Well folks, I took the plunge and bought McLeod’s 5 speed. It’s going in an original 1970 4 speed SS396 with center console. I got the Muncie M20 out of the car today and I’m setting up to find concentric on the bellhousing tomorrow. The instructions only ask for concentric. Not parallelism. I called McLeod about it and was told to follow the directions that come with the transmission.
My first impressions of the transmission are that it is only slightly bulkier than the M20. If you have a center console the shifter measures exactly where the original is. So I have every reason to have confidence about shifter location lining up.
I have replaced all the body-to-frame mounts with urethane pucks from Energy Suspension. The top shifter rail and top plate are a bit tall but the overall case is convex from top center to the top starboard and port side of the transmission.
I currently have the original 402 big block in it with a Comp hydraulic roller and Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap. It dyno’d at 420hp and 500tq with the stock oval port heads (no head work) It’s an L34 package and perfect for the McLeod with 500/500 restrictions on HP and TQ. It also has the original 12 bolt with 3.31’s in the back.
I’ll post more as I go but will get pics of a side-to-side comparison ASAP. I went with this transmission because of the narrower top than a TKO. I know those are better built but didn’t want to take a chance of having to cut the car to make it work. McLeod informed my that they designed the case with GM A-bodies in mind.
I plan on cleaning up the flat surfaces with scotch brite pad and and high grit sandpaper then filing flat what I need to to get the block surface as flat as possible.
I asked McLeod about parallelism but they said to follow what’s in the instructions. I don’t have a dial indicator with the plunger on the back of it, so I’m not real enthused about finding parallelism but I guess I have to bite the bullet and work that out somehow. I just don’t know where to get shims for it. Grainger only shows them in bulk quantities an I know I’ll only need a few for my application.
I have the McLeod Super Street Pro clutch and pressure plate kit for 26 spline. I also asked McLeod if it was fine to use the stock z-bar clutch linkage and was told I could. I’m also using the stock 621 bell housing. The car has Chevy High Performance Parts flywheel for internally balance big blocks.
They don’t specify what kind of pilot bushing. Step 11 in the instructions say “Install pilot bushing.” Not a pilot bearing. I have a new bronze bushing from Summit that I will install while doing the assembly.
I have read on multiple sites about the early teething problems from this transmission but have seen reviews of them being remedied and performing quite good now. However the instructions specifically say DO NOT install slicks on your car with this tranny. Even though it’s rated for 500/500 it’s still just a hulled up T5 with a higher performance gear set, but not designed for racing. Just spirited street cars with street tires.
More than anything I want to check fitment for the tunnel. I think I might even be able to use my stock crossmember. Possibly the drive shaft too. It uses a TH400 output spline which I will need to get changed for the yoke.
Install your bearing then check the installed dimension. You should have .002 to .003 clearance on the trans pilot shaft. If not a .593 reamer is available for about $20,00. I'm assuming Mcleod stayed with a .590 size on the pilot input shaft.
Your flywheel should be new or resurface if used if you intend to install a new clutch set up.
Install your flywheel, then hold the clutch disc up to it to make sure it clears the flywheel mounting bolts.
Just figured I would throw in some easy checks to help you avoid issues down the line.
Here are the pics of the Muncie and The McLeod side by side for comparison. The input shaft on the McLeod is about a 16th shorter than the Muncie. Will I need to use a longer pilot gearing for that difference?
The shifters line up nearly perfect. The trans mounts are off quite a bit, by around 2”. But the plate on the McLeod has 1 1/4” slots to bolt the mount to. You can barely see the Muncie trans mount it the pic of the trannys from the driver side is of them. Thanks
I am scratching my head about the shifter itself on the McLeod not have splines line the typical Hurst shifters. Will I have to get a new handle for it? Thanks.
Here are the pics of the Muncie and The McLeod side by side for comparison. The input shaft on the McLeod is about a 16th shorter than the Muncie. Will I need to use a longer pilot gearing for that difference?
