m21 Frankenstein/dispute - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 16, 4:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

Interesting bit of info I found on the interweb. The side cover on this trans is a 3884685. According to 5Speeds Transmission Home Page this side cover was found on passenger side speedo tail casings (3857584). According to this info, it would seem the tail housing has been swapped.
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 16, 4:44 PM
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

The 3884685 side cover was used on all 1966-68 model year Muncie 4-speeds... Crash
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 16, 4:52 PM
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

I like the 2nd gen. F-body shifter with the flame wrench tuned handle...

But I think the best is the new fill plug location, so you get that extra quart of gear lube in...

Hope this helps... Crash
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 16, 6:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by crashent View Post
I like the 2nd gen. F-body shifter with the flame wrench tuned handle...

But I think the best is the new fill plug location, so you get that extra quart of gear lube in...

Hope this helps... Crash
Yeah, I know. The original fill plug is rounded off. How the hell did that happen?!?!?! I guess somewhere down the line, some brain surgeon figured lets drill another! The shifter was a bonus, so he told me. Didn't include any linkage, not that I was going to use it anyway.

Joe
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 12th, 16, 6:29 PM
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopfjaeger View Post
The shifter was a bonus, so he told me. Didn't include any linkage, not that I was going to use it anyway.

Joe

The shifter body should be good. All you would need would be a correct handle and an installation kit (linkages etc) for a 67 chevelle. Just take it apart and clean it, lube it, etc and paint it. There are rebuild kits available but it may not need one. Videos on you tube showing disassembly and reassembly of the Competition Plus shifter body.
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 16, 2:13 AM
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by blm
In that con vin number "Z" would indicate Freemont California plant and the 109091 is consistent with an October 66 build date.
So it appears as though the main case is from a 67 Chevelle but the tail shaft is not.
Fremont... They also built GTOs, 442, Grand Sports there... Those models also used the "Z" in the VIN, and the sequential portion also started with 100000... So "7Z109091" wasn't necessarily a "Chevelle" VIN. Could be from a GTO? 442? etc...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopfjaeger View Post
...For the driver side speedo, I'm guessing running it back over to the driver side is best accomplished over the top of the bellhousing/trans, then securing it so as not to interfere with the shift linkage?

Joe
You could just buy a "non-4-speed" cable (powerglide, etc) for now, and run it through the other hole behind the pedals... There should be a plastic plug in that drivers side hole now...

Not sure why the "Chevelle" used the passenger side speedo, while GTOs used the driver's side cable... My factory 4-speed Chevelle came with the drivers side tailshaft (but not original to the car), and the speedo cable cleared the linkage... I was using Hurst linkage though, and the GTOs also used Hurst linkage... Perhaps the non-Hurst linkage interferes with the drivers side cable...

FYI, you can buy a repro "stock" handle that bolts onto a Hurst Comp plus shifter... Looks stock, but shifts nice...


Sorry I can't help on the 3rd party letter. Seems it shouldn't be too hard to get someone to write a generic letter stating the 383 BH won't fit the 396's larger flywheel... And if you have the emails...

Once you go RAT, you never go back...
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 16, 2:23 AM
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

This website states that the 3840383 bellhousing is for the 153-tooth flywheel... Didn't check if they had info on the #621, or info on all 396s 91967) coming with the 168-tooth flywheel...

Identification and Pictures of the Chevy 3840383 Bellhousing.

they also list a 621 for $200...

Here's another page stating that the 3840383 is for manual transmissions "EXCEPT 396s and small blocks with HD clutches...)
67 Chevelle Bellhousing and Related Components
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 16, 11:19 AM
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1966_L78 View Post
Fremont... They also built GTOs, 442, Grand Sports there... Those models also used the "Z" in the VIN, and the sequential portion also started with 100000... So "7Z109091" wasn't necessarily a "Chevelle" VIN. Could be from a GTO? 442? etc...
Tony: You are correct it may not be from a Chevelle. As far as that goes the tail shaft would indicate otherwise. As far as the con vin goes why does it not have the two numbers stamped before the Z? I have a 1969 Muncie that came from a Baltimore car. The first three digits in the con vin are "19B" . I believe the 1 indicates Chevrolet, the 9 indicates 1969 and the B indicates Baltimore. Was this not done in 67?
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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 16, 4:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1966_L78 View Post
This website states that the 3840383 bellhousing is for the 153-tooth flywheel... Didn't check if they had info on the #621, or info on all 396s 91967) coming with the 168-tooth flywheel...

