Heat Soak - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 22nd, 19, 8:24 PM Thread Starter
matt
 
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Heat Soak

I have a 67 Chevelle with a 454 and hooker headers. When I drive the car or even warm it up to temp the solenoid gets heat soak. that is with a remote solenoid mounted on the firewall. Everything is wired correctly. I decided to replace the remote solenoid with a heavier duty one and when I tried to start it, it had no response no clicks or sounds. so I put the old one back on and one of the solenoids is stuck on constantly giving the starter power. I've had this problem before and I replaced the starter and thought I had gotten rid of the problem. i'm doing something wrong but don't know what? I know it's not the wiring. should I just replace both the starter and solenoid at the same time? I've heard that there is a gm remote starter solenoid for my application but don't know what make or model it goes into. (because the parts store employees around here don't know what i'm doing and need make and model even if I want to buy an air freshener) can someone give me some advice as to what I need to do or am doing wrong? this is how I have it wired.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 22nd, 19, 9:31 PM
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Al
 
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Re: Heat Soak

ACDelco U939 Is the GM solenoid used in the remote starter kit that was installed on some motor homes. It's nothing different from what you already have.

Is your jumper connected to the S terminal on the solenoid? If you followed your diagram then you connected your jumper to the R terminal as it sits on the left side of the solenoid when looking from the front of the car. See attachment. Your jumper should be connected to the right side terminal which is the S terminal when looking from the front of the car. Please check for me.

The heavy duty solenoid may need a ground as some are not body grounded and you'll have an S terminal to supply power to the sol then the other terminal is actually the ground terminal. The Ford type sol has 2 terminals but differ in that 1 activates the sol and the other supplies batt voltage and the body serves as the ground. Check the instructions that came with the sol or supply a part number and brand, so I know what you are working with.

Theres a good chance that the remote sol system won't completely eliminate your heat soak issues. You may have to add a heat shield or isolation blanket to the starter. First we need to see if that starter still has the balls to start that car cold. We also have the option to switch to a different starter thats smaller and requires less amps. We'll get to that if this starter is toast.

If you can post pictures, post some of your solenoids and wiring. If you're not yet allowed to post pictures, let me know and I'll pm an email or you can text photos to my number.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 23rd, 19, 8:41 PM Thread Starter
matt
 
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Re: Heat Soak

thank you for the response. this is a pic of the solenoid I have on the car. I think its just a solenoid for mid 60's mustang. the second one (the box has the part number) is the one that I tried to use. as you can see in the pick I thought it would need a better ground than the firewall (the instructions say that is where it gets it's ground) so the green wire is grounded to the fender bolt.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 23rd, 19, 9:49 PM
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Re: Heat Soak

I just build a closed end can with a flex hose fitting on it, then, fit it around the starter and solenoid, then pump cool air from a fan in front of the core support, through flexible tubing, to the can around the starter. Never fails.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 24th, 19, 12:51 AM
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Re: Heat Soak

I would not be surprised if you got a bad new solenoid. I would test it with a test light and see if it's getting power to the wire that activates the solenoid when the ignition is in start and also if there is power coming out of the solenoid. Ground your light to the bolt on the base of the solenoid to verify there is ground. If you get nothing, ground your test light to a good ground on the engine or neg post of the batt. If it now works you have a faulty ground.

Your starter is a big heat sink. As it gets hot resistance builds. Even when you get your wiring working, you'll probably need to isolate it with a heat shield.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 24th, 19, 9:18 PM
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Kev
 
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Re: Heat Soak

What is the solenoid doing that the OP is calling heat soak?
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 24th, 19, 10:25 PM
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Re: Heat Soak

66 396 Chevelle, headers, professionally rebuilt starter and new solenoid. No heat shields and it easily starts when hot. Your car should start with no issues if using quality components. Was your starter tested on a growler as it should have been? Heat soak is often blamed when component failure is often the issue.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 19, 1:18 AM Thread Starter
matt
 
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Re: Heat Soak

at first when hot it would seem as though the battery was dead but wasn't now one of the solenoids is staying engaged I have to take post off the battery to get it stop. no I didn't get it tested on the growler. it works fine just when It gets hot it doesn't want to start
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 19, 3:30 AM
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Re: Heat Soak

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmatt View Post
at first when hot it would seem as though the battery was dead but wasn't now one of the solenoids is staying engaged I have to take post off the battery to get it stop. no I didn't get it tested on the growler. it works fine just when It gets hot it doesn't want to start
Can you supply a picture to you connections at the starter solenoid?

Disconnect the small lead to the upper solenoid and check to see if there is power to both large leads. If you have power on both, that solenoid is stuck in the on position and is defective. With the key off you should have no power to the small lead.

If that shows power only on the batt lead and not the lead running to the starter, pull the small wire on the starter and see if the starter is still engaged. If it is, that solenoid is bad.

Are all of your battery cables clean and all connections including grounds clean and attached to clean bare metal? Bad cables and poor ground, bad battery, can all cause issues when they get hot and function fine at lower temps.

Heat causes resistance in windings, your starter or starter solenoid may be going bad. But think you have another issue on top of that and it's related to the wiring/connections or failing solenoid/s. Adding a remote solenoid won't cure a heat issue on the starter solenoid or starter because you are still using the solenoid on the starter and windings of the starter to start the engine.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 19, 8:28 AM
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Re: Heat Soak

I don't think your solenoid is wired correct, been a long time since I've had a ford but shouldn't the large wire going to the small post go to the large post?


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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 19, 12:37 PM
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Re: Heat Soak

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelrick View Post
I don't think your solenoid is wired correct, been a long time since I've had a ford but shouldn't the large wire going to the small post go to the large post?
I think and hope that is some optical illusion stuff going on there.

The small wire is not shorting out on the lug either. Correct?
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 19, 1:20 PM
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Re: Heat Soak

Instead of using a bazzialian solenoids to eliminate a heat soak condition why not just use the stronger spring for the solenoid that was designed to eliminate heat soak at the source ? ORRRR just get a new PMGR starter.I have never seen anyone using one of the newer style PMGR (permanent magnet gear reduction) having a heat soak condition.Either way it's one part,rip out all the unnecessary wires and then its Happy Motoring.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 19, 2:02 PM
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Re: Heat Soak

I just blow cool air on the whole mess, fixes it.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 19, 2:37 PM
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Re: Heat Soak

Quote:
Originally Posted by 71350SS View Post
Instead of using a bazzialian solenoids to eliminate a heat soak condition why not just use the stronger spring for the solenoid that was designed to eliminate heat soak at the source ? ORRRR just get a new PMGR starter.I have never seen anyone using one of the newer style PMGR (permanent magnet gear reduction) having a heat soak condition.Either way it's one part,rip out all the unnecessary wires and then its Happy Motoring.
JMO

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-...r-results.html

If the starter is suspect and originality not an issue the PMGR starter is the hot ticket.

It's sort of in my nature to figure out what was going on with his current set up. Hopefully to keep what he has and keep his wallet a little fuller.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old Jul 27th, 19, 7:33 PM
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Re: Heat Soak

I was going to put a mini-starter on my 67 Cougar and bought one from Jeg's.
The instructions specifically said to NOT jumper from the battery connection to the start connection of the solenoid.
Then they went into all the wiring changes I would have to accomplish to use that starter in that car.
I got my original starter rebuilt, put a DEI heat shield around it and put it back in.
Problem solved.
I have a mini-starter on my 64 El Camino's 350 and it works like a champ, too.
My point being that all that extra wiring and solenoids should not be necessary to start your car, no matter the temps.
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