Yet another new 5 speed or ??? - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

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post #16 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 11, 4:28 PM
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Paul
 
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

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Originally Posted by Bow_Tied View Post
Sure, engineering talent can vary, like any role/position in any career in any business. Why people assume the engineering talent is lacking when they see a less than ideal design is beyond me and frankly, insulting. Anyone who has worked in the engineering field knows more times than not it is mangement decisions of time/money that dictate what is permitted to be included in the scope of a project. Business reasons that cut projects short, skip elements of a design/improvement cause less than ideal products. Yet the engineering folks always get the blame.

I would agree with you except, that these are not big companies. We are not talking GM, or Xerox.

Thanks,

Paul Cangialosi

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post #17 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 9th, 11, 4:49 PM
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Paul
 
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

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Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
Paul,
Thanks for your comments. Can you please elaborate some more on the parts availability concern?
Andrew
Sure! Having been involved with Borg Warner and Tremec since 1981 I've seen a great deal of supply issues. The T45 platform was never really accepted well or stocked. Most stock components were "Ford only", never issued or allowed to the aftermarket. Not everything in those T45 based units is new. When people start making custom gearsets most companies never stock the surplus volume and to be honest I've seen issues with even the Muncie stuff I sell. It becomes difficult to get at times. Imagine breaking a gear or shift Fork and nothing is available. This should be a huge concern and it rarely is mentioned. Things WILL break. I've stopped selling certain gearsets, especially racing sets because time and time someone broke something and I couldn't service the unit. As a distributer you have to stock component parts because sometimes these companies are only running 20 sets at a time. With the Muncie program I can tell you we are doing huge volumes of parts unlike anyone else. None of these people are running a few hundred gearsets like AGE is in regards to the Muncie platform and even then it gets tight. Sometimes, the parts waiting game usually is because someone doesn't have the money to run the volume they need.

Thanks,

Paul Cangialosi

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post #18 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 11, 2:07 AM
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5speeds View Post
Sure! Having been involved with Borg Warner and Tremec since 1981 I've seen a great deal of supply issues. The T45 platform was never really accepted well or stocked. Most stock components were "Ford only", never issued or allowed to the aftermarket. Not everything in those T45 based units is new. When people start making custom gearsets most companies never stock the surplus volume and to be honest I've seen issues with even the Muncie stuff I sell. It becomes difficult to get at times. Imagine breaking a gear or shift Fork and nothing is available. This should be a huge concern and it rarely is mentioned. Things WILL break. I've stopped selling certain gearsets, especially racing sets because time and time someone broke something and I couldn't service the unit. As a distributer you have to stock component parts because sometimes these companies are only running 20 sets at a time. With the Muncie program I can tell you we are doing huge volumes of parts unlike anyone else. None of these people are running a few hundred gearsets like AGE is in regards to the Muncie platform and even then it gets tight. Sometimes, the parts waiting game usually is because someone doesn't have the money to run the volume they need.
I'll be calling you soon Paul!

Sergio
1969 SS396
MJ 467/M20/3.55
TC #5509
Just moved to San Diego!!!

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post #19 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 11, 8:54 AM
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

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Originally Posted by Sergio 69 SS396 View Post
I'll be calling you soon Paul!
You certainly couldn't go wrong dealing with Paul. A few years ago I stopped in Paul's shop for a Muncie bearing retainer. Paul could not have been nicer to talk to. His shop was spotless and a very impressive place. I will be buying from Paul as well when ready. He will tell you like it is with no BS.

Bill
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post #20 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 11, 9:28 AM
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

More on that new trans from Shafi....

Legend Gear & Transmission has achieved the next big step in transmission evolution, with the debut of the LGT-700 for 2012, a brand new, ultra compact 700 LB-FT rated fully synchronized overdrive 5-speed designed and purpose built for our American aftermarket - muscle cars, Corvette, street rods, classics, customs and sport trucks. At Keisler Engineering, we will build this transmission in our fully customized PerfectFit solutions as the Super Sport 700. And, our popular Rallye Sport transmission will evolve to Gen-2 in 2012 and receive the shift system and case upgrades. And all of this Made in USA! That's right USA - not south of the border, and not China, Taiwan, Korea, India or some other overseas source. Employing Americans like you and me with high skill manufacturing jobs, that in return provide up to another 3-5 service jobs for every skilled manufacturing job. This is what America needs, and I am proud to be associated with Legend Gear & Transmission going into 2012, with Keisler Engineering being LGT's very first distributor.
http://www.hotrod.com/eventcoverage/...U7RJIcBCjOs1QT