Identification and Pictures of the Chevy 3840383 Bellhousing.

they also list a 621 for $200...

Here's another page stating that the 3840383 is for manual transmissions "EXCEPT 396s and small blocks with HD clutches...)
67 Chevelle Bellhousing and Related Components
Thanks for the support Tony! It's appreciated!!

Joe
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 13th, 16, 8:20 PM
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

Much of the information above is good.
But for the umteenth time, I need to point out a couple of things that CONTINUALLY get mentioned incorrectly.

They say pictures are worth a thousand words, so here goes.
Tail shafts DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT have numbers on them!

This is a TAIL SHAFT.



This is a TAIL HOUSING (or more correctly, an extension housing), driver and passenger speedo versions.



Bell housings.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SMALL BLOCK OR BIG BLOCK BELL HOUSING!!!!!
Bell housings are mated to an appropriate flywheel! There are/were TWO flywheel sizes: 153 teeth and 168 teeth.
GENERALLY speaking, big blocks got the larger 168 teeth flywheel. Thus, for the 168 teeth flywheel, the appropriate bell housing was either the 444(1966) or the 621(1967-later).

The 421(63 ONLY), 383, 403 housings were used with the smaller 153 teeth flywheels.
All Chevelles with a big block got the larger 168 teeth flywheel, thus, they also got the larger bell housing. But some cars, such as Vettes with a 396 or L88 got the small 153 teeth flywheel and 403 style housing.
Now, with that said, depending on which size flywheel is used, there is an appropriate mating starter required. Small flywheels use a starter with a straight across bolt pattern and big flywheels use a starter with the staggered bolt pattern. Also, if using a GM Delco style starter with a GM bell housing for the big flywheel (444 or 621 syle housing), then a starter with a CAST IRON nose and staggered bolt pattern must be used. There is also a starter with an alum nose and staggered bolt pattern, but that will only fit in the bulge of an auto tranny. The alum nose, staggered bolt pattern is bigger than the cast iron nose and WILL NOT FIT in the starter bulge of a 444-621 bell housing.
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 16, 10:34 AM
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by crashent View Post
But I think the best is the new fill plug location, so you get that extra quart of gear lube in...
That extra quart will help distribute the aluminum chips throughout the syncro rings evenly... LOL! After seeing that it really wouldn't matter which side the speedo cable connects to.
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 16, 10:46 AM
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

Mike,
I like your taste in wheels (from your profile)!

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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 14th, 16, 8:30 PM
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

Tom, right back at ya.. Yours is lookin sweet!!
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 16, 5:02 AM
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

Joe, be advised by Toms' (DZAUTO) post. He's pretty much the authority around here on bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/starter issues and even builds manual trans.
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 16, 8:57 AM
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Re: m21 Frankenstein/dispute

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Mobley View Post
Joe, be advised by Toms' (DZAUTO) post. He's pretty much the authority around here on bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/starter issues and even builds manual trans.
DO NOT give me so much credit. There are several others here (ie Crash, Jody, Paul and several others) who probably know more about transmission (MAINLY Muncies) building than I do. Yes, I've been rebuilding 4spds (mainly Muncies/T10s) for a little under 50yrs, but I'm still learning. And what I've learned about flywheels and bell housings has MOSTLY been from HARD LESSONS LEARNED for over 50yrs. One of my WORST lessons learned was back in the 60s when I tried to install my first Muncie in the 51 Chevy using a 63 ONLY 421 housing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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