Is it a Pontiac or not? - Page 6 - Chevelle Tech
Beaumonts & Canadian Built

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post #76 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 09, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfkheat View Post
The point you seem to be missing is that that dash wasn't used in a car until the 1972 model year. If it was used in 1969 there would be other cars with the same dash pad. If you can show me other 1969 Pontiacs or Beaumonts with that pad I'll admit I was wrong and shut up.
James
The guy that used to own the car is neither senile nor a BS'er. He says it was in there, I hav no reason not to believe him. Like I said earlier, when I have time I am going to climb under the dash and see if there is any evidence that it may have been replaced

Terry

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post #77 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 09, 1:06 AM
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfkheat View Post
The point you seem to be missing is that that dash wasn't used in a car until the 1972 model year. If it was used in 1969 there would be other cars with the same dash pad. If you can show me other 1969 Pontiacs or Beaumonts with that pad I'll admit I was wrong and shut up.
James
Well, in 1976 the dealer put a brand new dash in our 1974 Biscayne due to a large crack. That's a 2 year old car getting a new dash at the dealer, and that is my point. In our case they used a current new 1976 dashpad and used spray vinyl to match it to the interior of our car.

Come to think of it they used NOS 1974 seats front and rear to replace the pathetic seats that ripped within 6 months. The replacements ripped within a year despite being very careful. Our '74 Biscayne was a turd, going through 2 complete sets of Uniroyal radials under warranty by 1977. The shocks were bad on the car. The bodyside moldings all drooped and fell off. The dome light fell off when you slammed the trunk. The heater core leaked. The carpet was not laid out properly and had a large wrinkle it it, plus it always was shedding wads of fuzz. The windows would pull out of the tracks at speed. The weatherstripping was not durable. I could go on, but suffice to say that GM lost dad as a customer for life.

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post #78 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 09, 9:44 AM
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

I found a new car ad for a '69 Beaumont. The ad directs you to your nearest PONTIAC dealership.

Similar ads for 64, 65 and 66 tell you to see your ACADIAN dealer..

I haven't found ads for 67 or 68.
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post #79 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 28th, 09, 10:57 AM
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Didn't sunbeam alpine come with a 289 v8? Does that make it a ford? Didn't the jeep use a chevy 6 in it. That doesn't make it a chevy. To my way of thinking, as others have said, it is what it is no matter what name you want to put on it and nomatter who sold it. If it's tagged a Beaumont @POS it's a Beaumont ( made in America and assembled in Canada) IMO.

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post #80 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 28th, 09, 5:58 PM
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Remember the flap in the '80s when GM started installing engines from different divisions in different cars?... Olds 307's in Caprices, Buick 231's in everything, Chev 350's in anything? Then they came up with the brilliant "GM Corporate Engines" legaleze and covered their butts with "Engine may be produced by different division than vehicle name".

Vega/Astre & Apollo/Nova/Ventura are combo cars. Virtually identical except for cosmetics & badging.


Oh, does anyone complain that they have a "Fisher" body on their Chevrolet car?... (we're all actually driving "Fishers" with Chevrolet drivetrains) Is it a Fisher or a Chevrolet?

A Beaumont is the model name of a GM vehicle marketed by the Acadian Division, that was sold in Canada by Acadian Dealers (who in many cases also had the Pontiac line), that was built from various parts in the GM mid-size car line..... how confusing is that?


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post #81 of 313 (permalink) Old May 17th, 09, 11:39 AM
 
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

My grandfather bought his Beaumont new at a Pontiac dealership in 69.
I bought my 68 post coupe 20yrs ago and the ownership says Pontiac.

Several years ago when Beaumonts were not well known and actually scrapped for not being Chevelles I did some research to find some OEM old stock parts. I spoke with the service manager from our local BOP dealer and he pointed me to some good sources. During our conversations I asked him what was with the Beaumont being a Pontiac?
This was his answer.
Pontiac Canada bought Chevy Chevelle bodies and then refit them under special order through Pontiac with Lemans interiors. Because the Interiors were the last thing put into the car they were sold through Pontiac dealerships. Acadians were birthed the same way. Even the 79-83 Acadian (Chevette body) was birthed through the same mechanisms.
So to make a long story short you have a really nice hybrid with an official Pontiac badge but has Chevy origins.

Funny… no one disputes the Chevette Acadian heritage? It too had a chevy engine.
Jim
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post #82 of 313 (permalink) Old May 17th, 09, 11:49 AM
 
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Now here are some fighting words

I spoke with a pontiac mechanic who worked on Beaumonts and he will sware on a Bible that the 1968 SD 396 Beaumont had more horsepower than the 68 Chevelle SS 396.

His explination had to do with Emissions. He said that Canada adpoted the Emission laws one year later than the US. So the emissions were not hindering the Canadian side.

Now I believe from my research that the EGR valve was the only emmision requirements back then and that it was esstablished in 69 not 68.
So I am unsure to the validity of his statement.
Does anyone know?
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post #83 of 313 (permalink) Old May 17th, 09, 1:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68Beaumopostcoupe View Post
Now here are some fighting words

I spoke with a pontiac mechanic who worked on Beaumonts and he will sware on a Bible that the 1968 SD 396 Beaumont had more horsepower than the 68 Chevelle SS 396.

His explination had to do with Emissions. He said that Canada adpoted the Emission laws one year later than the US. So the emissions were not hindering the Canadian side.

