Is it a Pontiac or not? - Page 5 - Chevelle Tech
Beaumonts & Canadian Built

 54Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #61 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 20th, 09, 9:32 PM
Team Member
Paul
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingston Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,505
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66 Beau View Post
ak
Not sure if the Canso was a specific model of the Acadian or if all Nova-based Acadians were Canso's.

You would think the history would be pretty well known, but I hear lots of versions.

Thanks
Wes
My brother owned an Acadian Invader (chevy 11 style), so I think Canso was a higher trim level than an Invader.

Paul
prefectca is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 09, 11:06 AM
Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: somewhere in BC
Posts: 149
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Just to add fuel to the fire, my 1967 sales brochure doesn't have the words "Pontiac" or "Acadian" on it. It merely lists "General Motors Products of Canada, Limited, Oshawa, Ontario".

The standard engines are:
230ci Econoflame 6 (140hp)
283ci Econoflame 8 (195hp)
396 Econo-jet 8 (325hp)

With a few other GM engine options.
The bottom line is that the only thing Pontiac about this car is the fact that they used the LeMans dash and sold them in Pontiac dealers. The car is a GM Canada product, with no ties to Pontiac outside of the dealer network.

If there was a Beaumont on a Honda dealership lot, would that make it a Honda?
GLHS60 likes this.

67' Beaumont - "the driving project"
06' Subaru STi - "the fast car"
hypa is offline  
post #63 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 09, 9:49 PM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,331
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Yup! I'm with Hypa, 100%... i know fishhead is just bored and trying to stir up some debate, all good...

Fishhead the 'vintage' docs I'm refering to, are not 'vintage'... they come from GM Vintage Vehicle services which provides a documenting service, it is a reasonably official peice of documentation which is printed more recently, it is not from the 'era' ... it is a great peice of paper, even though George does list it as a pontiac, since it documents the cars option list, body style (ie. SD or not for example) and engine build date and codes as well, which really puts a cramp on counterfeiters...

this really isnt a debate at all, its not subjective...its a bit cloudy, but the cars are what they are, they are not pontiacs. if they were they would say pontiac on them, and on the literature. and if they were/are, it doesnt really matter. In some ways gm was kinda foolish to not make them a pontiac or a chevy, they lost a lot brand recognition by trying to create something new, and thats not easy to do.

ak
GLHS60 likes this.
ak 67SD is offline  
 
post #64 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 09, 3:41 PM
Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: somewhere in BC
Posts: 149
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

I love the debate.


At least until I get the cash together for the next modification. Then we can talk tech again, hehe.
hypa is offline  
post #65 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 09, 10:09 PM
Tech Team
tommy
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ont can
Posts: 274
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

call it a ; g.m beauvelle-iac . covers it all !


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cheveezies is offline  
post #66 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 09, 9:05 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
Shane
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: N.E.Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,865
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak 67SD View Post
Yup! I'm with Hypa, 100%... i know fishhead is just bored and trying to stir up some debate, all good...

Fishhead the 'vintage' docs I'm refering to, are not 'vintage'... they come from GM Vintage Vehicle services which provides a documenting service, it is a reasonably official peice of documentation which is printed more recently, it is not from the 'era' ... it is a great peice of paper, even though George does list it as a pontiac, since it documents the cars option list, body style (ie. SD or not for example) and engine build date and codes as well, which really puts a cramp on counterfeiters...
I know...thats why I should have stated..."I cant imagine a FACTUAL Dcoument would have information on it like that..." Which leads me to say again...Why cant they just admit it is or isnt? Seems like they have no?

Quote:
this really isnt a debate at all, its not subjective...its a bit cloudy, but the cars are what they are, they are not pontiacs.
You say.
Quote:
if they were they would say pontiac on them, and on the literature. and if they were/are
There has been proof of this, but the people that dont want them to be, say they arent and wont believe it. So yes, it is a debate and I am not going to change my mind just because you say so. Theres been more proof that they are then they arent.

Quote:
it doesnt really matter. In some ways gm was kinda foolish to not make them a pontiac or a chevy, they lost a lot brand recognition by trying to create something new, and thats not easy to do.
There is no loss of brand recognition. Most people think they are Pontiacs.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

New oil is cheaper than new parts
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fishhead is offline  
post #67 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 09, 2:05 PM
Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: somewhere in BC
Posts: 149
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
So yes, it is a debate and I am not going to change my mind just because you say so.
Believe what you want. Some people believe aliens gave us the pyramids. Some people believe that multiple wives is the right way. Some people believe that front wheel drive is the penultimate performance driveline.

Bottom line, you can believe what you want, and it's no skin off my nuts. If you want to believe that the sea is made of jello, so be it. As far as I'm concerned, that's about as asinine an argument, as this one has become.

67' Beaumont - "the driving project"
06' Subaru STi - "the fast car"
hypa is offline  
post #68 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 09, 7:53 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Shane
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: N.E.Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,865
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

First I would start posting proof that it ISNT a Ponitac...
Second I would start emailing everyone including the repo people that they really ARENT selling Pontiac parts
Third I would like to see a Pontiac Pontiac...

and forth...

Quote:
Believe what you want. Some people believe aliens gave us the pyramids. Some people believe that multiple wives is the right way. Some people believe that front wheel drive is the penultimate performance driveline.

