4-spd vs 5-spd - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

 22Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 19, 10:47 AM
Senior Tech Team
Freddie
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Central City, Ky.
Posts: 9,352
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

I'm running the M23Z, but that's more than you will need. The M22Z would be plenty for you. If you go this way you will want to change the gears in the rear end to 3.07 or something in that area. This transmission isn't going to help you if you keep the 3.73 gears.
Steve R likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
big gear head is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 19, 11:35 AM
Tech Team
Al
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 229
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

I have written about my 5 speed in the past and will up-date it with you.
I had an M20 with 15" tires and 3.4:1 axel. Highway RPMs were always in the 3000 area and it was not a nice driver car on the freeway. After research I bought a specially prepared T5 as shown in the photo.

On the plus side it was a form-fit-function as in NO cutting the floor, same bell housing, same transmission cross member, same drive shaft. Gearing is great with a 3.0:1 first gear, 4th gear is 1:1 and 5th gear is 0.6:1. Highway RPM's went from 3000+ to 1900. I love this combo.

On the negative side it has a 26 spline in lieu of the 10 spline in-put shaft. This means the clutch disc needs to be 26 spline nothing more, standard stuff for a clutch supplier. The speed-O drive is different but very doable. It is a top loader, I believe it is called, so the through-the-floor shift lever is not where a M20 is with its side linkage. I made an off-set bracket and in my 65 with the factory console the lever is now in the same position as with the M20.

Some will say it is too weak for a mussel car but that is not true. I have it behind a 383 with 400+ ft. lbs. of torque and it works great. I doubt that any transmission will last long if you power shift it. My transmission builder had the gears treated (cygroenits SP) I believe it is called and as this car is a driver and not a race car it works fine.

The long and short of this I would do this again without hesitation. This transmission did not brake the bank cost wise, so if this is of interest send me a PM and I'll connect you with the local transmission builder here is Seattle... Al
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	thumbnail_IMG_0610.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	86.4 KB
ID:	606074   Click image for larger version

Name:	65 Chevelle 069.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	78.5 KB
ID:	606076  
71454Chevelle likes this.
alhewitt is offline  
post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 19, 11:52 AM
Team Member
Tom
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Mustang, OK USA
Posts: 12,472
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

I have a 70 conv with a very healthy SB400-M22W-2.73 12bolt posi.
MOST people felt that with the 2.56 1st gear and a 2.73 rear, I would be slipping the clutch a lot. NOT!!!
The 400 has plenty of torque to get the car rolling from a stop--------------even on a slight incline.
I admit that it is not a rocket from a stop, but the trade off for low hiway rpm is worth it! Also, because of the 2.73 rear, I can stay in 1st and 2nd MUCH longer, which makes it great for getting up to speed quickly when getting on the Interstate.
Previously the 70 had an M20 and 3.07 12bolt. And nothing was wrong with either of those-------------I just wanted to have the M22 whine. So I bought an M22W gear set from D&L, built my own M22 and while I was under the car I swapped the 3.07 for the 2.73 which I had recently built.
With the 1:1 4th gear of the M22W and the 2.73 rear, it's very close to what many cars with a 5spOD and a 3.73 or 4.10 rear have.

I LOVE IT!

Tom Parsons
TC# 474
#3 FOREVER!!!!!
Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak. (unknown)
DZAUTO is offline  
 
post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 19, 11:58 AM
Team Member
Tom
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Mustang, OK USA
Posts: 12,472
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

Quote:
Originally Posted by alhewitt View Post
I have written about my 5 speed in the past and will up-date it with you.
I had an M20 with 15" tires and 3.4:1 axel. Highway RPMs were always in the 3000 area and it was not a nice driver car on the freeway. After research I bought a specially prepared T5 as shown in the photo.

On the plus side it was a form-fit-function as in NO cutting the floor, same bell housing, same transmission cross member, same drive shaft. Gearing is great with a 3.0:1 first gear, 4th gear is 1:1 and 5th gear is 0.6:1. Highway RPM's went from 3000+ to 1900. I love this combo.

