Would this help with vibration? 67 - Chevelle Tech
Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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Would this help with vibration? 67

I have a 67 Chevelle. 4L60 and a 10 bolt. It’s lowered slightly and as it sits the pinion is higher than the trans yoke. I have the pinion adjusted within 1 deg of the yoke. I get vibrations above 60mph. I can’t spend a grand on a CV driveshaft but would adding one of these behind the trans yoke act the same as a CV?

I have no idea, just asking the question. Don’t be to hard on me I’m just looking for options.
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Tighten it till it strips and back it off a quarter turn.
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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 12:48 PM
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

What size is the driveshaft (diameter and rough length), and what was it balanced to?
What size are your tires, and what is your gear ratio?
Have you ruled out the wheels/tires?

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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 1:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

Wheels and tires are new (18") 3:31 GR. It definitely feels like driveline. Stock length and diameter driveshaft.

Tighten it till it strips and back it off a quarter turn.
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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 3:27 PM
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwhite00 View Post
Wheels and tires are new (18") 3:31 GR. It definitely feels like driveline. Stock length and diameter driveshaft.

Recommend you verify the vibration is 'drive line'. One way to do that is:

Because the drive shaft rotational rpm would produce the 'drive line' vib, drive the car in different gears. The vibration inception speed should change in relation to the transmission's gear ratios. The vibration should recur in any gear, just at lower speeds as one downshifts.


Example with a M20:

Vib occurs at 60 mph in 4th gear (1:1 gear ratio); engine and drive shaft rotating at 3000 rpm (just an example).

Driving in 2nd gear (real close to 2:1 gear ratio) at 30 mph will rotate the driveshaft at 3000 rpm (in this example) and should reproduce the vib. If the vibration does not recur near 30 mph, it's likely 'speed' related. Suspension? Tire balance? Something else?

Pete
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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 3:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by japete92 View Post
Recommend you verify the vibration is 'drive line'. One way to do that is:

Because the drive shaft rotational rpm would produce the 'drive line' vib, drive the car in different gears. The vibration inception speed should change in relation to the transmission's gear ratios. The vibration should recur in any gear, just at lower speeds as one downshifts.


Example with a M20:

Vib occurs at 60 mph in 4th gear (1:1 gear ratio); engine and drive shaft rotating at 3000 rpm (just an example).

Driving in 2nd gear (real close to 2:1 gear ratio) at 30 mph will rotate the driveshaft at 3000 rpm (in this example) and should reproduce the vib. If the vibration does not recur near 30 mph, it's likely 'speed' related. Suspension? Tire balance? Something else?

Pete

But the driveshaft is only spinning at 1/2 speed....

Tighten it till it strips and back it off a quarter turn.
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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 3:40 PM
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

Either way if you did not have this problem before the New Wheels & Tires
then that would be my First thing to check for Balance/True-nest

2nd would be the Driveshaft for Length / Balance / and new U-Joints

3rd would be the Front End Suspension and Steering PLUS the Rear End Suspension Bushings & Bolts/Hardware

67 Chevelle Malibu SS Cdn
Born 283 / PG / A51
468/TH400 2,500 stall/ S60 3.70 Gs
Prev Best on M/T ET S/S #3454 street Tires/Dress 2018/05/20
60' = 1.664
1/8 = 7.532 et / 91 mph
1/4 = 11.814 et / 115 mph
NEW Best with 3,500+ Stall TC 2019/09/08
60' = 1.547
1/8 = 7.311 et / 91.76 mph
1/4 = 11.595 et / 114.28 mph


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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 4:55 PM
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

What are all of your current driveline angles (tailshaft, driveshaft, pinion?)

Does it get worse or better or change if you move the angles around?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwhite00 View Post
I have a 67 Chevelle. 4L60 and a 10 bolt. It’s lowered slightly and as it sits the pinion is higher than the trans yoke. I have the pinion adjusted within 1 deg of the yoke. I get vibrations above 60mph. I can’t spend a grand on a CV driveshaft but would adding one of these behind the trans yoke act the same as a CV?

