PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic w/ Engine Braking Driving Videos - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 10th, 09, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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Shafi
 
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PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic w/ Engine Braking Driving Videos

Hi Folks,

Last year, we debuted two new options for our A-41 line of automatic overdrive transmissions: Engine Braking and Paddle Shifting. These features take the 4L60/65/70E family of transmission to a new level. Whether you do autocrossing, street/strip or just all around fun, this product technology will add to your driving performance and satisfaction.

We have
- of the Driving video live on YouTube. It's a short 2min30sec overview of our automatic transmission, the A-41 which is a derivative of the 4L60/65/70E Hydramatic family. It has in-car video of the product and covers the technical aspects of the product and how to drive with the Paddle Shifter.

Driving Video Part 2 - Paddle Shift Mode , is complete and will be live shortly. I will update this thread with the link when available.

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Enjoy!

Shafi Keisler, pres.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 09, 3:47 PM Thread Starter
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Shafi
 
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PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic Driving Video: PART 2 LIVE

Hi Folks,

Here is

Watch it in HQ (High Quality) mode using the button next to the volume control.

Enjoy
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 09, 5:26 PM
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Re: PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic w/ Engine Braking Driving Videos

look very interesting, to bad it is out of my price range.
car sounds and seems to run pretty good though


aaron

1971 Chevelle: L96 6.0, 232/244 cam, t56, 411's, 460whp/430wq...still trying for 11's.. 12.3 @ 115 1.89 60'
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 09, 5:54 PM
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Re: PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic w/ Engine Braking Driving Videos

What is the price range?

I saw the paddle shifter was $700 (I think), but no prices listed for the trans kit...

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 09, 2:11 AM
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Re: PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic w/ Engine Braking Driving Videos

Ive yet to see an aftermarket or OEM manumatic that doesnt have a very noticeable amount of lag between when you hit the paddle and when the trans actually shifts. Im wondering, is there a way to set this up that is closer to a DSG in terms of shift quality? Ive driven BMWs and Audis with this setup and it is heaven. I know the trannies used in those cars are totally different beasts than a torque converter auto but theres gotta be some way to get the shifts to change when you hit the paddle, not a second after. IMO a paddle shifter is worthless when you cant have the correct gear engaged precisely when you need it. For example, on a road course going through a chicane you may need to down shift after the first part of the ess but the car definitely needs to be in the lower gear before you apex the turn. If it take a second or even a half second you could have completely exited the second part of the ess before you were in the right gear, costing you time and speed out of the turn. I like the converter staying locked up for engine braking but beyond this I dont see it as anything more than a novelty. Correct me if Im wrong but I dont see this being useful on any road course and certainly not on a fast multi gear autocross track, it just doesnt shift fast enough.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 09, 2:31 AM
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Neal
 
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Re: PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic w/ Engine Braking Driving Videos

Matty B I think you would find the shifts you are looking for with a 6L80 or 6L90 variant. How long before we see some paddle shifted 6L trannies Shafi? Don't mean to discredit what you have done with the 4L60 stuff its definitely cool!

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 09, 11:35 AM
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Re: PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic w/ Engine Braking Driving Videos

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1966_L78 View Post
What is the price range?

I saw the paddle shifter was $700 (I think), but no prices listed for the trans kit...
PM sent.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 09, 5:56 PM
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Re: PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic w/ Engine Braking Driving Videos

Quote:
Originally Posted by pist0lpete View Post
Matty B I think you would find the shifts you are looking for with a 6L80 or 6L90 variant. How long before we see some paddle shifted 6L trannies Shafi? Don't mean to discredit what you have done with the 4L60 stuff its definitely cool!
I have yet to drive a c6 vette with the 6l80 in it but if the shifts are near instantaneous then yes thats what I personally am looking for. Sucks how big the thing is though and to my understanding it isnt electronically compatible with gen3 PCMs which also sucks. The size I can deal with but if even I cant figure out the elctronic side then Im staying away from it till someone else messes up a few lol
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 09, 6:04 PM
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Neal
 
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Re: PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic w/ Engine Braking Driving Videos

Don't get me wrong you won't see 60ms shifts like the Ferrari 599xx but it should be much quicker than a 4L variant. However, having to switch computers makes it not worth it to me either that requires changing to a Gen IV reluctor wheel and cam sensor etc...

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 09, 6:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic w/ Engine Braking Driving Videos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty B View Post
Ive yet to see an aftermarket or OEM manumatic that doesnt have a very noticeable amount of lag between when you hit the paddle and when the trans actually shifts. Im wondering, is there a way to set this up that is closer to a DSG in terms of shift quality? Ive driven BMWs and Audis with this setup and it is heaven. I know the trannies used in those cars are totally different beasts than a torque converter auto but theres gotta be some way to get the shifts to change when you hit the paddle, not a second after. <snip> ...
I like the converter staying locked up for engine braking but beyond this I dont see it as anything more than a novelty. Correct me if Im wrong but I dont see this being useful on any road course and certainly not on a fast multi gear autocross track, it just doesnt shift fast enough.
Hi Matty B,

First, thanks for contributing to the discussion. I want more questions thrown out here. I'll address a few points:

1) shift speed - from the time you tap the paddle to the time the command is sent to the transmission is less than 50milliseconds, or .05 sec. The remainder of the latency, or lag, is the transmission to react in accordance to the parameters we give it for shift speed. So, it is partially dependent on how hard you are willing to work the transmission. The tradeoff is speed vs. longevity.
We are checking to see how fast we can make the shift. BUT, that being said, as you can see in the video part 2, the transmission reaction versus my input is quite short. I could probably check it in the audio track versus video timing marker, but let's see what our other info tells us first.