On the negative side it has a 26 spline in lieu of the 10 spline in-put shaft. This means the clutch disc needs to be 26 spline nothing more, standard stuff for a clutch supplier. The speed-O drive is different but very doable. It is a top loader, I believe it is called, so the through-the-floor shift lever is not where a M20 is with its side linkage. I made an off-set bracket and in my 65 with the factory console the lever is now in the same position as with the M20.

Some will say it is too weak for a mussel car but that is not true. I have it behind a 383 with 400+ ft. lbs. of torque and it works great. I doubt that any transmission will last long if you power shift it. My transmission builder had the gears treated (cygroenits SP) I believe it is called and as this car is a driver and not a race car it works fine.

The long and short of this I would do this again without hesitation. This transmission did not brake the bank cost wise, so if this is of interest send me a PM and I'll connect you with the local transmission builder here is Seattle... Al

Al,
I like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's not spinning high rpm through the gears that hurts a tranny, it's the hard banging on the gears that breaks them.

Tom Parsons
TC# 474
#3 FOREVER!!!!!
Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak. (unknown)
DZAUTO is offline  
post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 19, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium Member
Shawn
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Belmont, NY
Posts: 82
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

Quote:
Originally Posted by big gear head View Post
I'm running the M23Z, but that's more than you will need. The M22Z would be plenty for you. If you go this way you will want to change the gears in the rear end to 3.07 or something in that area. This transmission isn't going to help you if you keep the 3.73 gears.
Come on man! I just put those 3.73s in there and took out 3.08s haha.

If I'm going to put 3k into a McLeod, what about a Gear Vendor unit - anyone ever run one of those? That would allow a 3.73 to stay in place.

Mel0Yel068
Mel0Yel068 is offline  
post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 19, 1:04 PM
Senior Tech Team
Freddie
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Central City, Ky.
Posts: 9,352
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

GV is very strong. Some cars require slight floor modifications to make it fit. A friend of mine runs one with a M24 behind a blown small block that makes around 1000 HP. The GV has never caused any problems.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
big gear head is offline  
post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 19, 3:24 PM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 697
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS454- View Post
What rear gears do you have?

Even with 3.31s I was able to use my 0.63 6th gear on the highway.
3.73
I need to switch to a smaller cam
My cam is 250/256 @.050 on a 108
It likes to surge at anything below 1700.
If I had something in the 231/231 range I bet it would be able to handle that .63 OD much better.
tacomatrd is offline  
post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 19, 3:52 PM
Senior Tech Team
Chris
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,076
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacomatrd View Post
3.73
I need to switch to a smaller cam
My cam is 250/256 @.050 on a 108
It likes to surge at anything below 1700.
If I had something in the 231/231 range I bet it would be able to handle that .63 OD much better.

Big cams definitely are tougher to work with at low RPM's in high gear. I wonder how much is the duration itself, and how much is the overlap. Plus I wonder if EFI could be tuned better at those RPM/loads vs a carb.

1971 Chevelle SS454, T56 Magnum 6 speed, 3.31 Posi

Youtube Channel.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Instagram:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Twitter:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-SS454- is online now  
post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 19, 6:58 PM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 697
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS454- View Post
Big cams definitely are tougher to work with at low RPM's in high gear. I wonder how much is the duration itself, and how much is the overlap. Plus I wonder if EFI could be tuned better at those RPM/loads vs a carb.
I thought I replied to this.. But I may try to richen it up to 14 like yours is. I currently run 14.8 which might be why it surges below 1800. I doubt it though, the cam is relatively large.
tacomatrd is offline  
post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 19, 10:42 PM
rkd
Team Member
Ron
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Beaufort SC
Posts: 4,981
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

My 66 came to me and I drove it for 5 or 6 years with the TH350 and 331 gears. Max trip was 50 miles at 70 or 75 on the interstate. Loud and miserable.

So I skipped right over the four speed deal and tried a T5 with a .90 od. If fit with no cutting, but the Od was not much.

