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200-4R Rebuild

13K views 87 replies 19 participants last post by  lucifershammer 
#1 ·
I want to install a 200-4R transmission in my 64 El Camino since I won't have to shorten the driveshaft but would like to save money by doing the rebuild myself if possible. Pretty much the only mechanical background I have is rebuilding a 10 bolt rearend. I'll also be installing a low mile 350 engine. Rebuilding a transmission seems pretty daunting but is it possible with help in this forum and elsewhere online?

A local salvage yard has a 200-4R available from a Cadillac Deville for less than $200, but looks like that doesn't include the pump or valve body. Would I need to upgrade the valve body, reverse boost valve, servo and governor assembly? I don't think I can afford a billet torque converter. What flex plate is decent? What other parts and rebuild kit would I need?
 
#3 ·
It’s possible if you have the tools and aptitude. There are people that can help you through every step of the way. I would purchase a rebuild manual to begin with.

However, I wouldn’t start with that core. I agree with the advice to buy something complete and possibly working already. You will be miles ahead.

That said, don’t overlook the the turbo 350s and 400s which are easier to rebuild and less finicky than the 200 to set up.
 
#5 ·
I'm going to get a complete tranny from the Cadillac with the salvage yard's warranty, if it doesn't work they'll let me pull another one. One option is to just install the 30 year old transmission and see how it works but if I want to learn how to rebuild it and have the benefit of knowing it's rebuilt now I won't have to worry about doing it in the near future. What parts are essential to replace now that aren't in rebuild kits? Any transmission specialists here that can point me in the right direction?
 
#6 ·
Just as an fyi, there are better 2004Rs than others. off the top of my head, its the Monte Carlo SS, and Grand National that are the favorite of the bunch. If you search around you will find the codes of the "better" ones online. I picked one up from a MCSS for $212, threw a new front seal at it, and let her rip.
Read as much as you can about setting up the TV cable before hand.
 
#7 ·
I can't find a Monte Carlo SS 2004R tranny in my area. The list https://www.chevelles.com/forums/33-transmission-driveline/355399-list-200-4rs.html

I'll read more about proper TV cable installation but what else do you guys suggest to do in the removal and installation process if I try the Cadillac transmission as is? Or are there a few things I can replace without a complete tear down and rebuild? Steel vane rings? Can I use the Cadillac torque converter with my 350?
 
#8 ·
#12 ·
I don't know anything about 200-4Rs. They could have dual patterns. Seems like I read that about some GM transmission years ago.
 
#13 ·
Most do but I've heard talk of some with single pattern.
Best to look before you pull it.
 
#16 ·
It is also necessary to wire the lock-up converter so that it will work, otherwise your transmission will be damaged. There are aftermarket wiring kits that will make it easy to do in your older car. Normally, the on-board computer handles that function. Its also a good idea to replace the lock-up solenoid. They sometimes stick when they get older. This will cause the transmission to shift too quickly and can also cause it to stall the engine when stopping the car. Here are two links. One is for a good info page of the 2004r and the other is for a replacement lock-up solenoid. I replaced both the lock-up solenoid and the fluid pressure switch on my junkyard 2004r. It works perfectly and it really helped my car. https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/gm-th-200-4r-transmissions/ https://www.ebay.com/itm/2004R-700R...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
 
#17 ·
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/33-transmission-driveline/388275-200r4-lock-up-wiring-basics.html

WIRING 2004r Lockup Basics

They can be found in Three style of bellhousing configurations.

Above is the "Chevy" Bolt Pattern. The high center peak at the top is it's most noteable feature.
Transmissions with this bolt pattern will mate to most Chevy engines

Above is the "BOP" (Buick-Olds-Pontiac) Bolt Pattern. The depressed flat at the top is it's most noteable feature.
Transmissions with this bolt pattern will mate to most Buick, Cadillac, Oldsmobile and Pontiac engines

The third common bolt pattern is what is often refered to as the "Dual" Pattern bolt pattern. Or sometimes called the "Universal" pattern.
Transmissions with this pattern will bolt up to engines with either of the two patterns above eliminating the need to use an adaptor plate.

The lower two bolts and the locating dowels are in the same locations for both the "Chevy" and the "BOP" bolt patterns.
The locations of the upper four bolts is different.
The "Dual" takes advantage of this and provides for mating to either pattern.

The pics will not show up, sorry
 
#18 ·
Thanks. Would someone be able to give me graded recommendations to see what options I have to try to save money? What would you say is essential to buy or replace just to be able to install a junkyard tranny? What is recommended? Then what is ideal? Then what would just be a bonus or a performance upgrade?
 
#22 ·
At a minimum you need to do a total soft parts rebuild. But your success won’t just depend upon replacing parts but also checking the condition of the trans as you take it apart and performing a thorough inspection of the hard parts after cleaned and before they are put back together. Lastly there are certain tolerances to be observed.