Bottom line, you can believe what you want, and it's no skin off my nuts. If you want to believe that the sea is made of jello, so be it. As far as I'm concerned, that's about as asinine an argument, as this one has become.
this is something we agree on...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

New oil is cheaper than new parts
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fishhead is offline  
post #69 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 09, 10:03 PM
Tech Team
Wes
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 236
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

AT the risk of dragging this on forever.

Here's a couple scans from my Owner's Manual:
Front Cover:


Back Cover:


And Welcome page (Inside cover)


Notice the Pontiac reference on the covers and frequent reference to Pontiac and Pontiac dealerships ..... not .....

I think it's pretty clearly an ACADIAN Beaumont.

Not an Acadian Acadian or Beaumont Beaumont or a Pontiac anything - although it was in fact purchased originally at a Pontiac Acadian Buick GM Truck Dealership, so I imagine there might be the odd person who would call it a Buick Beaumont.

Wes

Last edited by 66 Beau; Apr 25th, 09 at 10:23 PM.
66 Beau is offline  
post #70 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 09, 12:01 PM
Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: somewhere in BC
Posts: 149
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Sadly, I don't think it's going to matter anymore.


DETROIT According to a source at General Motors, the company will announce next Monday its new "faster, deeper" reorganization plan, which will likely include a death sentence for the Pontiac brand.


http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...mktid=cj260233


67' Beaumont - "the driving project"
06' Subaru STi - "the fast car"
hypa is offline  
post #71 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 09, 1:12 PM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium Member
Terry
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 2,663
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

It would be niice to have a 100% confirmation but I don't think we will ever get that. But the one thing that bothers me just a little bit is the fact that those of you that don't think it's a Pontiac, or don't want it to be a Pontiac, (the "naysayers" so to speak,)
chose to over look or ignore some of the things that say it may be. The biggest example is the dash I took a photo of that clearly says PONTIAC on it. We find out that it is identical to a 1972 Lemans dash. But here is the kicker. That dash was in there prior to 1971! So if the second owner of that car says he never replaced the dash and he owned the car in 71, them please explain to me how that 1972 lemans dash got into that car.

Terry

ACES # 5021
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
bcice is offline  
post #72 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 09, 1:52 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
James
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Laurens, South Carolina
Posts: 4,208
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Sometimes people forget things. I know I can't remember every thing I've done in the last 40 years. If that dash is original to the car show us another 1969 Beaumont or LeMans with the same dash. Post a picture of the dash on Performance Years, the Pontiac site, and ask what it originally came out of.
James

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/

1968 Beaumont SD396
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1968 El Camino
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


ACES #7986
jfkheat is offline  
post #73 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 09, 2:40 PM
Tech Team
Wes
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 236
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

BCICE

Believe it or not I am actually not disagreeing with you. As I understand it, Acadian Motors was discontinued in late '60's. (This may have occurred in 1969 at which time GM Canada reports:

"Major operating subsidiaries of GM Corporation in Canada consolidated to form General Motors of Canada Limited with head office in Oshawa"

The Beaumont may have officially been a Pontiac product after Acadian was no more - which could explain your dash. It also just adds to the confusion.

I don't have access to the same level of documentation for a '69+ Beaumont, but for the time prior to the dissolution of Acadian Motors, I am absolutely convinced that the Beaumont and Acadian were not Pontiacs. Based on the documentation I do have (for the '66) it seems clear that GM Canada was not marketing this car as a Pontiac and I have seen many references to the Acadian Division of GM Canada.

I am pretty sure the Owner's Manual and Warranty info for any 1966 Pontiac would be telling you to take your car back to your Pontiac Dealer.

I will agree that almost everyone calls them Pontiac Beaumonts. But then I go to the store & buy Kleenex, Varsol or Aspirin - all of which are tradenames and the package I pull off the shelf does not actually use those names. I would not be surprised if the confusion started at the dealers themselves because no one had heard of the Acadian Division.

Wes
66 Beau is offline  
post #74 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 09, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium Member
Terry
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 2,663
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfkheat View Post
Sometimes people forget things. I know I can't remember every thing I've done in the last 40 years. If that dash is original to the car show us another 1969 Beaumont or LeMans with the same dash. Post a picture of the dash on Performance Years, the Pontiac site, and ask what it originally came out of.
James

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/
James, with all due respect. only someone that was going senile would not remember replacing a dashboard and I can assure you he is not senile. Why would anyone replace a dash that was only a year or 2 old? A wiring fire perhaps? I think he would have remembered a fire.

Terry

ACES # 5021
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
bcice is offline  
post #75 of 313 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 09, 12:18 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
James
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Laurens, South Carolina
Posts: 4,208
Re: Is it a Pontiac or not?

The point you seem to be missing is that that dash wasn't used in a car until the 1972 model year. If it was used in 1969 there would be other cars with the same dash pad. If you can show me other 1969 Pontiacs or Beaumonts with that pad I'll admit I was wrong and shut up.
James
GLHS60 likes this.

1968 Beaumont SD396
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1968 El Camino
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


ACES #7986
jfkheat is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This Thread is more than 1162 days old. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
If you still feel it is necessary to make a new reply, you can still do so though.

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome