Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 5th, 20, 11:35 PM
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Don
 
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Great tips. Nice little relay center. I just installed a Sniper EFI on a 69 Camaro I bought last year. Still needs some tuning. I'll be adding the Hyperspark distributor this week so I can adjust timing. And my 71 Chevelle is getting the LS swap so appreciate the info.

Don
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 20, 12:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volks View Post
Great tips. Nice little relay center. I just installed a Sniper EFI on a 69 Camaro I bought last year. Still needs some tuning. I'll be adding the Hyperspark distributor this week so I can adjust timing. And my 71 Chevelle is getting the LS swap so appreciate the info.

Don
Don,

Are you using a Holley EFI system for the LS in the Chevelle? That little relay center also works great with other Holley EFI systems, like the Terminator X.

Andrew


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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 6th, 20, 10:39 PM
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Hey Andrew. The Chevelle is using the connect and cruise GM stuff. Its a new LSA with T56. Still doing bodywork on it. Should be ready for paint by summer then the engine and trans will go back in.

Don
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 20, 10:13 AM
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Great write-up Andrew! I think one of the hardest parts of doing wiring work is knowing what various terminal types are called, and what is available. Knowing there is Metri-pak 150/280/480, and how/why those are different from normal Weather-pak, or the various Bosch and Deutsch (sp?) connectors. And then you sometimes need specific tools to crimp those pins. I like using OEM-style connectors where I can, but in the end, I'll just splice/solder/shrinkwrap if I have to.

I recently joined the "motorsports wiring alliance" group on Facebook, and while it's a decent resource, esp for trying to identify connectors, it's a bit higher-end. I'm not building concentric-twist harnesses. Maybe I should, but I'm not there yet. Are there any good websites for wiring tech?

And if I've learned only one thing working with electrical: *always* check your grounds.

-Dave

'70 Chevelle ZZ383/700r4/3.73, [email protected] -- MS3X efi / Hotchkis A-arms & Springs / B-body 12" brakes / 1.25" F-body swaybar / UMI rears & swaybar / JGC PwrStrUpg
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 20, 11:24 AM
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Good write-up. I do have one question that is perhaps, best answered by Holley Tech, but Iíll ask it here; WHY must the Sniper main power go directly to the battery? If one has a good distribution block properly wired and mounted close to the battery being fed with a wire of sufficient gauge, whatís the difference? I can understand that theyíd be concerned about running loose connectors, inadequate gauge jumpers, corroded connectors, or whatever. But wouldnít a proper distribution block provide a solid connection?
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 20, 12:22 PM
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Hey Andrew, thanks for the nice write up. I know several guys who could/should take this advise.

My question, whats your opinion on soldering of terminals such as ring and fork type? I had watched several of the Holley online videos and they seemed to prefer crimp over solder in most cases. When I recently did the harness in my car I did solder all the ECM terminals that went to the battery but used uninsulated crimp terminals with adhesive lined heat shrink on most everything else.

The crimper I used were similar to the style below, single barb that pushed into barrel in middle.
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Jeff Evans
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67 Chevelle, ZZ502, AFR 305, Straub Solid Roller, 400 Turbo, Moser Rear 3.42 gear
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 20, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volks View Post
Hey Andrew. The Chevelle is using the connect and cruise GM stuff. Its a new LSA with T56. Still doing bodywork on it. Should be ready for paint by summer then the engine and trans will go back in.

Don
Don,

The GM harnesses actually include a power distribution center, similar to the Bussmann that I described in my write-up. So if that center is mounted and wired properly, you will be good to go. I use a GM ECU and harness in my LS swapped 70 GTO and it has been working great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevelleFan70 View Post
Great write-up Andrew! I think one of the hardest parts of doing wiring work is knowing what various terminal types are called, and what is available. Knowing there is Metri-pak 150/280/480, and how/why those are different from normal Weather-pak, or the various Bosch and Deutsch (sp?) connectors. And then you sometimes need specific tools to crimp those pins. I like using OEM-style connectors where I can, but in the end, I'll just splice/solder/shrinkwrap if I have to.

