discs and all ‘69-72 SS cars, which came standard with discs. Many of them have been converted, either using original parts, kits, or some of the other popular swaps. Each option has advantages and disadvantages. Hopefully this information will help you decide which setup is right for your car. The most important part of this is choosing your spindles.

Stock Disc Spindles: GM was good at making things interchangeable, and the front spindles were no exception. There are several cars you can look for when searching for these spindles, and they are a direct swap onto any ’64-72 Chevelle. You can find them on 67-72 GM A-bodies (Chevelle, Monte Carlo, El Camino, Skylark, GS, LeMans, GTO, Cutlass, 442). They were also used on GM’s 67-69 F-body (Camaro, Firebird) and ‘68-74 X-body (Nova, Omega, Ventura, Apollo). 1967 was the first year for the factory disc brakes, and along with the ‘68s, they used the very rare four-piston calipers. These are very expensive to rebuild, and are worth much more to someone looking for “correct” 67-68 discs than to anyone just looking to stop well. For this reason, it is recommended to use the ‘69 and later single-piston calipers. The 11” discs are sufficient for stopping your Chevelle for ordinary type driving, but they will get hot and fade quickly if you do any road-course racing.

Stock Drum Spindles: These are good for more than just scrap iron, so don’t throw them out just yet. With a little machining, you can bolt the stock disc caliper brackets on them, and “convert” them to disc spindles for about $80 if you can do the machine-work yourself. The drum spindles are also very popular for modifying to fit 12” C4 and 13” C5 Corvette brakes. There is some minor machining to be done on the upper bolt boss, custom caliper brackets need to be fabricated, and the Corvette rotors slip on over the drum brake hubs. Access to a machine-shop is helpful, but there have been many “do-it-yourself’ers” who have made their own brackets using 5/16” thick flat steel.

S-10 and G-body Spindles: The brakes from 2-wheel-drive S-10s and S-15s and the G-bodies (Monte Carlo, Malibu, Regal, etc.) of the 80s are somewhat popular for converting drum brake Chevelles to discs. They are basically a direct swap, except for the lower ball-joint, which requires machining to fit the Chevelle lower A-arms. This swap is not recommended for heavy street-use, because the rotors are only 10” diameter. This is not sufficient to safely stop your heavy Chevelle in traffic. The drag racers like this swap, because the small rotors are light, and reduce rotating mass. Drag racing doesn’t require heavy braking, so this is fine for this purpose. The conversion is simple, as you simply use the ball-joints, calipers, rotors, and tie-rod ends from the donor-car.

“Tall” Spindles: This topic always creates controversy. Some guys love them, and others equate them to the anti-christ. There are positives and negatives, but overall it’s an affordable mild performance upgrade, with parts that are easy to find. The positive aspects of this spindle come from the option of upgrading to 12” rotors, and it’s height, which changes the geometry favorably by increasing negative camber gains in compression, giving the tires more bite to the pavement. The stock Chevelle spindles are 2” shorter, and actually create positive camber in compression, causing only the outer edge of the tire to bite the pavement. The negative effects from this spindle are spawned entirely from the steering arm location, which creates bump-steer issues much worse than the stock spindles. The length of the steering arm will also make your turning radius wider, and slow your turning ratio. These spindles will lower your car about 3/4” from stock, and widen your track-width, so larger backspacing wheels may be needed for fender clearance. Aftermarket upper control arms, or offset cross-shafts will be necessary for a proper alignment. The offset shafts are much cheaper, but some people have clearance issues with them, especially on big-block ‘64-67 Chevelles with headers.

The choices for donors of “tall” spindles are determined by what size brakes you want, 11” or 12”. The ‘73-77 Chevelles have a tall spindle that uses an 11” brake with a 4-3/4” bolt circle. ‘77-’90 Caprice (civilian) sedans also had 11” rotors and 4-3/4” bolt circle, however the ‘77-90 Caprice police-package cars and station wagons, and all ‘91-96 caprices used 12” rotors and a 5” bolt circle. To adapt to a 4-3/4” bolt-circle, you can use the 1LE police package ‘89 Camaro rotors. The ‘77 model year spindles will not work because the outer bearing was smaller, and will not fit with the 1LE rotors, and the late-95 and all 96 spindles have a 5/8” lower ball-joint rather than a 9/16”, so for this swap it is recommended that you use ‘78-94 Caprice 12” brake spindles. If you are doing this swap, it’s worth the extra money to upgrade to the 12” rotors because their larger size allows them to absorb more heat, the increased surface area helps to dissipate the heat more quickly, and the extra leverage allows more stopping power with less effort. The 12” B-body brakes are the largest brakes that will fit inside a 15” wheel. To adapt the B-body spindles, you use the B-body calipers, bearings, and ball-joints, G-body tie-rod ends, and the Camaro 1LE rotors. The lower ball joints need to be machined to fit the chevelle arms. The wheel studs are metric, so metric lug-nuts, or changing the studs will be necessary.

