Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist - Page 5 - Chevelle Tech
What's it worth? & ebay/online sales discussions

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post #61 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 6th, 19, 9:12 AM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

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Originally Posted by Dean View Post
I think you're right, now that you refreshed my memory Troy, but it does prove that someone will pay more for something than it's worth, (a lot more).

There are people who will pay what ever it takes, but these are the stipulations

!. Must be original, no restorations
2. Must have original paint
3. Must be a rare model, Example: this particular person I'am taking about isn't going to get excited over a LS6 car, a Z-16 probably.
4. Helps to have other billionaires trying to buy the same car

And this person isn't really a car guy, has over 200 very rare surviviors put away which no one will ever see for a long time, when the car cover goes on this owner will never see the car again himself, very sad. From what I've seen these deals do not happen at auctions, but originate at the MCCACN car show in November in Chicago.
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post #62 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 6th, 19, 9:11 PM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

Unfortunately I made a deal on another Z16 project car literally the day before this one hit the internet. I tried to pass that deal along to someone else, in favor of switching to try to get this one due to its very very interesting story, but looks like that is not going to be in the cards!

This blue one is definitely real, and as I said has a really interesting story. But not my story to tell, so I'll leave that for the next owner to post! (If he or she chooses to share.) Hopefully it ends up with a good new caretaker and gets restored to match the car's unique story and not how it was delivered from the factory.

As to Z16 special parts and cost of a restoration, there's a lot more to it than meets the eye. The following parts ONLY came on Z16's (or on Z16's and a limited number of other models, as indicated):

Certain parts of the body cowl sheet metal are different from any other 65 Chevelle.
Frame - It is not just a 65 Chevelle convertible frame as people often say. There are other differences and it has its own part number.
Rear axle - including the housing and the axles (it is not just the 11" Impala brakes that are different).
Lower rear control arms. They are not the same as later years F41 boxed lower arms.
Rear sway bar. It is not the same as later years F41 rear bars.
Front upper ball joints
Front spindles
Front brake backing plates
Front wheel hubs
Front brake drums
Front sway bar
Front sway bar bushings
Wheels
Power steering box
Power steering brackets - they are very slightly different from 66. But also used on 65 Impala big blocks, so can be found
Fender bracket for Power steering reservoir
Radiator
Fan shroud
Upper radiator hose (shared with 65 L78 full size cars)
Lower radiator hose
Firewall wiring harness
Positive battery cable
Distributor
Air cleaner base (shared with 65 L78 full size cars and 66 L72 full size cars)
Air cleaner emblem
Carburetor
Intake - same as 65 L78 full size and Vette, but very early intakes (which is what you need for any correct Z16 engine) have a different casting number format than the later 65 intakes, and are very hard to find.
Choke pipes (both)
Fuel lines (same as 65 L78 full size and Vette, but Z16 is chrome plated).
Vacuum advance pipe (ditto)
PCV pipe (ditto)
Dipstick (ditto)
Timing chain cover (same as 65 L78 full size and Vette, but completely different from a 66)
Balancer - used on other 65-66 solid lifter big blocks, but different from 67 and later 8" balancers.
Water pump pulley - only shared with 67 Chevelle L78's, and the 65's are made a little different from the 67's so technically they are Z16-only.
Crank pulley - only shared with 65-66 L78/L72 full size, 66 Chevelle L78, and 67 solid lifter big blocks with PS.
Alternator pulley - only shared with 65-67 solid lifter big blocks, and 67 Z28
Alternator brackets - they are different from 66+.
Oil pan
Exhaust manifolds
Tailpipes and tailpipe hangers
Bellhousing (same as 65 409 full size)
Transmission - there is some conflicting info here. There was a special part number in the AIM but it is showed as cancelled before Z16 production actually started. So I am not sure that unit was actually ever used in production.
Driveshaft (heavier than a 65 small block shaft)
Gas tank sending unit
Speedo cluster
FM radio (available on other 65 Chevelles but very few were ordered, and it is a very expensive part)
Multiplex - contrary to popular belief these are Z16 specific. Not the same as an Impala or a 66 Chevelle. A real original Z16 MPX will actually have a blank Delco Radio Model # sticker with a hand-written number on it!
Multiplex mounting bracket
Kick panel speaker grills
Remote mirror (available on other 65 Chevelles but few were ordered, and it is a very expensive part. And contrary to popular belief certain components of the mirror do not interchange with a 66 remote mirror)
Rear trim (obviously)
Decklid (you could weld all the holes shut on a regular decklid but it would be a challenge to grind the back side down and metal finish all those holes up inside the inner liner structure without someone with an eye for detail being able to tell).

And I am sure there are other trinkets I am forgetting.

Then add the fact that they were all (except the prototype) built at the KC plant, which means that to do one "right" you need to get all hardware that has the correct head markings and finishes for late Feb - early April built KC Chevelles, and hood hinges and hood latch with the AVM manufacturer's stamp that was on all 65 KC Chevelles but not on east cost built cars, and various other KC-specific details.

So the intricacies (and cost) are never ending!! Especially if you try to use only NOS parts wherever possible.