I recently joined the "motorsports wiring alliance" group on Facebook, and while it's a decent resource, esp for trying to identify connectors, it's a bit higher-end. I'm not building concentric-twist harnesses. Maybe I should, but I'm not there yet. Are there any good websites for wiring tech?

And if I've learned only one thing working with electrical: *always* check your grounds.

-Dave
Dave,

I completely understand what you're saying. It took me a long time to wrap my mind around exactly the problem that you are describing. This is why I attempted to provide some definitions in my write-up.

Weatherpacks (made by Aptiv, formerly known as Delphi) are the older style, water resistant connectors. They were developed to replace the older, un-insulated, Packard 56 series connectors that we see on older GM cars (typical 1/4" blades and female counterparts). Metripack connectors were developed later, as wire density became a concern. This is why there are different series (150, 280, 480, 630, 800 these numbers refer to the width of the male terminals in millimeters) because each series has different current capacities. I won't get into other types of connectors, but they are made by different manufacturers and have their unique ways of terminal retention, and weather sealing methods.

I hope this helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by any4xx View Post
Good write-up. I do have one question that is perhaps, best answered by Holley Tech, but Iíll ask it here; WHY must the Sniper main power go directly to the battery? If one has a good distribution block properly wired and mounted close to the battery being fed with a wire of sufficient gauge, whatís the difference? I can understand that theyíd be concerned about running loose connectors, inadequate gauge jumpers, corroded connectors, or whatever. But wouldnít a proper distribution block provide a solid connection?
The simple answer to this is that the battery acts as a source of clean power and acts as a giant capacitor that serves as a buffer against electrical surges and other sources of interference. I was tempted to wire the Sniper ECU to the Bussmann panel, but again, wiring it to the battery is easy insurance against any potential problems. As I mentioned in the original write-up, the Chevelle had the Sniper power connected to the same source as the cooling fans. This caused major issues, because when the fans kicked ON it caused a momentary voltage drop to the Sniper.

Andrew


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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 20, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff65SS View Post
Hey Andrew, thanks for the nice write up. I know several guys who could/should take this advise.

My question, whats your opinion on soldering of terminals such as ring and fork type? I had watched several of the Holley online videos and they seemed to prefer crimp over solder in most cases. When I recently did the harness in my car I did solder all the ECM terminals that went to the battery but used uninsulated crimp terminals with adhesive lined heat shrink on most everything else.

The crimper I used were similar to the style below, single barb that pushed into barrel in middle.
Jeff,

As the Holley videos will tell you, both soldered and crimped connectors are just as reliable, as long as both are done properly.

For Metripack connectors, there is no option but to use the proper crimping tool to attach the terminals to the wires. For butt connectors (which I try hard to avoid, but obviously can't always) I like using the uninsulated connectors and appropriate crimping tool, mostly because it is faster. I have the butt connectors in my box and the proper crimpers.

I use this crimping tool for butt and open barrel ring terminals:

https://www.waytekwire.com/item/560/...ng-Tool-Frame/

Using these jaws:

https://www.waytekwire.com/item/563/?utm_source=cat232

That 560 tool also has jaws for Metripack terminals, which I plan to buy:

https://www.waytekwire.com/item/559/?utm_source=cat232

Hope this helps.

Andrew
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Last edited by andrewb70; Apr 7th, 20 at 1:14 PM.
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 20, 1:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Here is a shopping list that I put together for a friend who is about to wire a Holley Terminator X system into his LS swapped second get Trans Am.



Andrew


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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 20, 1:52 PM
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
The simple answer to this is that the battery acts as a source of clean power and acts as a giant capacitor that serves as a buffer against electrical surges and other sources of interference. I was tempted to wire the Sniper ECU to the Bussmann panel, but again, wiring it to the battery is easy insurance against any potential problems.

