200 4r rebuild suggestions - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 29th, 16, 6:55 AM
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Re: 200 4r rebuild suggestions

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Originally Posted by KMR View Post
When i tore down my tranny the inside lock up wire was disconnected from the plug and frayed. I assume it became disconnected and that is why the original car that it came from was junked. Does a new converter lock up kit come with the internal wiring or just external. What kits do you guys suggest?
The CK kit comes with new internal wiring and plug. At least it did with mine. You would need to provide the external wiring. I strongly suggest the B&M Lockup controller also.

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 29th, 16, 9:33 AM
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Re: 200 4r rebuild suggestions

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Originally Posted by chevyefi View Post
A failure of lock-up wouldn't junk a car with 200-4R. It would just run higher rpm. Even with 3.73 gears, that's tolerable.

Activating lock-up externally while letting the stock wiring alone is fine. It may be wired to lock-up only in 4th gear via a pressure switch.
I don't know the exact cause technicalities but I know driving a 200 4R for extended periods on the highway without converter lockup (unless converted to non-lockup) can lead to trans failure. I could see someone junking an otherwise marginal car with a failed trans. I believe it's due to not sufficient cooling. I have mine simply wired to the 4th gear pressure switch. When trans shifts to 4th (OD) about a second later the converter locks. Power goes through a cruise control brake light switch that will interrupt power and unlock the converter when brakes are applied.

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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 30th, 16, 3:32 AM
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Re: 200 4r rebuild suggestions

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Originally Posted by von View Post
I don't know the exact cause technicalities but I know driving a 200 4R for extended periods on the highway without converter lockup (unless converted to non-lockup) can lead to trans failure. I could see someone junking an otherwise marginal car with a failed trans. I believe it's due to not sufficient cooling. I have mine simply wired to the 4th gear pressure switch. When trans shifts to 4th (OD) about a second later the converter locks. Power goes through a cruise control brake light switch that will interrupt power and unlock the converter when brakes are applied.
You're thinking of the 700-R4. Some of those units have a fluid routing issue like what you're describing if lock-up isn't used and they're not modified. The early units which locked up without ECM used a different TCC valve set-up than units used with an ECM. Some of the ECM controlled units need lock-up for fluid flow to the cooler.

That doesn't apply to the 200-4R. As with any automatic, yes there will be additional heat. But unlocked, it still has proper cooler flow.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 30th, 16, 9:22 AM
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Re: 200 4r rebuild suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyefi View Post
You're thinking of the 700-R4. Some of those units have a fluid routing issue like what you're describing if lock-up isn't used and they're not modified. The early units which locked up without ECM used a different TCC valve set-up than units used with an ECM. Some of the ECM controlled units need lock-up for fluid flow to the cooler.

That doesn't apply to the 200-4R. As with any automatic, yes there will be additional heat. But unlocked, it still has proper cooler flow.
I hope this is true. Good to know if something in the lockup circuit goes haywire and it doesn't lock the converter. I had a brake light switch go bad and no voltage in the LU circuit reached the trans. I caught it quick but if the damage story was true it could be a problem if you're far from home or don't notice it for a while. BTW I heard the damage story from a guy that was a Pontiac-Olds dealer tech in the 60's through 90's. He may have meant the 700R4.

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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 30th, 16, 11:05 AM
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You're incorrect.
The 200-4R has the same lockup circuit as a 700.
post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 30th, 16, 6:56 PM
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Re: 200 4r rebuild suggestions

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Originally Posted by jakeshoe View Post
You're incorrect.
The 200-4R has the same lockup circuit as a 700.
So do the non ECM controlled 200 4R's have a cooling problem in non-lockup mode?

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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 31st, 16, 3:48 AM
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Yes, they can.
If it's setup to lockup, and it doesn't do so, you have reduced lube in OD.
post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 31st, 16, 9:31 AM
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Re: 200 4r rebuild suggestions

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Originally Posted by jakeshoe View Post
Yes, they can.
If it's setup to lockup, and it doesn't do so, you have reduced lube in OD.
Thank you. In 3rd (1:1), lube is normal? I drive around town a lot in 3rd.

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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 31st, 16, 12:53 PM
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Re: 200 4r rebuild suggestions

Grinding the land on the PR valve does that increase lube flow?

Jim

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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 31st, 16, 1:48 PM
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Re: 200 4r rebuild suggestions

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Originally Posted by von View Post
You'll definitely need a bigger boost valve, hardened sun shell, new 10 or more vane pump, and steel pump rings (stock cast ones can break and scatter debris throughout. Also, be sure you have a 200 4R rebuild manual and take LOTS of pics and sketches during the teardown. It doesn't look like that lit contains near enough to do it right IMO. I'd recommend the wide 1-2 band too.
Von, I could be wrong, but I dont think 200s have sun shells...only the 700s.



OP- I would look for a BRF valve body, red alto clutches, shift kit, and billet input shaft, new 10 vane pump, and remove the lock up. That tranny will be pretty stout then.

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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 31st, 16, 1:51 PM
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Re: 200 4r rebuild suggestions

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Originally Posted by von View Post
I don't know the exact cause technicalities but I know driving a 200 4R for extended periods on the highway without converter lockup (unless converted to non-lockup) can lead to trans failure. I could see someone junking an otherwise marginal car with a failed trans. I believe it's due to not sufficient cooling. I have mine simply wired to the 4th gear pressure switch. When trans shifts to 4th (OD) about a second later the converter locks. Power goes through a cruise control brake light switch that will interrupt power and unlock the converter when brakes are applied.

When the lock up is removed, the trans has 100% flow to a cooler all the time. Its the other way around I believe.

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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 16, 12:00 PM
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Re: 200 4r rebuild suggestions

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Originally Posted by jakeshoe View Post
The CK kit is a bargain at $449.
You're not just buying parts, you're buying knowledge.
Knowledge of what parts are needed, how to set it up to live in a performance application, what parts are good quality and not junk.

I buy hundreds of thousands of dollars in transmission parts a year and get good pricing. I make my own parts in house and have my own separator plates for the 200-4R.
I spend over $500 in parts to do a basic build.

If you think you're going to rebuild one successfully for less, you are in for a steep learning curve.
Everybody seems to think a $75 rebuild kit will get it done on an automatic transmission.
If it did, I would be rich.

Good luck...
Jake,

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