Jeff Helms
-65 Z16 Survivor (Red/black/white int.) (
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-65 Z16 drag car, unrestored (Red/Red)
-65 SS Convertible (Red)
-65 300 2-dr Wagon, Modified (Tuxedo Black)

-66 SS L78 Coupe (Marina Blue), unrestored
-66 SS L34/M20 Survivor Coupe (Aztec Bronze) - 'Vintage Legend' Certified (
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-67 SS L78 Survivor Coupe (Grenada Gold)
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-67 ElCamino L35/M20 (Butternut Yellow)
-67 Concours Station Wagon (Mountain Green)

-67 Camaro SS350 Survivor (Grenada Gold)- 'Vintage Legend' Certified by the American Camaro Association
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post #63 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 6th, 19, 9:30 PM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

Holy crap! Is that all Jeff? That is why you are the expert. I just saw tonight a 65 on E-bay that the seller claims is a one of two prototypes. Tell us about the one you just bought.
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post #64 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 7th, 19, 7:51 AM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

I'm curious about the trans?I remember reading somewhere what was special about the Z16 trans,maybe it was in a post on this site? If someone knows,please share the info and the source.
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post #65 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 7th, 19, 9:21 AM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

Thanx for the update Jeff. I'm sure most if not all of the Z16 have very interesting backgrounds. Remember the crazy turbo/rearend or whatever that thing was? Was that a yellow car?
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post #66 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 7th, 19, 9:23 AM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevycollecter View Post
Holy crap! Is that all Jeff? That is why you are the expert. I just saw tonight a 65 on E-bay that the seller claims is a one of two prototypes. Tell us about the one you just bought.
kinda wonder about that one.for 100k you would think it would have the original rear end,not a ford.and the frame would not be body color.
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post #67 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 8th, 19, 10:18 PM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevycollecter View Post
I just saw tonight a 65 on E-bay that the seller claims is a one of two prototypes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokeepeople View Post
kinda wonder about that one.for 100k you would think it would have the original rear end,not a ford.and the frame would not be body color.

That car is no more a Z16 than my girlfriend's Toyota is!! Those idiots trying to sell it apparently think that the 138 and the Z16 in the VIN means it was a Z16. That's just a Fremont SS vin number that just happens to have a 6 as the next digit after the Z1. So there are 9,999 other 1965 cars from Fremont that also have Z16 in their VIN!! Not to mention the August trim tag date which makes it about 6 months too early to be a Z16. Some people just need to stay off the internet!


Quote:
Originally Posted by cheveslakr View Post
Thanx for the update Jeff. I'm sure most if not all of the Z16 have very interesting backgrounds. Remember the crazy turbo/rearend or whatever that thing was? Was that a yellow car?

Yes the Turbonique (sp??) car was yellow. It was rolled over in an accident during one of Chitwood's shows. I have seen pics of it with the top of the back end of the driver's quarter squished and the roof pushed over towards the passenger side. Easily worth fixing by today's standards for a rare car, but back then it was not worth the work. So story goes the drivetrain was removed and the rest was sent to a salvage yard somewhere in Florida.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevycollecter View Post
Tell us about the one you just bought.

Let's wait til I get it home and title in hand! Getting it sometime in March. Takes about 2 months now to get a title in my state on an old car from out-of-state.
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post #68 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 19, 10:40 AM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

With all the tooling for special parts and short production runs, GM must have lost money on every one of the 201 cars sold.
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post #69 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 19, 11:23 AM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

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Originally Posted by novadude View Post
With all the tooling for special parts and short production runs, GM must have lost money on every one of the 201 cars sold.
they where testing the waters so to speak. its been said they been losing money on Corvette production for years but make it up on there other flag ship lines. so I would think that would be the same back then. there bread and butter was four door sedans not muscle cars

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post #70 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 19, 2:59 PM
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While the Z16 discussion is going on I just thought I'd chime in. In 1965 a friend of mine was working and living in Minneapolis,he bought a new Madeira Maroon "65" Malibu SS,300 HP 327 from Jay Kline Chevrolet.Two weeks or so later he said they had a Regal Red Z16 on the lot which he said he probably would have bought if it was there earlier.Just curious if anybody from that area and era remembers the car and who may have purchased it and any history or stories about it?
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post #71 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 19, 4:01 PM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

Jeff, how much of this blue one is original compared to your massive list that you posted. Engine, trans, rearend? Still original?

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post #72 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 19, 11:18 AM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1965_ss View Post
Jeff, how much of this blue one is original compared to your massive list that you posted. Engine, trans, rearend? Still original?
Someone's thinking about buying it.
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post #73 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 19, 11:53 AM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_66SS View Post
saw this one sell last jan
1965 CHEVROLET CHEVELLE MALIBU SS Z16

$242,000
Concours condition? They obviously left out the pristine engine. Lol

'66 SS Chevelle

bored small big block
performance to be determined.
91 octane special.
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post #74 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 19, 10:28 PM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

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Originally Posted by Stokerboats View Post
Concours condition? They obviously left out the pristine engine. Lol
For that money, I would like to see the engine internals.

Just like an LS-6, a L-78 is a very specific engine manufactured from specific parts. That includes the Block, heads, valves, springs, intake, carburetor, distributor, pistons, rods, crank, bearings, (brand),oil pump, timing chain, harmonic balancer, flywheel, nuts bolts, and anything else that was on a real L-78.

This old 375 HP 396 is not necessarily a L-78.

Of course, we all know few do this. The purist will scream about a clamp on a radiator hose and never consider the rods might not have the correct OEM rod bolts.

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post #75 of 80 (permalink) Old Feb 10th, 19, 10:52 PM
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Re: Alleged 65 Z-16 on Craigslist

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Originally Posted by Stokerboats View Post
Concours condition? They obviously left out the pristine engine. Lol

Jeff, in reference to this post, what is your opinion on high pedigree engines such as the LS-6 and L-78 being an actual LS-6 and L-78 with all OEM parts?

We see purist get all upset about air cleaners and radiator hoses (superficial parts), while never thinking the Rods might not have the correct Rod Bolts. (Just an example).
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