Folks, put Superior axles in the 12 bolts years back, maybe near 18 yrs. Found the wheel studs on pass side axle all loose in their bores last week a the track. Drivers side fine. ( i did have a loose wheel incident a few years ago, and cant fathom how a few hundred yards of easy driving could do that but. there it is)
Anyway, do I replace axles as a "wear" item after 18 years? Or simply replace the loose studs? The flanges are also drilled for 1/2" screw in studs, but assume that would mean different nuts etc?
So studs or two new axles? I'll know in a while but think I only painted a white stripe on my stock axles, not the replacements. Hope i did , will make the choice easy.
I am no expert, but if it were mine, I would pull the axles and check the bearing surface for wear. This wear would determine if they need replaced. If it looks ok and the stud holes are not extremely ruined, I would just weld the studs to the flange on the back side.
and I just did. No extreme wear at bearings surfaces. the oil seal may be weeping a bit. splines look mint. Wish I painted a stripe onto them, but if I had, I'm sure it'd be laser straight.
Bores measure .445 so should be able to simply R&R the studs. Trick may be finding non-Chinese metal.
If new studs fit in the holes tight then that's great. If not then I would use the holes for the screw in studs and get studs to fit them. You should never weld on any part of an axle. It's heat treatable steel and the metal will get brittle around the weld.
I was hoping you would pipe in Freddie. Thank you.
The Strange stock replacements ( 1.5") have a .472 knurl and I'm measuring .445. They may not be impact gun seatable is all. I'll call the local auto machine shop; they may even have some in stock. And definitely have a big arbor press!
These old Superior axles actually look mint.
PS, one of my buds said weld them to the flanges. When I mentioned it to my kid, the millwright wannabe, he said no way. Could distort the flange. The kid is becoming a pro!
Yeah, a .007-.015" press is going to be about it for a knurl like that.
Best practice would be to measure the diameter of the stud just before or after the knurl, so you know the original size of the stud shank before they rolled the knurl into it...size the hole no tighter than .002" smaller than that shank size.
If your going to try to pound them in, or draw them in with an impact gun(I don't recommend, easy to gall a thread that way) the hole is going to need to be a little bigger than the shank or you'll have a hell of a time seating it.
You can always drill the holes in the axle flange to take a bigger knurl
Gene, I'm definitely not an expert on this, but FWIW, two things come to mind (nice thread title BTW hahahaha ):
#1. OK so you've measured the diameter of the bearing surfaces of the axles, but I'm guessing that you'll also need to check for run-out with the use of a dial indicator. However IDK what the maximum allowable run-out would be, (maybe up to .008" or so???) and I'm also thinking that the only accurate way to check for run out would be to bring the axles to a local machine shop to have them chucked onto a lathe.
#2. I've used an impact gun to draw the wheel studs in without damaging the steel threads at all. I used wheel bearing grease on the threads as well as a little bit on the splines, along with grease on the nuts and washers I also used, and I froze the studs in my kitchen freezer for a couple hours prior to installation in order to shrink the O.D. a couple thousandths to aid installation. However if I remember right, that was only with a .005" interference fit on the spline surface. Certainly NOT a .017"+ interference fit.
So I went to the local speed shop K&S Auto, and the racer there Mike set me up. You can swedge ( 5 lb mallet) a Dorman .462 knurl stud into a .450" hole I would never have thought. But I done it> Bang Bang Maxwell's silver hammer.
I was with Billy 100% until I done did it. When Mike put the .462' Doemans into the hole you could tell they wanted to be there. one 5 lb mallet and heavy vise for flange support was all she took.
but the lesson here is, when you pound the snot out of your 1967 12 bolt, you best pull her apart and check stuff. I did last year before the MJ467 arrived, But I never pulled the pin. So the moral of the story is, a 12 bolt is like a contra-hand grenade. If you DO NOT want it to grenade, PULL THE PIN for inspection.
because as I halfway re-inserted the pin after C -clipping my repaired axle in , it slipped out, ( gear oil bath all over my hands at that point) and this little guy somehow magically appeared.... and we definitely have a loose spider gear. Diff is out for service!
PULL THE PIN FOR A COMPLETE INSPECTION!!!!! Drop the clips and back out the axles to check your spiders. And their washers!
This would have fragged old Red's original and lazer-straight beautiful sheet metal if the axle unassed itself. OY VEY! Got lucky.
That's common with the Eaton Posi. I keep some of those washers for that reason. It wouldn't have caused your axle to come out, but it would have worn your Eaton case and could have caused a gear failure. I would guess that your clutches are worn and need to be shimmed, but that's another project. The trick to getting that washer back in place without disassembling the unit is to put it in through the small hole instead of the big one.
That shim is FUBAR'd Freddie. Brought the diff to our local "azzman" for service. His comment was" if you really have 600 HP, you really need to upgrade the center section". I have no idea what he is talking about, but when you say Eaton case, I presume that is part of it. . But Billy is pulling it apart. He rebuilt it maybe 12 years ago. Feel like I am falling down a rabbit hole!
Hahahahah...600hp with a stick will break a lot of stuff. I finally put a TrueTrac in my Moser housing with Strange C-clip axles that has 1/2 inch screw-in studs, but my motor took another crap before testing it for abuse. Or, was it abusing it for testing? Wait, I remember now, abusing it for fun!
I'm pretty sure that thrust washer is from a Eaton Posi. Yeah, the Eaton is probably not up to handling 600 HP. When Chevy built the COPO Camaros and Chevelles they used special gears and clutches in the Eaton Posi and special heat treated ring & pinion gears in the 12 bolt for those cars.