Jim

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Keisler/LGT SS700 5-speed
Best ET 11.37 @ 121 Mph
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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 11, 4:29 PM
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

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Originally Posted by 5speeds View Post
These transmissions are based on the Borg Warner T45. I liked the T45 very much. I personally like the new cases cast for it and I am sure the internals are new as well. What I don't like is the geometry error produced by the offset shifter, which if you know your math, you will have. This is a carry over from the typical TKO style conversions. To me if you are going to the trouble of recasting a complete case you might as well make the shifter on the side, but typically the engineering talent isn't there. If it was, it would be done. Most people just get locked into copying all the geometry of the original unit and why bother? The other thing that scares me about these T5 ( Mcleod ) and T45 ( Keisler, or Legend) is the abiltiy to get service parts in the future.
Geometry error? Lack of engineering talent? Those are both weak attempts to discredit Keisler Engineering for personal gain.

This trans was designed by Dick McCord, the lead engineer on the T56 6 speed back at BorgWarner and he worked for Muncie prior to that. Dick is a Cornell University graduate and can design rings around you I'm sure.

The T45 is largely based on the T56 and shares internal parts with the T5 and T56 both so service parts are readily available. The Legend line and Keisler SS will have a full host of service parts available in the future. Legend Gear and Transmission is a multi million dollar corporation and they're not here to play. Lace your shoes up tight because the game is about to change...
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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 17th, 11, 3:53 PM
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeislerJeff View Post
Geometry error? Lack of engineering talent? Those are both weak attempts to discredit Keisler Engineering for personal gain.
I'm sorry you feel that way Jeff. My statement had nothing to do trying to discredit you or your company. I have no personal gain in this. I am not in the american muscle 5 speed market and really will not be involved in it. Wish you the best of luck with your new company.

The T45 and T56 and T5 do not share all the same internal parts. They share a few wearable items like synchros. The T5 really? Maybe a shifter and pattern plate. Understand who you are talking to. Few HARD PARTS such as gears are the same. The T45 although is a great transmission was a Ford only unit. The T5 and T56 were both strongly offered to the aftermarket generating quite the surplus of parts. No so with the T45. Making your own gearsets will be a smart move because the more Tremec eliminates and discontinues items the less shortages in the supply chain you will face. Abundant Mfg's facilities are huge and I'm sure they will be up to this task. I see shortages already with the T5 based conversions we do. Always something never available from Tremec.. and I still am a dealer unlike yourself.

As far as engineering goes... I have a question then. If you went to the trouble of basically doing a great job on a case that modeled the T45 geometry why didn't you just do a side mount rail instead of copy a geometry error you had done with the TKO? This wasn't directed at you. EVERYONE does this. With the amount of volume of TKO conversions everyone did I never understood why not one person after all the years never cast their own tail.If you don't understand the error, ask your engineer, or you can pay me to show you. Is it that you still wanted to use center mount shifters and still have a side mount? Considering the bulk of your sales would be for side mount application. Its easy to cosmetically change the outside appearance of a transmission case and maintain and COPY the same data points stock units have. Its easier "engineering" and for the most part you don't have to make new linkage components because internally you are not changing a thing, thus relying on stock components in lieu of a better redesign at the cost of making more components.. please explain.

I wish your new company much success.

Thanks,

Paul Cangialosi

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Last edited by 5speeds; Dec 17th, 11 at 10:36 PM.
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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 17th, 11, 7:33 PM
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

I guess you pissed him off. Kind of like they've pissed off everyone by saying it will be a 90-120 day wait to everyone on the RS600 and not meeting this promise. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I have seen no apologies from Keisler on here, nor them taking the blame for not getting their transmissions out. It's always some vendor or suppliers fault. How about owning up to something and just delivering your promises. Even your Ebay ads still say 90-120 days. Blatant false advertisement in my opinion.

1970 Chevelle. ls3 tremec 6 speed conversion in progress along with a frame off restore.
1972 Chevy K5 Blazer CST Highlander
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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 18th, 11, 4:09 PM
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69ttop502 View Post
You certainly couldn't go wrong dealing with Paul. A few years ago I stopped in Paul's shop for a Muncie bearing retainer. Paul could not have been nicer to talk to. His shop was spotless and a very impressive place. I will be buying from Paul as well when ready. He will tell you like it is with no BS.

Bill
Boy is this the truth!!! I had a "professional" rebuild on the Muncie out of a 65 Corvette that lasted all of a year. (My professional even had the front bearing retainer nut on backwards which put a groove in the machined surface of the bearing retainer) Decided to do it myself and used one of Paul's rebuild kits after looking at many. To say that Paul was a huge help in gauranteeing my rebuild was a success is an understatement.
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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 11, 1:19 AM
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrennie View Post
I was checking out the ratio's shown for the SS700 5 speed, and the first 4 gears ratios are identical to the Viper T56 and GM T56 respectively.