I have no idea, just asking the question. Don’t be to hard on me I’m just looking for options.

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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 5:03 PM
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

Those things don't play well with high performance options IMO I think thats why the factories only used those type of CV driveshafts on their luxo-barge fleets.But then again there could be some HiPo cars that came with those CV's OE
Also those are expensive to have rebuilt and not everyone knew how to rebuild them so calling around to the area driveshaft shops,you would get a lot of the "we don't do them", click.
So I remember getting sent with a core to Paterson NJ to get a rebuilt one from a guy who was a CV Guru. He had a nickname that escapes me right now and they called that area of Paterson "Gasoline alley".I think his name was "Pappy" Hough - -

http://blog.garagistry.com/2017/12/a...than-just.html

But I just found this on a quick search
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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 5:34 PM
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwhite00 View Post
But the driveshaft is only spinning at 1/2 speed....

You are correct! I was trying to point out that, if one could replicate the drive shaft vibration inception rpm, at ANY different speed, that would verify a drive line issue. I brain farted that post and math. I used to be smarter Sorry and thanks.

I'll try again.

IN MY EXAMPLE, to rotate the drive shaft at the 3000 rpm (the example inception of the vibration), and NOT go 60 mph; one could put the drive wheels up on stands and let the wheels spin (0 speed, kinda like being on a dyno). Using approx M20 gear ratios; one could reach 3000 drive shaft rpm at about 4500 engine rpm in 3rd, or about 3000 engine rpm in 4th. If there is an 3000 drive shaft rpm vibration, it should appear.

If I screwed that up again, I'm going to take a pill, go the sleep and wake up tomorrow; more alert. Hopefully

Pete
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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 6:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk's67SS View Post
Either way if you did not have this problem before the New Wheels & Tires
then that would be my First thing to check for Balance/True-nest

2nd would be the Driveshaft for Length / Balance / and new U-Joints

3rd would be the Front End Suspension and Steering PLUS the Rear End Suspension Bushings & Bolts/Hardware
This is the first time in almost 10 years this car has seen the street. All new suspension front and rear, shocks, springs, control arms- everything. The wheels and tires are new and professionally mounted and balanced. This is literally the first time I have drove it since I bought it in a basket. The driveshaft is a oem shaft. U joints are good.

As far as rebuilding that style of CV joint, I believe it’s just a couple of U-joints, no?
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Tighten it till it strips and back it off a quarter turn.
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post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 6:57 PM
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

Pete -

Still not following. The only variable in your example will be the engine RPM. Drive shaft RPM and drive wheels, and thus speed will be a constant at 3K RPMs - i.e. transmission gears will only effect the engine RPMs, but 3K RPM at the drive shaft will always be the same speed regardless of what gear it's in.

Maybe I'm missing the point of this test.

jim
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post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 8:13 PM
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucifershammer View Post
What are all of your current driveline angles (tailshaft, driveshaft, pinion?)



Does it get worse or better or change if you move the angles around?
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post #13 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 8:42 PM
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim's69Ragtop View Post
Pete -

Still not following. The only variable in your example will be the engine RPM. Drive shaft RPM and drive wheels, and thus speed will be a constant at 3K RPMs - i.e. transmission gears will only effect the engine RPMs, but 3K RPM at the drive shaft will always be the same speed regardless of what gear it's in.

Maybe I'm missing the point of this test.

jim
Jim,

First, thanks for being kind.

With the car MOVING, the car's speed WILL be determined by the drive shaft RPM, the rear gear ratio, and the tire diameter. I always knew that but just "old guy'ed" the concept in my first post.