I have no idea what the local "rear end specialist" ( as it is embroidered on his work shirt) Billy means about "upgrade center carrier" I , unfortunately, may find out.
DEEP in the rabbit hole I go! Punched out early today to put the diff back in and button it all up for a cruise maybe.
Not with near .030" backlash dry though! DAMMIT. I thought it seemed loose when I pulled it apart. Now, its obvious. 30- thou is a guess; tried to quick n dirty with some calipers using the heel but no way. I eyeballed it off the base of the caliper. I reckoned on what gap 10 thou was and this is 2-3X more!
I'll set up a dial when junior gets back home and get a good read. But it aint 10 thou, for sure.
Which I assume is what it ought be. .008" to .010", MAYBE .012" , not what looks to be the gap of a spark plug.
Which means the whole azz assy is coming out. JOY! Anyway, dial indicator test next before I go TOO FAR! :clonk:
I don't know about upgrades, but I sure did mix them shims up. Now I have to pull the whole diff to set it up properly. Well, after I pull one shim and switch sides and see if I can get her down to 10 thou backlash gy "random selection" on my back, which isnt likely.
If I ve got 30 thou, 10 thou shim will take it down 20, wont it> ? Its been a while since I set a rear up. I'll take a few stabs at it to see if I can get it to 10, and then likely pull it and give it to the proctologist.
Upgrades? I prefer to keep this one fairly stock, just beefed. The upgrade may be replacing the Hurst shifter with a custom Long shifter if Chris@Long can make up a Muncie box for me.
I think I may have misunderstood your last post before the one here above Gene. As far as the back lash, I guess I missed how you got it so far off. Aren't you using the same shim pack and the same ring gear as you removed from from this Chevy anus to begin with? If so, then I don't understand how you now have a whopping .030" back lash.
Anyway, as far as I can remember, I believe you're correct in thinking that a .010" shim would bring it down to .020" but during the two rear end jobs I performed myself, ( one of them was done on my back with the car 23" off the floor on six 6 ton jack stands, and without even having an impact gun, so I had to use a 4 foot black iron plumbing pipe to turn that pinion nut. So I can relate to your situation. :yes I just used the same exact shim pack that I removed from the carrier and my back lash was right on the money both times. So I never had to mess with changing carrier shims, (only with changing pinion shims for correct pinion depth).
Gene, another thing that comes to mind: you might already know this, but in case you don't, or others here don't, here's a basic tip I learned, (pretty novice stuff, but that's me: a novice) to prevent the carrier from flying out onto your head when you pry it out of the pumpkin when having to change the carrier shims, what I do is remove all four bearing cap bolts, and then I thread them all back into the carrier by hand, only two turns in each of their threaded holes, with the two caps still being underneath them, and then I reach for the prybar and a small piece of wood to pry against. That way when the carrier comes flying out abruptly, (as it often does ) it gets caught by the bearing caps and the four loosened bolts, instead of flying into your skull. I hope this helps you or perhaps someone else here some day. It sure helped me in the past.
Hey Gene:
A friend of mine is a Proctologist. He did a complete overhaul of his Briggs & Stratton lawn mower engine. He did it all through the Tailpipe!...:laugh:
Bob
Pat, thankfully Billy doesn't need to do this, although I called him yesterday to make sure he could set it up next week if need be. He told me to shoot for 10 thou, and got it to >008->009" this am after the 3rd try. With the shims I have it must be the right combination, I'd buttoning it up.
Billy, one upgrade is that I would have asked Billy to swap on a 1330 or even 1350 yoke, and then have Denny redo the shaft to fit. But, its going back together with a new 1310 in the rear. Pinion felt mint; it did get a new 1310 yoke a few years back after the 427 opened up the oem one.
Pat , when you meet Billy with his "Rear End Specialist" embroidered workshirt on, you KNOW you got the right guy! Tell 'em "chaz" sent ya. Good people, Top notch work. Tonawanda. R&E Speed and Fabrications ( yes he has a jig to weld up your 12 bolt if need be!) on Sawyer St. 877-4147
PS, when I brought the center section to him to replace that washer that unarsed, I joked with his office lady about a 15 yr warranty on rebuilds! When I picked it back up done, he wouldnt even charge me. Being the icehole I am, I told him to eff off and put a Grant in his hand. He's too nice a guy. 15 yr rebuild warranty!
He is my proctologist. The best in town!
PS my real proctologist just passed, and his name was, and i kid y'all not, Dr, Whacker! RIP Doc 3rd time wasnt a charm for you! Now I;ll have to offer my azz to the pipe with another operator.
Billy, one upgrade is that I would have asked Billy to swap on a 1330 or even 1350 yoke, and then have Denny redo the shaft to fit. But, its going back together with a new 1310 in the rear. Pinion felt mint; it did get a new 1310 yoke a few years back after the 427 opened up the oem one.
Yeah man, dont jinx me; I've been lucky so far! ( and I'm running the CF DF hard hitting clutch to boot!)
But I try and make my luck. For example, even though the backlash is at a tight 8, i'm going to pull the shim packs one more time, measure them all , and see if math can be used to make that 10. 8 seems tight on these oem gears. Don't beleive they were quite that tight upon disassembly before I shuffled the deck. Also at a tight 8, I may opt for 75-90 synth with GM additive, in lieu of the 80-90 dino I had planned.
Yet, I'll pattern what I have now and see how full the contact patch is before i pull anything since its within spec. oem 3.31 gear sets aren't available new in billet so ..
PS if anyone has any thoughts on a "field expedient" grease paint ( gear marking paint) let me know. Else I'm stuck 'til tomorrow. Wife's lipstick maybe? All my camo face paint is dried up!
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