Andrew
So what's the proper way when you have multiple devices that want to be hooked up to the batttery? Sniper and MSD 6AL would be a common combo. On my car, I wired a fan relay with #30 (fused) is going directly to the battery, since the relay+fan are sitting right next to the battery. I have a dual terminal battery, with the traditional top posts for the starter cable/ground cables and I use the side-posts for these accessories, so I have a couple ring terminals stacked up on my battery, which I'm sure is less than ideal. Just trying to learn how to do stuff better.

-Dave

'70 Chevelle ZZ383/700r4/3.73, [email protected] -- MS3X efi / Hotchkis A-arms & Springs / B-body 12" brakes / 1.25" F-body swaybar / UMI rears & swaybar / JGC PwrStrUpg
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 20, 1:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevelleFan70 View Post
.... I have a dual terminal battery, with the traditional top posts for the starter cable/ground cables and I use the side-posts for these accessories, so I have a couple ring terminals stacked up on my battery, which I'm sure is less than ideal. Just trying to learn how to do stuff better.

-Dave
Dave,

That is exactly how I would do it.

Andrew
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 20, 7:25 PM
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Andrew,
As promised, I have a few questions. But first, here are a few particulars about my set up. Iím going to run a Holley Terminator stealth, which has a couple minor differences with the Holley Sniper. The biggest being the ECU is not in the body of the device. Iím also running an MSD 6AL box, most likely on the firewall above the heater box. The MSD blaster coil will either be on the intake manifold or the firewall. I plan to mount the Terminator ECU the engine bay, at the driver side wheel well, thoughts?

I plan to use the same Eaton Bussman that you detailed. In your description you power one buss with a direct battery feed. In order to make sure I select the correct gauge wire for this, do I add up all the potential loads and then run a line from the battery to the buss? How about a fuse or circuit breaker on this line? Any recommendations? How about sizing this breaker?

The other buss you are powering with a 12v source that is provided in both crank and run. What is the benefit of powering this buss that way? The Terminator has trigger wires for the following; fuel pump and two fan triggers. I planned on powering pin 86 via these triggers. I also figured Iíd wire the second buss as a ground to wire all the pin 85ís to. Thoughts?

My fuel tank mounted pump looks to draw 10amps at 12volts. Iím guessing my 170amp alternator is not going to be stressed so I imagine itís output voltage will be better than that, thus reducing my fuel pump amperage further. Would you recommend running 12gauge wire the 20í to the pump? I plan on running the feed wire along with both the fuel supply and return. What protective covering would you suggest I cover this wire with in order to protect it?

Joe

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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 20, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

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Originally Posted by Kopfjaeger View Post
Andrew,
As promised, I have a few questions. But first, here are a few particulars about my set up. Iím going to run a Holley Terminator stealth, which has a couple minor differences with the Holley Sniper. The biggest being the ECU is not in the body of the device. Iím also running an MSD 6AL box, most likely on the firewall above the heater box. The MSD blaster coil will either be on the intake manifold or the firewall. I plan to mount the Terminator ECU the engine bay, at the driver side wheel well, thoughts?

I plan to use the same Eaton Bussman that you detailed. In your description you power one buss with a direct battery feed. In order to make sure I select the correct gauge wire for this, do I add up all the potential loads and then run a line from the battery to the buss? How about a fuse or circuit breaker on this line? Any recommendations? How about sizing this breaker?

The other buss you are powering with a 12v source that is provided in both crank and run. What is the benefit of powering this buss that way? The Terminator has trigger wires for the following; fuel pump and two fan triggers. I planned on powering pin 86 via these triggers. I also figured Iíd wire the second buss as a ground to wire all the pin 85ís to. Thoughts?

My fuel tank mounted pump looks to draw 10amps at 12volts. Iím guessing my 170amp alternator is not going to be stressed so I imagine itís output voltage will be better than that, thus reducing my fuel pump amperage further. Would you recommend running 12gauge wire the 20í to the pump? I plan on running the feed wire along with both the fuel supply and return. What protective covering would you suggest I cover this wire with in order to protect it?

Joe
Joe,

You have a lot of questions here, and I will attempt tp unpack and answer them the best that I can. If I miss something, please ask again.