The shifters line up nearly perfect. The trans mounts are off quite a bit, by around 2”. But the plate on the McLeod has 1 1/4” slots to bolt the mount to. You can barely see the Muncie trans mount it the pic of the trannys from the driver side is of them. Thanks
I am scratching my head about the shifter itself on the McLeod not have splines line the typical Hurst shifters. Will I have to get a new handle for it? Thanks.
NOW, not to hi jack this thread but I have been looking at this same setup for a 65 A body. As you all know the earlier A bodies offset the shifter to the driver side with a hump added to the floor/tunnel. I have contacted McLeod but they only make an offset shifter set up from customer specs for about $300. The reason I was looking at this setup is to avoid modifications to the floor / tunnel like a TKO requires. In order to do this one would have to purchase the trans, install it in the car with crossmember mods etc, and then measure to the new location and supply them with the new numbers. They state that they can only move it so far right or left or forward and back. NOW for the big question. Have any of you ever done this and did it work without modifications to the floor? If so do you have the numbers that were required to get the stick to come up in the correct location? thanks in advance for any information.
Holy crap guys!!!! I decided to do a test fit before I go any further with concentric and parallelism. It fit with no mods at all. The round fixture of the shifter base does touch to shifter hole on each side of it, but it does fit. I can massage that area of the shifter hole but I see know reason to rip out a cutting wheel or even tip snips. I took pics of it both in the car and under it. It should also clear my center console.
I was even able to use my original cross member and trans mount. Rarely does anything fit like this for me. I still have to do concentric and parallel, but I feel confident with this now.
The trans is still mount in the car and I won’t be able to get to it till later in the week. So I couldn’t tell you for sure. Here is one of the pics I took that you can barely make out some numbers scribed on the front of the counter shaft. That might also be a good question for McLeod’s technical staff. I’ll let you know what it is when I get to it. I have to believe this is based on the WC T5. Thanks.
I bought it from Jegs. $2800 plus the reverse speed drive at $140. They have a 60 day return policy. So that gives me plenty of time to get it installed and sorted out.
I bought it from Jegs. $2800 plus the reverse speed drive at $140. They have a 60 day return policy. So that gives me plenty of time to get it installed and sorted out.[/QUOTE]
I really wanted to try this trans. Glad it fits in your '70...it looks like it won't fit in my '67 with a console. The shifter is not in the center on a '67... Dammit.
Yes looks like a almost perfect combo. Way easier on the engine on the Interstate and the mileage should be better also. Keep the installation pics and info coming. Thinking about doing this with my 66 Chevelle that currently has a M20 in it with 3.73. gears.
I have two magazine articles that say different. The LS1 T56 is not near as big as the magnum. And there are places on the forward case (ears) that should be sawed off for clearance.
I will report back but expect to be cutting around the shifter - and that's all.
Hmm, My .02¢.
I was going to use 4.27 gears with my .78 GV OD and 27" tires but after speaking with other users went with 3.92 instead.
High PM cam and still not going to be idling down the freeway but should be livable.
One other thing I should mention. Sounds like your engine is inztalled. I had quite a time removing the dowels on my original 396. You may want to skim over this thread if you have to develop a plan to remove dowels while the engine is installed.
BLM, thanks for the link. Yes the engine is in the car. I have been racking my brain on the amount of hassle this is going to be with the factory dowel pin removal. Another forum for Corvettes or maybe Camaros had a user come up with something called a Jack bolt. This sounds like the same thing. In the end, it is what it is. Thank you.
I went though this about a month ago in my Camaro. Dialing in the bell housing with the engine in the car is a real pain. I made my offset dowels and I cut a hex on the end so that I could use a socket with extensions to turn the dowels. It was easier, but still a pain. The Robmc dowels shouldn't be too hard to deal with since you can loosen them in the hole and turn them.