If you’re running a stock-ish 350, it should not require any further upgrades. You need to think about your ultimate torque goal to assess needed upgrades.

I wouldn’t do the rebuild unless you’re committed to more than just an R&R rebuild.
 
#20 ·
i actually found this site when i was looking for info on setting up lockup. i cant find it now of course, but it was an awesome guide as to how it works, and had really good directions on how to do it, with all of the parts listed. There are a bunch of different ways to do it, and it doesnt really require buying a kit, and most kits i saw werent really complete in my opinion. i have both mine set up like this.....toggle switch to brake switch to vacuum switch to an 8 second delay timer, to 4th gear pressure switch to lock up solenoid. If you just wire it up without the vacuum switch, the trans will go into lock up as soon as it goes into 4th, which i find really annoying. The vac switch will hold off sending power to the solenoid until your vacuum stabilizes....so like if you are on the go pedal pretty good, you will shift 1-4, then when you get to cruising speed, then it will engage. at cruising speed, like if you go to pass, it will open the contacts again to unlock the converter. i use the delay timer to keep the converter from cycling back and forth. this was controlled by a vacuum delay valve which is no longer available. Also, its my understanding fourth gear pressure switch can sometimes be inside the trans under the pan, or outside on the passenger side (this could also just be a port with no switch attached) you want to make sure whatever way it is, that you have a normally open switch, that makes contact when its in 4th.

center in this pic is the stock vac switch, and the little delay valve that looks like a top and has that teal color on one side. when you go to harvest your transmission, grab these two items if they are still there, and if they were used on that particular vehicle.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/attachment.php?attachmentid=136170&stc=1&d=1113932884

There is some set up involved with an od trans, TV cable, and TCC, but its well worth it in my opinion.
 
#21 ·
#23 ·
That’s why I asked if someone could give me graded recommendations, or what they would consider a “level 1 vs 2 vs 3” rebuild so I can figure out how much money I need to spend and if I should plan on buying a new torque converter. If the hard parts are in bad shape then I’ll just go back to the salvage yard with my warranty and try another one.
I plan to have a stockish 350 for a while.
I watched a bunch of YouTube videos today and plan on reading books and manuals next.

Rebuild kit with new band
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/290616765490

13 vane (not billet)
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/191222270664

Shift kit with servo
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192270203778

Solenoid for lock up
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/123228772741

Stator
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/192499169920

All this stuff plus the salvage yard transmission I’m already at $700.
 
#26 ·
so I can figure out how much money I need to spend and if I should plan on buying a new torque converter.
Do not reinstall a torque converter of unknown condition or origin There's a great deal of effort and money involved; and you can waste it all with that maneuver.

If you got a good rebuilt transmission out of this exercise for only $700, you should consider it a blessing. :thumbsup:
 
#24 ·
All that stuff is OK except don't do the 13 vane pump keep it at stock 7 or go to 10.
The rotor on the 13 is weaker & the more vanes on the pump the less volume it puts out.

Give this guy a call & price out what you need, he'll tell you what you need to with no BS.
Tell him exactly what you are doing, if you are planning more power in the future or not.

TurboBuickPerformance.com
 
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#27 ·
That kit looks decent. Try to get a wide band added. Be sure the direct drum is in good shape and get it stoned flat and polished on a lathe. It may need the lugs welded up and fitted to the sun shell.

A hardened sun shell and stator are mandatory.

I would suggest building it as a non-lockup for ease of install and setup. Lockup is great when you have proper control, if not it's a detriment.

Use a 692 servo if it's a mild combo. Buy a billet servo if it's over 300 ish HP.
 
#28 ·
I need to figure out who can spin down the direct drum. How much is tolerable to shave off?
I saw this band. Looks like it’s wider than the high performance band that is only 2-1/4” wide.
http://www.extremeautomatics.com/productdetail.php?product=298&fromc=21&fromt=

I’d prefer lockup. Hopefully I can find someone to help me out with that and double check the tv cable so I don’t have to get a constant pressure valve body.

You think it would be ok to keep the junkyard torque converter instead of forking out $300-400 for a new one?

If I go the non lockup route will I have to get a cooler or would it be ok to still run through my radiator?
 
#29 ·
I need to figure out who can spin down the direct drum. How much is tolerable to shave off?
I saw this band. Looks like it’s wider than the high performance band that is only 2-1/4” wide.
2004R Custom X-Tra Wide High Performance Band

I’d prefer lockup. Hopefully I can find someone to help me out with that and double check the tv cable so I don’t have to get a constant pressure valve body.

You think it would be ok to keep the junkyard torque converter instead of forking out $300-400 for a new one?

If I go the non lockup route will I have to get a cooler or would it be ok to still run through my radiator?
Spending $700+ in new parts and services and then reusing a torque converter of unknown origin/condition would just be throwing good money after bad. How lucky do you feel?
 
#31 ·
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