Aftermarket Spindles: There are several companies selling replacement OEM style spindles, and 2” drop spindles. There are also a few companies with better options in the works. Fatman Fabrications (www.fatmanfab.com) is working on a 2” drop “Tall” spindle that uses the stock Chevelle steering arms, so you get the advantages of both the stock steering geometry, and the improved camber-curve of the tall-spindles. ATS (www.t56kit.com) is making an aluminum spindle that uses C5 corvette hubs, with optimized geometry similar to the Fatman spindles. Both of these new spindles are currently in the engineering and testing phase, and have not been released for sale at this time. [They will be available very soon -DK 11/03/05]

Tall Ball-Joints: While using your short OEM spindles, adding Howe Precision “tall” ball-joints from Savitske Classic & Custom (www.scandc.com), will effectively add height to the spindle. You can run tall uppers for slight improvements, or tall upper and lowers for more dramatic improvements. You will achieve all the benefits of the tall spindles with none of the drawbacks, and your options for adapting larger Corvette brakes still apply. When using the lower tall ball joints, you will lower your car 3/4” and decrease bump-steer.

I’m no brake expert, most of this information was researched here while I changed my plan daily, and had to keep researching new options. I have officially decided to use OEM spindles, with stock 11” brakes, until my budget allows for 17” wheels to clear the C5 13” Corvette brakes I really want.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
12/10/05 - Fatman Fabrications Tall drop spindles are now available.
 
#3 ·
ATS spindles are also available i have my set in my hands allready - nice quality too! and accept C5 12.7" brake rotors and calipers
 
#4 ·
I've had Superior Spindle 2" drop spinddles on my 66 chevelle for a year or two, and am very happy with them. it's a nice heavy duty casting with mounting points cast in for wilwood 4 piston calipers. the machine work was very precise - i didn't need any of the adjustment shims for the calipers on either side. the only problem i had was with the spindle casting interfering with the brake pads. if you were to dry fit the caliper and try to slide the pads in, it's easy to see where the corner of the backing plate of the pad hits the spindle. probably the best thing to to would be to demel off a 16th of the spindle, but since the calipers were already loctited, torqued, saftey wired, and on the car, i just dremeled off the corner of the backing plate. of course, i'll have to do this every time i want to switch pads, so modifying the spindle is probably the better choice. anyway, i'm happy with their product, and no, i'm not affiliated with them.
http://www.superiorspindles.com/
 
#7 ·
Our spindles are not 2 piece construction. They are a solid forging of 6061-T6 aluminum, and they are at least 30% stronger than the OEM C5/C6 Corvette pressure cast A356 aluminum spindles. Our spindles held 12x the load they were deisgned for, and have ZERO flex in them.

Tyler
 
#6 · (Edited)
Good post, I can see why it was given a sticky status. :thumbsup:

I rebuilt the front suspention on my 68 Chevelle in 1998, using stock moog bits, and poly bushing new springs KYB gasadjust shocks, and larger sway bar.
Even had the A-arms powder coated.

But last year I spent most of my "Chevelle time" sorting out issues on my 72.
When I did get the 68 out of the garage I noticed the braking performace seems to have suffered the inactive time.

The front brakes consists of the factory 2 piston calipers, stock master cylinder, booster, stainless braded lines, and summit sourced cross drilled rotors.

So I'm currently thinking about a new brake system, and possibly stepping up to tubular uppers.

I'm really thinking about trying for well past stock capabilities, and trying to improve steering reponse as well.

The tall spindle set up above is appealing because it consists of what should be fairly readily available parts.

In my stash of future upgrades I've got a stock reman "quick ratio" powersteering box, that I hope to use.

Otherwise what specific parts are you using ?

As you can see in the sig pic I'm running 15" TTDs my wife got me for Christmas a few years ago, and wonder if the 12" disc will fit inside those, because I'd rather not replace them.

I've got a wife and two kids, so cost is aways an issue, and so is safety since they'll likely be in the car with me sometimes.
I don't want to spend money on wrong mods.