It's been almost 12 years, but I made a piece of 1/2" Keystock, 30 inches long and ground round on the end and heated/bent to about 22 degrees for driving out the dowels with the engine in the car. Even with 2 " primary tube Hedman Headers it worked pretty well.
Guys, I am busting my hump on this concentric process. I got the parallelism with in .003 and that’s the best I can do. I ran concentric 3 times and came up with these numbers on the bell housing. The top of the bore is at zero. Each side of the bell housing is showing negative. I wrote those numbers on. The face of the bell housing. What do I do now? I had to use an inspection mirror when the dial was difficult to see. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I took picks to review. Thank.
I believe you set up wrong. If you set your most negative number at zero then you should be getting positive numbers as the run out. Here is a thread that lists the procedure. Maybe you should review it. Look at post #6
Just a couple things.
1. Do you have the tip of the pointer of the indicator in the center of the opening in the bell housing? I'm talking about the opening that you are measuring.
2. The measurements you have at 9 oclock and 3 oclock dont make sense. For those to be correct the hole would have to be oblong instead of round.
I believe you set up wrong. If you set your most negative number at zero then you should be getting positive numbers as the run out. Here is a thread that lists the procedure. Maybe you should review it. Look at post #6
Just a couple things.
1. Do you have the tip of the pointer of the indicator in the center of the opening in the bell housing? I'm talking about the opening that you are measuring.
2. The measurements you have at 9 oclock and 3 oclock dont make sense. For those to be correct the hole would have to be oblong instead of round.
Blm, I modified my set up. Take a look at the pics below. Your item number 2 Is exactly what I was thinking. So it’s making me scratch my head about this bell housing and if it’s good enough to use anymore.
I haven’t taken the new measurements yet, but I will be making the 12 o’clock position zero, not the 6 o’clock. This is just for illustration at this point. Thanks
As blm said, zero out the most negative position. This is important because this is the direction the bellhousing needs to move. In theory, exactly 180 degree's to your zero'd out position should show the largest number on your gauge.
So I made 12:00 zero and ran the entire rotation twice. The pics below show them at 12, 9, 6, and 3 o’clock.
12 is zero
3 is -.012
6 is -.023
9 is -.013
All the measurements other than zero show negative. I just want to make sure I’m doing this right and not spending time trying to make a bell housing work that’s use no good. Thanks
When a bellhousing is properly dialed in with the parallel alignment, you will achieve reciprocity with your concentric dial indicator reading. When the bellhousing retainer hole is flat and parallel to the crankshaft hub, the 12:00 to 6:00 dimension will equal the 9:00 to 3:00 dimension, hence reciprocity. Since you do not have reciprocity in your concentric reading, you are reading an oval. With your 9:00 to 3:00 dimension greater than your !2:00 to 6:00 dimension, you have an oval hole; your bellhousing top or bottom must be shimmed out to correct your parallel mis-alignment.
So you guys can easily visualize what reciprocity of a circle is; take any round circle and tilt it on a 45* degree angle and while looking through the hole, that round circle will now be an oval hole. With 1000s of bellhousing alignments through the years, I can tell by the concentric reading if a bellhousing is out of parallel alignment by the reciprocity of the hole reading.
Here is what I would do. I would take my dial calipers and make measurements at 6-8 different positions around the opening of that bell housing to determine if it is out of round. Have never heard of that but guess it is possible.
Also you need to make the 6 o'clock position the zero. Not the 12 o'clock. That is backwards
0 and -.023 = -.023. -.012 and -.013 = -.025, so the hole is about .002 out of round. I don't think that is a problem. You just need to get it moved into the right position. Looks like all you need is a move up about .012.
Be sure that your magnetic base is not rocking as you turn the crankshaft. Weight can cause the base to rock slightly as you turn it. I had this problem a few years ago and was about to pull my hair out because every time I moved the dowels I got numbers that didn't make since. I finally figured out that the magnetic base was not sitting completely flat and was moving slightly as I rotated the crankshaft.
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