Now I believe from my research that the EGR valve was the only emmision requirements back then and that it was esstablished in 69 not 68.
So I am unsure to the validity of his statement.
Does anyone know?
Hi Jim and welcome to TC. I don't understand his thinking. If there were chevelles and beaumonts both being built in Canada then would not the 396's all have come from the same engine plant

Terry

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post #84 of 313 (permalink) Old May 17th, 09, 2:37 PM
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68Beaumopostcoupe View Post
Now here are some fighting words

I spoke with a pontiac mechanic who worked on Beaumonts and he will sware on a Bible that the 1968 SD 396 Beaumont had more horsepower than the 68 Chevelle SS 396.

His explination had to do with Emissions. He said that Canada adpoted the Emission laws one year later than the US. So the emissions were not hindering the Canadian side.

Now I believe from my research that the EGR valve was the only emmision requirements back then and that it was esstablished in 69 not 68.
So I am unsure to the validity of his statement.
Does anyone know?
GM Canada was using the same emissions equipment at that time both north and south of the border. It is true that the official emissions requirements did lag in Canada sometimes (even into the 1980s), although we got catalytic converters for 1975 as well. Importing a new car from France or Britain into the 1970s was nothing. Today though it is much different. We have government agencies that need to exert force in order to justify their own existence. Import a car from the U.S. is impractical now because of the little requirements in place. They even want to bring in California emissions requirements (why on earth? California has specific local geographical reasons for having the most stringent emissions requirements on earth).


As far as the Beaumont having more power than the Chevelle, false! They never offered a solid lifter 375-horse 396 in the Beaumont, but you could order one in a Chevelle and have it built in the U.S. for a local Canadian dealer.

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post #85 of 313 (permalink) Old May 20th, 09, 11:28 PM
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

As to the emission controls. I recently bought a Canadian Malibu 307 PG. One thing I found unusual - the engine bay is completely devoid on any emissions equipment, even though the car was made to be imported into the U.S. A. It was sold new in Des Moines Iowa. Exhaust manifolds have NO provision for an A.I.R. system. Car has 65,000 original miles and looks completely stock. Engine is the original one and has Made in Canada parts on it, too! (cast into the intake manifold) K on the engine block ID indicates a Canadian engine.

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post #86 of 313 (permalink) Old May 21st, 09, 3:59 PM
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

To start off with the dash and the glove box both look like they have the same fade on them and discoloration. And also it does not look like someone ever chamged that somewhere down the road. There is Beaumont's in florida with a Pontiac factory emblem so don't let them fool you they did put there emblem on them.
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post #87 of 313 (permalink) Old May 21st, 09, 7:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

[QUOTE=Cam;2326222]Well, in 1976 the dealer put a brand new dash in our 1974 Biscayne due to a large crack. That's a 2 year old car getting a new dash at the dealer, and that is my point. QUOTE]

Sorry Cam, I just noticed you posted this last month. I am going to print this real slowly... So you please read it real slowly so you understand!! LOL . You said your car got a new dash at 2 years old. Fine! Well this car had this dash in it when it was ONE year old (1970). Now, if that dash is from a 1972 le mans, please explain to me how it got into the 1969 car in 1970? If anyone has an explanation, I am all ears.

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post #88 of 313 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 09, 10:51 AM
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

With all due respect, you are the one claiming the 1972 dash was installed in the car in 1970. I would think it is up to you to prove it happened that way. Previous owners claiming the dash was installed in 1970 doesn't prove it happened. Just my opinion.
James
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post #89 of 313 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 09, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfkheat View Post
With all due respect, you are the one claiming the 1972 dash was installed in the car in 1970. I would think it is up to you to prove it happened that way. Previous owners claiming the dash was installed in 1970 doesn't prove it happened. Just my opinion.
James
Well lets re-hash the facts for a moment. Kevins Dad bought this car in 1970 and brought it here to Port Hardy in 1970 and that dash was in there then. Having a dash changed would not be a small thing and I would think he would recall if it did happen. He is not a BS'r nor is his memory gone. And dems da facts. Not opinions, or guesses. Facts. I was not the first to say it was a dash from a 72 lemans. Someone else did and showed a picture and I agreed it looked the same. So how the heck did it get in there in 1970? We are not assuming it was, we know it was. Maybe they made that dash for 69 Beaumonts and decided to re-use the tooling for a Lemans in 72 since they were not making Beaumonts anymore. I know, a huge stretch to say the least but stranger things have happened. You see, I am still of the opinion that a Beaumont is a Pontiac. Some say that there was never Pontiac written on a Beaumont anywhere. I showed the picture of this dash to say, I think there was. I say that this dash was in there in 1970 and it is not up to me to prove it. I have given all the evidence I can. I think it is up to the doubters to prove it was not. Prove to me that dash was not built in 1969.
Don't just say, It could not have been because that dash was not produced until 1972. Thats not proof. It may well have been produced here in Canada where Beaumonts were assembled but not in the U.S. until 1972.

Terry

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post #90 of 313 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 09, 1:09 PM
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Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

There were 12,982 Beaumonts built in 1969. Show me another one with the same dash and I'll admit I was wrong.
James

Edit; Chevy VINs start with a 1, Pontiac VINS start with a 2 and Beaumont VINs start with a 7. If they are Pontiacs why would the VIN not start with a 2 like the other Pontiacs?
James
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