I can probably start collecting the pieces pretty soon, but want to be sure that I select A-arms that will complement the tall spindles, and not lessen what should be a much quicker ratio steering box than the stocker thats on there now.

Another point is I would want this to be a bolt together in a weekend deal.
I've had projects linger too long in the past, and want to minimize "down time".
 
#10 ·
Not directly, they fall under the "Tall Spindle" category... you'll need aftermarket (expensive) upper A-arms, and have bumpsteer problems with that swap.
 
#64 ·
Hi Derek,

I have read that I can't use my stock 14" rims for my 68 if I convert to the disc brakes.
Is this true or is there another solution.

Thanks,

Tom
I'm having the same issue with my '66 Impala. I want to keep my 14" stock wheels and "SS" hub caps while adding disc brakes in the front. I have found this solution but have no tried it out yet.

http://www.abspowerbrake.com/maincatalog_frameset.html
 
#13 ·
That depends on the wheel, some 14s fit and some don't.

Do you know anybody local with disc-brake car you can test fit your wheel on?
 
#17 ·
Can you run down the correct brake hardware? What master cylinder should be used with a 12" disc brake conversion? What is the proper proportioning valve for a front disc conversion with 12" brakes? And finally, if I am ordering new brake lines for my 1966 El Camino, what modifications to the original lines should I ask for?
 
#18 ·
Hello :hurray:

I am Rainer from Hamburg, which is in the North of Germany. I am owning my 68" El Camino now for 16 years and decided last year to do a frame off resto. The low Dollar helps a lot. Everything is going well till now.
I like to improve the front brake system and also to install 2" Drop spindles.
I spend hours/days looking for the right stuff in the internet. Most of the things are not what I am expecting. Cheap small rotors, one piston calipers with lookalike homemade brackets and spindles which I have to modify to fit the right caliper. I am looking for very good solution with all parts included and Plug and Play installation. Now I found the Kits BKD36BLK and BKD44BLK at Year One. Does anybody has experience with these parts. Has somebody another perfect recommendation?

Have a lot Fahrvergnügen

Rainer
 
#19 · (Edited)
Bilster, Global west's website has all the information you need for a 12" conversion. They want around $1200 for the brake kit to go in their $700 upper A-arms. You can source the brake parts and better ones yourself for much less. The only thing I bought from them was the outer tie rods, upper and lower ball joints, and assembled upper A-arms with offset shafts, a few years back the whole kit was only $600. I then bought a set of 94 Impala spindles ( $80 @ junk yard), Cross drilled 12" 1LE rotors from summit (leave the 12mm 1.5 studs and get the matching lugs if you do rear discs you will need longer studs any way and you can just order those in metric so that they all match:)) ($220), mid 80's rebuilt Camaro calipers from Knect's ($100), and Power Stop pads ($50). Brakes hoses from a second gen Camaro will work for the front (Global West has braided stainless for the same price or a little cheaper than quality OEM replacements both sides for $83:D). Of course new bearings, seals, lower A-arm bushings, inner tie rods (stock Chevelle) and however far you want to go with rebuilding the suspension. As for hard lines your stockers will work ( I ordered stainless steel ones through Ausley's Chevelle...their service sucked and they sent the wrong lines, but when I got the right ones they fit beautifully. I used a Corvette master , because I went with the 00' Camaro SS rear discs ( very nice inexpensive rear disc w/internal parking brake conversion I have about $300 total into it and I can get replacement parts at a local parts store...same with the front brake parts and through the wheels it all looks OEM!:thumbsup:) Global West can tell you exactly which one to use with disc/drum, been a while and I can't remember. If you do order new hard lines I would look into having them cut the rear main mainline right next to the master cylinder 9/16" 18 thread fitting and put a 3/8" 24 flare fitting on both sides of the cut. Then you could run a Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve and buy readily available adapters to go from Wilwoods ($40-50) 1/8 NPT to the 3/8 24 flare and locate it where it is easy to access for adjustment instead of right before the rear axle...where mine ended up. The adapters to put it in front of the 9/16 18 fittings are not available and that stainless line is damn near impossible to flare at home:noway:. So far this is what I have come up with and it all seems to fit up nice. I am sure I left something out, but it ends of being a 12" front and rear (you could leave out the rear) disc tall spindle conversion that comes out a lot cheaper than buying plug and play kits if $$$ is your concern and you are willing to spend the time tracking parts down. Hope this helps some one out!:beers:
 