IF one lifts the drive wheels off the ground, and rotates the drive shaft, the drive wheels will be rotating at a rate commensurate with the speed (MPH) the car WOULD go, but the car goes nowhere; 0 mph. That 0 speed isolates any 'speed factor' vibrations (suspension, wheel/tires, etc) from the experiment (not necessarily from the problem). What's left is ONLY the contributions (if any) from the rotating drive shaft.

Now, because I'm going thru this in my head again, to completely isolate all wheel/tire vibrations, the rear tire/wheels need removal. They WOULD spin, and may 'vibrate' if unbalanced.

When driving the car and 'feeling' the vibration, the poster stated it started around 60 mph. If he was in high gear, and that ratio is 1:1, whatever the tach reads at 60 mph, is also the drive shaft rpm upon vibration inception. I used 3000 rpm in my example because it made the math easy.

I went on with how one could 'measure' 3000 drive shaft rpm by using the engine rpm and a M20 transmission (as an example). Third gear is approx 1.5:1. Or 4500:3000. 4th Gear is 1:1. OR 3000:3000.

Said another way, (in my example) the car does 60 mph at 4500 tach rpm in third, and 3000 tach rpm in fourth. Drive shaft rpm is 3000 for both.

Am I making any sense?

Pete
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post #14 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 8:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by japete92 View Post
Jim,

First, thanks for being kind.

With the car MOVING, the car's speed WILL be determined by the drive shaft RPM, the rear gear ratio, and the tire diameter. I always knew that but just "old guy'ed" the concept in my first post.

IF one lifts the drive wheels off the ground, and rotates the drive shaft, the drive wheels will be rotating at a rate commensurate with the speed (MPH) the car WOULD go, but the car goes nowhere; 0 mph. That 0 speed isolates any 'speed factor' vibrations (suspension, wheel/tires, etc) from the experiment (not necessarily from the problem). What's left is ONLY the contributions (if any) from the rotating drive shaft.

Now, because I'm going thru this in my head again, to completely isolate all wheel/tire vibrations, the rear tire/wheels need removal. They WOULD spin, and may 'vibrate' if unbalanced.

When driving the car and 'feeling' the vibration, the poster stated it started around 60 mph. If he was in high gear, and that ratio is 1:1, whatever the tach reads at 60 mph, is also the drive shaft rpm upon vibration inception. I used 3000 rpm in my example because it made the math easy.

I went on with how one could 'measure' 3000 drive shaft rpm by using the engine rpm and a M20 transmission (as an example). Third gear is approx 1.5:1. Or 4500:3000. 4th Gear is 1:1. OR 3000:3000.

Said another way, (in my example) the car does 60 mph at 4500 tach rpm in third, and 3000 tach rpm in fourth. Drive shaft rpm is 3000 for both.

Am I making any sense?

Pete
I thought you were going to sleep? Lol

Tighten it till it strips and back it off a quarter turn.
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post #15 of 55 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 9:17 PM
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Re: Would this help with vibration? 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwhite00 View Post
I have a 67 Chevelle. 4L60 and a 10 bolt. It’s lowered slightly and as it sits the pinion is higher than the trans yoke. I have the pinion adjusted within 1 deg of the yoke. I get vibrations above 60mph. I can’t spend a grand on a CV driveshaft but would adding one of these behind the trans yoke act the same as a CV?

I have no idea, just asking the question. Don’t be to hard on me I’m just looking for options.
So would that be used in the center of a two-piece drive shaft? I had a two-piece drive shaft on a car from the factory, and it worked fine with no shake [email protected] mph. Can you be sure that it isn't a wheel balance issue? Another car I had had a [email protected] mph and up that wouldn't go away after two wheel/tire balancing appointments. And then I went to a place that had the hunter "Road Force" balancing equipment which places a hydraulic arm with a roller against the tire as it's being balanced to simulate the weight of the vehicle, and that solved the problem. At the time it wasn't cheap, ( $320 for all four tires back on 2007) but it worked, and I never had the problem again with that car.
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