2) DSG vs Hydraulic transmission - the DSG is light years ahead of the hydraulic transmissions, in terms of reaction, efficiency, pleasure to drive, etc. I would love to have a DSG in our bag of goodies, but that technology is quite a few years away for the aftermarket, and will be expensive if it ever reaches because the controls of this transmission are highly integrated with the engine computer. The discussion of DSG/DCT could take this entire forum and then some. Let's just hope that one day we are lucky enough to drive a muscle car with a DCT 7 speed.
If you are, the first car will be a Corvette, which has been fully tested with a DCT.

3) Engine Braking - it's not a torque converter thing, although that does give you maximum engine braking. It is the elimination of the free wheeling clutch operation in 1st, 2nd, 3rd. We do lockup the TCC, but not until 42mph I think.

4) Novelty - well, yes! It is novel ... it's killer! Like a lot of the stuff we cram on our restomods these days. But with that said, it is far quicker shifting than taking your hand off the wheel and shifting the automatic gear lever. And it allows you to keep your hand on the wheel.

Being a pretty decent stick shift driver with good reaction times, I am not nothing but impressed with the shift speed and reaction of the Engine Braking and Paddle Shifter system, as we ship it, right out of the box.

Perhaps could some of you come to our facility in the Knoxville area, and we take the car out for a jaunt? I'm open to that, or having a demo session in Road Atlanta.

Shafi
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 09, 10:27 PM
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Re: PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic w/ Engine Braking Driving Videos

Thanks for responding. As far a shift speed goes this isnt directed just at you Ive just et to see a hydraulic auto that shifts when you press the button to shift. My experiences with it are on a tiptronic VW GTI, Infinity G35, tiptronic Porsche Boxster as well as a paddle shifted 4l60e 68 camaro. The VW and Infinity I owned (they were the ex's car I like manuals) and both were noticably slow to react to shift inputs. You would have to time your shifting at redline sometime a 1000 rpm early in order to get it to shift correctly. It was such a hassle I said forget it and left it in auto.

I had the pleasure of driving the DSG style cars and WOW when they say it shifts in 50 milliseconds it goes from gear to gear that fast, its like the smoothest sequential trans youve ever driven since it doesnt jerk or pause or anything, for everyone out there you must experience one of these transmissions, they make having an "automatic" fun again. I know that you just really arent gonna get that with a normal automatic transmission, the whole design of the DSG trannies is like you said in a different ball park if not a different game altogether. What I was commenting on was if theres anyway to emulate it a bit closer than what Ive experienced with the regular manumatics? You bring up the issue of parts durabilty making it shift faster so Ill ask how fast can you get it to react regardless of parts longetivity? I ask this cause if it means I gotta rebuild a trans after 50k miles instead of 100k or more I think Id be willing to accept the trade offs. If however we're talking that you can make the shifts lightning quick as soon as you hit the paddle but itll only last 5-10k then I wouldnt bother.

As far as novelty I didnt mean that as an insult at all, I think your shifter is pretty cool with the readout setup to display more than just gear position. I called it a novelty in the sense that if you are competetively racing your car at say an autocross or solo1 or maybe even some HPDE and you are worried about 10ths or more of seconds on your lap time because the shifts are slow and/or execute themselves at the wrong time then thats all the paddle shifter would be. It would be a pretty cool novelty but a novelty all the same. When it comes to parts like this I want to know that my car is going to drive faster because I used these parts.

I know from my sport bike days that a sequential shifter is going to be the fastest around a track, so when it comes to cars you look for available options that do the same thing. Personally I would have to weight the pros and cons of a manumatic like this and say a dog box or faceplated t-5. You have price between the two, performance, and then things like NVH. I wont argue for a second that a dog box is going to be quiet and smooth during everyday driving cause it wont, actually it would probably suck pretty bad. On the flip side when youre racing you have a smooth, clutchless shift that changes gear when you want it to... no lag no nothing. Personally Id love to see someone making a paddle shift for a t5 or t56 that isnt insanely priced, since they do exist in one form or another but they are definitely cost prohibitive (think Austin Martins t56 setup) or arent really made for regular road driving (check out Tiger Racings shifter that Ford developed for their disabled driver).

Being that I was hurt in a sport bike accident and I cant comfortably drive a manual any more I am somewhat forced into an automatic for that reason but would love to have the speed and preciceness of a manual in a two pedal car.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Mar 29th, 09, 9:18 PM
 
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Re: PADDLE SHIFT A-41 Automatic w/ Engine Braking Driving Videos

How do you feel this compares with the new TCI 6x with paddles?
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