#80 ·
Bilster, Global west's website has all the information you need for a 12" conversion. They want around $1200 for the brake kit to go in their $700 upper A-arms. You can source the brake parts and better ones yourself for much less. The only thing I bought from them was the outer tie rods, upper and lower ball joints, and assembled upper A-arms with offset shafts, a few years back the whole kit was only $600. I then bought a set of 94 Impala spindles ( $80 @ junk yard), Cross drilled 12" 1LE rotors from summit (leave the 12mm 1.5 studs and get the matching lugs if you do rear discs you will need longer studs any way and you can just order those in metric so that they all match:)) ($220), mid 80's rebuilt Camaro calipers from Knect's ($100), and Power Stop pads ($50). Brakes hoses from a second gen Camaro will work for the front (Global West has braided stainless for the same price or a little cheaper than quality OEM replacements both sides for $83:D). Of course new bearings, seals, lower A-arm bushings, inner tie rods (stock Chevelle) and however far you want to go with rebuilding the suspension. As for hard lines your stockers will work ( I ordered stainless steel ones through Ausley's Chevelle...their service sucked and they sent the wrong lines, but when I got the right ones they fit beautifully. I used a Corvette master , because I went with the 00' Camaro SS rear discs ( very nice inexpensive rear disc w/internal parking brake conversion I have about $300 total into it and I can get replacement parts at a local parts store...same with the front brake parts and through the wheels it all looks OEM!👍) Global West can tell you exactly which one to use with disc/drum, been a while and I can't remember. If you do order new hard lines I would look into having them cut the rear main mainline right next to the master cylinder 9/16" 18 thread fitting and put a 3/8" 24 flare fitting on both sides of the cut. Then you could run a Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve and buy readily available adapters to go from Wilwoods ($40-50) 1/8 NPT to the 3/8 24 flare and locate it where it is easy to access for adjustment instead of right before the rear axle...where mine ended up. The adapters to put it in front of the 9/16 18 fittings are not available and that stainless line is damn near impossible to flare at home:noway:. So far this is what I have come up with and it all seems to fit up nice. I am sure I left something out, but it ends of being a 12" front and rear (you could leave out the rear) disc tall spindle conversion that comes out a lot cheaper than buying plug and play kits if $$$ is your concern and you are willing to spend the time tracking parts down. Hope this helps some one out!🍻
your front are 00 Camaro SS also? what would I need to swap stock drums with a dual res master to 00 camaro brakes on the front and leave the back drums for now?
 
#20 ·
I am considering when I rebuild the front end on my 66 chevelle,converting it to disk brakes.I have the complete front and rear disk brakes from a 2002 Z-28,including the master cylinder,that would have been installed on an 86 Trans Am,that is until a truck turned in front of the Trans Am and took out the entire drivers side of the car.I know what I had to do to install this on the TA,but I'm not sure if this will work for my Chevelle.I still have the TA for parts if any of this can be used.Has any one done this using these parts.
 
#22 ·
The car is a 66 SS396 4-speed 12 Bolt. I thank you for your reply. I gather from what I have read that the front spindels can be modified to work,so I will probably buy a set from OPG to use rather than modify the originals.I can have brackets made to mount the calipers so thats not a problem.I didnt know the rears would be that easy. Thanks for the info.
 
#25 ·
I'd rather modify and re-use the originals than trust reproduction spindles... the repros (made in China) are known to be too soft of metal which leads to egg-shaped balljoint tapers and broken balljoints. :rolleyes:
 
#27 ·
The reason I dont want to modify the original parts,this car is pretty much all original and numbers matching,and I want to keep everything that came with it.If I ever sell it I figure whoever buys it might want to put it back to its original state.Its a rusty "Michigan" car,but its getting repaired and fixed as I go along.
I was unaware that the parts were offshore but what choice do I have.Thanks for the information.
 
#28 ·
To add some information here, If someone that wants to upgrade to a stock disc brake system from drums, and retain their original 14" steel wheels, you can use G body steel rims. Stock drum brake Chevelle rims will not clear stock 69-72 disc brakes. The G Body rims fit the stock 69-72 disc brakes, are 14 x 6, have the 4.75" bolt circle, and has provisions to attach the dog dish hubcaps.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Can some one explain what “bump steer” is?
But please explain it like you are talking to a 4 year old.
OR if you have a link please post it up.
Thanks
 
#30 ·
Derek,

How about the steering arms? Are they all interchangable with the available spindles or do I have to get arms for that specific application.
There are new spindle/caliper bracket/backing plate packages all over the internet but none of them come with steering arms.
I compared steering arms on ebay from different cars (chevelle, nova, camaro) and they look slightly different.
Thanks,
Don
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top