One shows 2.66/1.78/1.30/1.0 with a .68 or .8 OD, and the other is 2.97/2.07/1.43/1.0 with a .68 or .8 OD.
I hope tis is true!! I am in the market for a new tranny as mine gave out a couple weeks ago and am going to do a manual swap, and was thinking of the t56 since it has a better gearing for what i want. This would be an even better choice!
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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 11, 6:17 AM
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Brian
 
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76z28 View Post
I hope tis is true!! I am in the market for a new tranny as mine gave out a couple weeks ago and am going to do a manual swap, and was thinking of the t56 since it has a better gearing for what i want. This would be an even better choice!
You and me both, but if history repeats itself........this will be another pre pay order and wait for over a year for a non confirmed delivery date.


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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 11, 8:52 AM
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by chevy111 View Post
I guess you pissed him off. Kind of like they've pissed off everyone by saying it will be a 90-120 day wait to everyone on the RS600 and not meeting this promise. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I have seen no apologies from Keisler on here, nor them taking the blame for not getting their transmissions out. It's always some vendor or suppliers fault. How about owning up to something and just delivering your promises. Even your Ebay ads still say 90-120 days. Blatant false advertisement in my opinion.
I wasn't pissed off at all; I was simply defending the company I work for just like anybody else would have if they were in my shoes. I'm not going to sit idle while somebody slams our product that has no personal experience with it.

As far as ebay goes, 90-120 days is the maximum lead time you can choose. I have specified a longer lead time in the description and instruct potential buyers to inquire about lead times before ordering. It's a very simple process.

We apologize every day and the lead times suck. We're doing all we can to work through this and move forward.
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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 11, 8:57 AM
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

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Originally Posted by CHELKAMINO View Post
You and me both, but if history repeats itself........this will be another pre pay order and wait for over a year for a non confirmed delivery date.
Not gonna happen. Our focus is RS and getting caught up before any new products will be launched.
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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 11, 9:22 AM
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5speeds View Post
Always something never available from Tremec.. and I still am a dealer unlike yourself.

As far as engineering goes... I have a question then. If you went to the trouble of basically doing a great job on a case that modeled the T45 geometry why didn't you just do a side mount rail instead of copy a geometry error you had done with the TKO? This wasn't directed at you. EVERYONE does this. With the amount of volume of TKO conversions everyone did I never understood why not one person after all the years never cast their own tail.If you don't understand the error, ask your engineer, or you can pay me to show you. Is it that you still wanted to use center mount shifters and still have a side mount? Considering the bulk of your sales would be for side mount application. Its easy to cosmetically change the outside appearance of a transmission case and maintain and COPY the same data points stock units have. Its easier "engineering" and for the most part you don't have to make new linkage components because internally you are not changing a thing, thus relying on stock components in lieu of a better redesign at the cost of making more components.. please explain.
Being an "authorized" Tremec dealer is meaningless. The 6 month warranty is useless and we always ended up providing our own warranty anyway. That's why we have the longest warranty on a new Tremec now at 36 months. Sure, you get to be listed on their website that might point a few people your way but we have always had our own marketing in place that has proven to be much more effective.

The reason we are no longer associated with Tremec is the RS. It brings a lot more to the market than TKO and they didn't want to support a competing product. The TKO is a good trans but it's 1960's toploader design just lacks the performance ability guys are wanting these days. Specifically the ability to shift at high rpms and hit 3rd gear reliably.

The case design provides us the ability to offer over 15 unique shifter positions to cover as wide of a market as possible. It works and works well; there are no geometry errors present.
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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 11, 5:33 PM
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Re: Yet another new 5 speed or ???

For what it is worth, yes the initial delays were a real bummer and unexpected from my viewpoint. But, Shafi and his crew did treat me very well and in the end he delivered a trans to me that I really like. Yes, I had some harsh words in the beginning out of frustration, but after a few phone calls and speaking civil on both sides of the phone, everything was resolved. The ultimate test for me would be how I answer this question;
"Would I use Keisler again in the future for a new transmission"? I'd have to say YES I would. I for one am really looking forward to the new case design for the RS series and would also be interested in the new SS700 series transmission as well. These are very compact units for a 5-speed and offer an abundant of shift positions for the classic cars.

Jim

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Keisler/LGT SS700 5-speed
Best ET 11.37 @ 121 Mph
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