Question for David Ray - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 19, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Question for David Ray

I was told that retarding timing in high gear is supposed to help performance. I was wondering if you could enlighten me on this one, as I am going to put in the MSD timing dial back on the car but what to look for when you retard the timing other than for running NOS.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 19, 9:02 PM
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Re: Question for David Ray

I have decided to lay a bit back on answering questions for a while, I have a real fight to et my hand rehab so I can go back to work.

The last few days have shown even more attacks from a few prsons here on the board against me, and nobody, including me, needs any of that. I am well aware no matter what I post, especially the way things automotive, and ignition related really works, the attacks will continue, without let up.

This is a hobby for a lot of board members, not a "I'm gonna attack Dave, so I can be a hero" contest. I don't care to feed those few person's ego's.

Respectfully, '68, sorry to be this way, but, it is the way it has to be.

A hero will be right along to attack me, and confuse everyone else.......shortly.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 19, 12:09 AM
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Re: Question for David Ray

I'll answer your question, whoever told you that is wrong. At cruise-highway speed, light throttle, and in high gear, timing is advanced through the vacuum canister to give the lean fuel mixture time to burn completely. With that said, without a vacuum cannister and depending on what rpm your cruising at, the amount of distributor mechanical advance is based on how your timing curve is set up. Retarding the timing will not result in more power and will require more throttle to maintain speed. With NOS its all about combustion time so the timing needs to be retarted.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 19, 7:15 PM
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Re: Question for David Ray

I think he might be talking about WOT.

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/374...ng-retard.html

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 19, 9:36 PM
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Re: Question for David Ray

FWIW....back in the heyday of Junior Stockers it was fashionable to use extra timing in 1st and 2nd gears of a 3 speed trans / or 1st,2nd and 3rd gears of a 4 speed to gain starting line advantage and when the shift was made to high gear the ignition would be retarded so it would pull in high gear. Some did this with dual point distributors with different dwell settings on each set of points then switching to 1 set of points in high gear (retarded), I also heard some used a cable thru the firewall hooked up to the points plate that was pulled back in high gear to retard the advance 2-4 degrees, never actually saw one of these set ups. Today its all done electronically, best example might be those who run over 100-125 HP, and up, nitrous kits. Keeps the rings and pistons from melting. Look at nitrous retard kits or special chips for this purpose.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 19, 9:53 PM
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Re: Question for David Ray

Back in the 80's when I was racing a '67 Camaro in the NHRA Super Stock classes, I used an MSD retard timing module in which there was a "degree" chip activated by a switch. The chip I was using had 10° of timing so when I was launching the car, I had 38° degrees in of timing in 1st gear and when shifting in 2nd gear, I flipped the switch to remove 10° degrees giving me 28° degrees total in 2nd and 3rd gears. Worked great!

Claude.

P.S: This was for a race-only car… I'm not sure there would be some benefits using this on a street vehicle…
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 19, 8:40 AM
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Re: Question for David Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ray View Post
I have decided to lay a bit back on answering questions for a while, I have a real fight to et my hand rehab so I can go back to work.

The last few days have shown even more attacks from a few prsons here on the board against me, and nobody, including me, needs any of that. I am well aware no matter what I post, especially the way things automotive, and ignition related really works, the attacks will continue, without let up.

This is a hobby for a lot of board members, not a "I'm gonna attack Dave, so I can be a hero" contest. I don't care to feed those few person's ego's.

Respectfully, '68, sorry to be this way, but, it is the way it has to be.

A hero will be right along to attack me, and confuse everyone else.......shortly.
Hey Dave, Sure hope your hand gets back to working as it should and hope you reconsider, as there are guys here that don't have your vast knowledge and like to hear what you have to teach. It's a learning cure for me anyway and any knowledge that you add is beneficial.
Nothing worse than when life throws you a curve ball (spider bite) , and you have to make the adjustments.
Best Boyd
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 19, 8:58 AM
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Gene
 
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Re: Question for David Ray

Be well Dave. The physical crap you are enduring aint for sissies that's for sure.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 19, 11:44 AM
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Re: Question for David Ray

Dave, there's plenty of us here that respect and appreciate what you have done and continue to do for the community.

And look at the attacks as a sign that you have accomplished something. Nobody attacks the stable boy, they go after the king. There's no glory in firing a shot at someone who hasn't put a squirt of piss in the bucket but it takes at least false bravado to come after a guy who has as many pelts on the wall as you do.

Get your hand better, friend.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 19, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy the Cat View Post
Dave, there's plenty of us here that respect and appreciate what you have done and continue to do for the community.

And look at the attacks as a sign that you have accomplished something. Nobody attacks the stable boy, they go after the king. There's no glory in firing a shot at someone who hasn't put a squirt of piss in the bucket but it takes at least false bravado to come after a guy who has as many pelts on the wall as you do.

Get your hand better, friend.
Well said..
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 19, 8:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Question for David Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ray View Post
I have decided to lay a bit back on answering questions for a while, I have a real fight to et my hand rehab so I can go back to work.

The last few days have shown even more attacks from a few prsons here on the board against me, and nobody, including me, needs any of that. I am well aware no matter what I post, especially the way things automotive, and ignition related really works, the attacks will continue, without let up.

This is a hobby for a lot of board members, not a "I'm gonna attack Dave, so I can be a hero" contest. I don't care to feed those few person's ego's.

Respectfully, '68, sorry to be this way, but, it is the way it has to be.

A hero will be right along to attack me, and confuse everyone else.......shortly.
That's cool, I totally understand, I especially know how people can get as I run our website.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 19, 8:15 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Question for David Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by toofastforyou View Post
Back in the 80's when I was racing a '67 Camaro in the NHRA Super Stock classes, I used an MSD retard timing module in which there was a "degree" chip activated by a switch. The chip I was using had 10° of timing so when I was launching the car, I had 38° degrees in of timing in 1st gear and when shifting in 2nd gear, I flipped the switch to remove 10° degrees giving me 28° degrees total in 2nd and 3rd gears. Worked great!

Claude.

P.S: This was for a race-only car… I'm not sure there would be some benefits using this on a street vehicle…
Did the car pick up anything performance wise in testing?
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Today, 1:37 AM
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Re: Question for David Ray

Hi Dave,

Get well soon. Story for you...about two years ago I was hanging with a couple of buddies. Neither of them are on this site. We got into the manifold versus ported timing debate. At the time my 67 wasn't running well. Both of these guys are in the ported camp. I've run manifold vac advance on this thing for years. It goes back and forth with both of these guys talking about all the magazines say and so on. One of them grew up in Anderson, IN and after a bit I said something like "Dave Ray says....manifold vacuum" and he got quiet. (Turned out it was a bad cap and rotor.)

Zeke

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Today, 4:40 AM
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Re: Question for David Ray

This was on a fast top sportsman car but a guy told me the car ran more mph when they added more timing towards the end of the run. My thinking was a lot less load on the engine towards the top end if the track
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Today, 5:57 AM
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Claude
 
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Re: Question for David Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by 68Chevele View Post
Did the car pick up anything performance wise in testing?
I don't remember as this was more than 30 years ago.

Claude.

1971 Chevelle SS
1987 Buick Grand National 9.48 @ 142 mph
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