The Terminator system that you are using uses the HP ECU, and yes, it is OK to mount it in the engine back. However, whenever possible, I prefer that it is mounted inside the passenger compartment. If you do mount it in the engine bay, make sure that the ECU connectors are facing down.

The main power bus (the one that feeds the fuses) on the Bussmann panel is rated at 80 amps (steady). If it is mounted close to the battery, I would use a 6 gauge wire to feed it (this is what we used on the Chevelle). If the wire is relatively short, there is no need for a large main fuse.

The other bus on the Bussmann panel is configured to trigger the #86 terminals of the relays (this can't be changed.) in your system, there is a green wire that is for the fuel pump. The Holley instructions state that as long as the fuel pump draw is below 15amps, there is no need for a relay. So, I would run the free fuel pump wire to the fuel pump and not use a relay. Because that run will be fairly long, I would use a 10g wire.

With the fuel pump taken care of, we can discuss fan #1 and Fan #2. Those outputs come off the I/O connector in the main harness. Those are configured to be ground triggers. By having the Bussmann panel provide power to the #86 terminals, the ECU will send the ground signals to the fan relays for activation.

For your installation, I would configure the Bussmann panel as follows:

Pink wire from ignition switch feeds the #86 bus on the Bussmann panel.

3 relays total. I would use 35 amp Packer relays (with diode) for all.

Relay 1 (lets call it ignition): #87 terminal feeds both the red/white wire off the Holley ECU and the small red wire off the MSD. #85 terminals needs to be grounded. 25amp fuse. 12 gauge jumper from fuse to #30 terminal.

Relay 2 (fan 1): #87 terminal feeds the + side of the fan motor (12g). #85 terminal goes to the #1 fan output from the ECU. 30amp fuse. 12 gauge jumper from fuse to #30 terminal.

Relay 2 (fan 2): #87 terminal feeds the + side of the fan motor (12g). #85 terminal goes to the #1 fan output from the ECU. 30amp fuse. 12 gauge jumper from fuse to #30 terminal.

I would ground both fans to the battery, or another reliable ground post. Don't combine the fan grounds into one.

For looming the wires, I like the TechFlex split loom. This is what is used on the Holley harness. For tape, I like the Tesa high heat harness tape, or the 3M cotton friction tape that we used on the Chevelle.

I hope that answers all your questions, if not, please ask again.

Andrew


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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 20, 12:32 PM
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

I was having troubles finding really good photos of the bussmann box you linked to. Is it basically a giant empty plastic connector? If you decide you need a fuse or relay you have the pins that you crimp on your wires then shove em into the correct hole in the block? There has to be some internal busses? Is there a diagram of what is bused and what isn't?

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FiTech Go4 600 - Timing control via gutted 7 pin large cap HEI - Fuel RobbMc Powersurge with returns.
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 20, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wiring considerations for Sniper and other EFI systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by 73Eldo View Post
I was having troubles finding really good photos of the bussmann box you linked to. Is it basically a giant empty plastic connector? If you decide you need a fuse or relay you have the pins that you crimp on your wires then shove em into the correct hole in the block? There has to be some internal busses? Is there a diagram of what is bused and what isn't?
https://www.waytekwire.com/item/4634...i-Fuse-Panel-/

These boxes come in a variety of configurations, I like using the one listed above.

As I said before, there are two busses. One feeds the fuses and the other feeds the #86 terminals of the relays.

To get power through a fuse, you simply crimp a terminal to a wire and insert it into the appropriate cavity. The fuse closes the circuit and thus powers whatever you need.

To use a relay, you make a small jumper wire, which is basically a little loop with terminals on each end. You plug one side into a fuse cavity and the other side into the cavity that feeds the #30 terminal of the relay. The fuse closes the circuit to the #30 terminal and the other bus feeds the #86 terminal. You then crimp a terminal to a wire that feeds your device (say fan) and insert it into the cavity for the #87 terminal of the relay. The ECU provides the ground signal, so a terminal is crimped to that wire and inserted into the cavity for the #87 terminal of the relay.

Andrew


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