It proved my stick conversion, and a tko 600 found it way in there. Some tunnel tinwork, yes, but now it will cruise the interstate anywhere anytime and stay with traffic. And that's with a 373 gear upgrade.

So much more fun and useful.

66 Malibu Coupe, home rebuilt 350. Took me 39 years to get her!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
rkd is offline  
post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 19, 10:56 PM
Senior Tech Team
Eric
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 1,957
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

I installed a Tremec TKO 600 in my 68 Chevelle last winter. It is powered by a 350 with an Edelbrock rolling thunder top end kit (E-tec 170 heads, hydraulic roller, air gap intake) rated at 430 HP and 3.73 gears. I love the trans and the driveability. I used OEM pedals and clutch linkage. The floor required minor tunnel mods. I ended up raising the tunnel about one inch in the center. It is unnoticeable with the carpet installed. With a 275/60/15 tire, I can cruise 75 mph at 2200 RPM. I put 2000 miles on it during Power Tour with no complaints.
71350SS and Mel0Yel068 like this.
dell72 is offline  
post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 22nd, 19, 2:25 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
Tony
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 17,182
Garage
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

I haven't heard anyone here mention the Richmond 5-speed OD and 6-speed...

The Richmond 5-speed (and 6-speed) will be almost a direct swap for the Muncie: same overall length means using the same driveshaft (may need a different slip yoke depending on the model/ output size/splines), same basic shifter location (on the side), bolts to the stock bellhousing, and uses the stock clutch (but depends on the model and your current clutch, comes in both 10-spline and 26-spline configurations as the stock Muncies. And most important, IMO, NO tunnel mods ( I did use a BFH for the Long shift linkage heim joint).

IIRC, I may have slid my crossmember back on the frame a few inches (I think the front hole in the crossmember lined up with the rear factory hole in the frame).

You might even be able to find an older version (Doug Nash)…


I ended up swapping in a Richmond Road Race version in place of the Muncie. Easy job... But it was the non-OD version (1:1 5th). But I wanted to build a new rearend (the rearend belonged to my other Chevelle), so I built a 12-bolt with 2.73 gears and positraction… With the 3.04 first gear and 2.73 rears, it was similar launch to the factory M21/3.73 or M20/3.31 set-ups. Another bonus, IMO, is the 2.73s kept the driveshaft speed low. Even with OD, you may be spinning your driveshaft too fast for its design (or figure $$$ for a new driveshaft)...
Steve R and big gear head like this.

Once you go RAT, you never go back...
TC #1366

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sold

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sold
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
1966_L78 is offline  
post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 22nd, 19, 8:47 AM
Senior Tech Team
Freddie
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Central City, Ky.
Posts: 9,352
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

Yes, the factory drive shaft causes problems many time when using an overdrive transmission with low gears in the rear end. The drive shaft spins too fast and causes a vibration through the whole car.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
big gear head is offline  
post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 22nd, 19, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
Lifetime Premium Member
Shawn
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Belmont, NY
Posts: 82
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

Hey guys, so I took the ole girl out last night when I went to the gym and there's about 5 miles of straight between here and there. I ran it in 3rd (1:1) and the RPMs are higher than I estimated, its more like 2800 @ 60 mph. I checked a couple online calculators to make sure that was right, and it appears to be. The torque is right under your foot and fun, but that's just too much RPM for my taste. I guess I'll just save my pennies for a McLeod or Richmond, keep my eyes peeled for a nice used unit.

Mel0Yel068
Mel0Yel068 is offline  
post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old Oct 22nd, 19, 10:54 AM
Senior Tech Team
Pat
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 1,251
Re: 4-spd vs 5-spd

I installed a TKO600 in my 70SS last winter. For what your looking for I would never spend the money on T56. My TKO from Silver Sport went in with no tunnel mods, just had to tap the floor up a little around the shifter hole. Best thing I have done to the car. I have 3.73's and it is a joy to drive on the highway now. I came from an M0 and have ZERO regrets.
Pats70ss is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome