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Weird Alignment Issue

4K views 23 replies 14 participants last post by  temp2c 
#1 ·
A year ago I bought a 67 Chevelle SS that already had a QA1 Street Performance upper control arms and sway bar installed. The lower arms, springs and shocks are still basically stock. It also had the stock power steering box, which was really sloppy. I recently installed a new Borgeson 12.7:1 box. The steering was then nice and tight...huge improvement. No more constant steering input on the freeway. The car did want to slowly track to the right, so I brought it in for alignment. Now I'm wondering what the heck is going on with these caster numbers. NEGATIVE 3.15, are you kiddin' me?

The shop is competent and their equipment is top notch. They have done other vintage cars for me in the past with good results. They just couldn't dial in any more positive caster. I got on the phone with QA1 support and we went over the possible issues. The arms are on the correct side, the cross shafts are installed correctly, ball joints appear correctly aligned. The only thing we haven't done is adjust the upper ball joint mount (the QA1's are adjustable). I'll try that, but I don't think there is 8 degrees of positive adjustment there.

Any advice or knowledge would be appreciated at this point. The car drives fine really. Maybe it steers a little too easy, but it doesn't wander and tracks straight. No bump steer either.

Frank
 

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#2 ·
I just went through something similar but a little different. Installed new tubular upper and lower control arms and ASSUMED they were properly matched.Turned out the lower control arms were 1" too short, but I assumed they were correct so kept trying to push the camber out. Scratched my head a bit before I figured it out.
With yours, it seems the upper control arm center isn't jiving with the lower? That's obviously a ton of caster, seems the parts aren't right.
 
#3 ·
Are you sure that those new upper arms are compatible with stock lower arms? Some aftermarket arms move the ball joint locations around to improve overall geometry. Point being, those aftermarket upper arms may only be intended to be used with matching aftermarket lower arms.

Also, I think those aftermarket arms have offset cross shafts so if those cross shafts are installed wrong or 180 degrees out they would jack with the caster in a bad way I'd think.
 
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#7 ·
Are you sure that those new upper arms are compatible with stock lower arms? Some aftermarket arms move the ball joint locations around to improve overall geometry. Point being, those aftermarket upper arms may only be intended to be used with matching aftermarket lower arms.

Also, I think those aftermarket arms have offset cross shafts so if those cross shafts are installed wrong or 180 degrees out they would jack with the caster in a bad way I'd think.

According to tech at QA1, these arms are compatible with stock lowers. I thought the same thing right away, that the PO might have mounted the control arms on the wrong sides. According to QA1tech, the "QA1" sticker is on the forward side of the control arms (not a definitive identifier obviously, but mine are towards the front) and the "bent" side of the control arms should also be towards the front of the car, with the straighter arm towards the rear. Mine appears to be correct, but tomorrow I'll jack it up, pull the tires and check for sure.
 
#4 ·
Any advice or knowledge would be appreciated at this point. The car drives fine really. Maybe it steers a little too easy, but it doesn't wander and tracks straight. No bump steer either.

Frank
I bring no good advice or knowledge, other than to ask a question.....does the steering return to center? My alignment shop is not top notch (i didnt know this before hand), when they first did my alignment, they set it back to factory specs, and it really didnt return much. When i went back with numbers i got from people here, return to center improved, and is almost 100%, but they could only get +2 degrees with factory control arms.
 
#24 ·
The steering box has a lot to do with return. I never realized this until I installed this latest box from Lee. Its a 14:1 with a 30 pound valve. It returns like a manual even with only 1 degree of positive caster.
I think most power boxes over assist and the tech from Lee I was talking to agrees. Lee is owned by new people but they still have many of the old timers working there. That said these new owners are making some changes to the box and the changes are great!! This new Lee box is a dream. It does everything well. It gives my 69 el camino such a nice feel, kind of like a real nimble go cart..
I had a 12:1 I bought from Lee years ago and this one too over assisted.. I needed 6 degrees or more positive caster to get the steering wheel to return fast.. When you think of it, cars with manual boxes only have one or two degrees caster and they return fast..
 
#11 ·
When I installed my UMI uppers, I made the mistake of getting them on the wrong sides. This was even after reading instructions and thinking I had them on correct. With them on the wrong side, I was getting over 10* of positive caster, so I don't think that's your issue.

jim
 
#13 ·
When I installed my UMI uppers, I made the mistake of getting them on the wrong sides. This was even after reading instructions and thinking I had them on correct. With them on the wrong side, I was getting over 10* of positive caster, so I don't think that's your issue.

jim

Thanks Jim, feel better knowing I was not the only one to put them on backwards. :)
 
#14 ·
Here’s some photos of the driver’s side upper control arm. Some of the guys over on the pro-touring forum say they’re mounted on the wrong side, but QA1 tech doesn’t think so. Any opinion? I’ll get the left/right arm measurements from QA1 today and verify.




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#23 ·
Here’s some photos of the driver’s side upper control arm. Some of the guys over on the pro-touring forum say they’re mounted on the wrong side, but QA1 tech doesn’t think so. Any opinion?

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This is UMI, but the geometry should be close.
here's both pictures in the same post to make it easier to look at one vs the other.
 
#16 ·
Yep, +3-4* according to QA1. I just got off the phone with them again. Sent them the photos and measurements of the arms (front and back). QA1 tech believes they are installed correctly. For visual reference, they said that the center of the ball joint (red grease zerk cap) should line up slightly forward (towards the front of the car) from the snubber bolt on the gusset. Mine does. If the arms were switched left to right, that visual reference would line up towards the rear of the car.


I'll take it to another alignment shop, but this one has been really good in the past...independent shop, good equipment, willing to set up to aftermarket specs, etc. They set up my 69 Camaro (full Global West front) and last month did my 57 Chevy (tubular uppers/stock lowers/tall ball joints) with perfect results. Still not sure what's going on here. I guess I could try swapping the a-arms left to right and see what happens.
 
#19 ·
This is UMI, but the geometry should be close. You have an angle above the ball joint, not parallel, and it's canted to the front, not the rear. They look backwards. Here's how mine sit.



Thanks for this. Now I’m definitely going to switch them around and see what happens. I’ll report back.


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#20 ·
QA1 sent me schematic diagrams of the arms, that included measurements from various reference points. Basically the front and rear arms are .5” difference in length and .3” difference in height. There are angle differences too. I measured mine and they match the diagrams. Now what, haha. I’ll get it aligned again and if that doesn’t work, this winter I’ll strip the whole front end down and start from scratch. The bushings in the LCA’s look shot anyway. That will give me a chance to do tubular lowers, drop spindles and new shocks. More $$...


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