Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 10th, 19, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

Greetings. Trying to pick out a clutch for my 67. Need some insight on what you guys like. : Set-up is: 496/ 630tq/590hp. Super t-10, richmond aluminum case, 26 input,32 output, 11" 168 flywheel 12 bolt. Car will see street-cruise/light strip action. 12" drag radials, posi unit. I think that's all the variables to consider.

I looked at the hydraulic clutches because of easier install. However I've already ordered my Lakewood blowproof bell housing, clutch fork, etc. Also have the 4 speed conversion kit on back order; can cancel if need be. I think I need a dual clutch set-up with this combo, right? What are you guys running? Ram, Mcleod?

Can't afford the best, but I l know a good clutch isn't cheap also, trying to stay about $500 or lower. Thanks a bunch!!
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 10th, 19, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

Forgot to ask, are any of you guys using the Mcleod Street extreme clutch, single disc? Kinda looking at him for $350.00 or the RAM powergrip hd, single disc for $409.00? Thanks
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 10th, 19, 1:07 PM
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

If you want a clutch to hold lots of power, you need a multiple disc clutch. Singles aren't up to the task.
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 10th, 19, 3:54 PM
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

Agree with Jon IF you value your street manners. If not, a metallic single disc will work. You can try a ceramic puk design also but it's a compromise for both street and strip. A good dual disc is the answer and they're far above $500. It's more a question of if you want to change the clutch if you make the wrong choice.
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 10th, 19, 4:05 PM
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

I'm using the RXT in my 427 Camaro with 14 inch slicks, but the RST should work for what you want. I installed the street extreme in a customer's car and it's holding up pretty well behind a 383.
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 10th, 19, 6:03 PM
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

Street/strip + drag radial + stick?

First thing to remember about running radials with a stick is that radials need to dead hook at the dragstrip.
Second thing to remember is that when you dead hook, the clutch then has to do all the slipping that's necessary to avoid a bog.
Third thing to remember is that the hit of the clutch is what controls how fast the engine loses rpm during a dead hook stick shift launch.

As a general example, lets say you install a clutch that can hold 1000ft/lbs behind an engine that only makes around 600. If you launch the car and allow that clutch to hit with it's full 1000ftlb capacity, it's going to instantly pull an additional 400ftlbs of inertia out of the rotating assy, which in turn causes the engine to lose rpm pretty quickly. That's because extra clutch capacity, beyond what it takes to hold the engine's torque, is what controls how fast the clutch pulls the engine down. Too much extra clutch torque capacity, the clutch either pulls the engine down too fast (bog), knocks the tires loose (spin), or breaks drivetrain parts. But if you dialed the initial hit of that 1000ftlb clutch all the way back to around 700ftlbs, it still holds all of the engine's 600ftlbs of torque, except now it only pulls engine rpm down at a much slower 100ftlb rate. Because the car is gaining speed while the clutch is pulling the engine down, the result of the slower pulldown rate is that the engine doesn't get pulled down as far.

Below is an attached graph based on the average acceleration rate for a 1.40 60'...

Let's say for this example that line "A" represents that 1000ftlb clutch, hitting with it's full 1000ftlbs of holding power. 1000ftlbs of holding power is going to pull that 600ftlb engine down at a very quick 400ftlb rate. If the car were able to dead hook that 1000ftlbs of torque, the result would be the engine getting pulled all the way down to about 1800rpm in about 0.325sec. Even if the engine were still making 600ftlbs at 1800rpm, that's only 205hp thru the low point of the bog. Obviously that 60' is going to suck.

Lots of racers will tell you that radials with a stick just won't work, but a clutch hit controller can make it easy to dial in the hit of the clutch from the driver's seat. If you were to use one to cut the initial hit of that 1000ftlb clutch back to 900ftlbs, it's not going to pull the engine down as fast, which gives the car more time to accelerate before engine rpm sync's up with vehicle speed (that sync point is where the clutch actually stops slipping). The result would look more like line "B", as the slower pulldown rate raised the sync point to about 20mph. That raises bog rpm to about 2800 where the engine is obviously going to make a lot more power than it did at 1800.

Backing the hit of that 1000ftlb clutch off to 800 would result in something like line "C", where the engine stays above 3700. Now the low point of the bog is up to around 420hp.

Back the hit off to around 700ftlbs and it would look more like line "D", as the clutch is now only pulling 100ftlbs of inertia out of the rotating assy. That extra slip time allows the engine to stay closer to it's sweet spot for HP production, now it's up to about 550hp thru the low point of the bog.

Dual disc + hit controller would be a good choice for a nice street clutch that will also perform at the track. Smaller dia RXT discs play well with synchros.

For a lower cost single disc, Ram's Powergrip HD + hit controller would be my choice.

Grant
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 19, 7:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

Thanks everyone for the insight! Never heard of a "hit" adjustment, but then again I don't go to the track that much. THANKS!
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 19, 11:15 AM
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How about the super t10, will that thing hold up to the power?
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 19, 11:20 AM
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by JF74chevelle View Post
How about the super t10, will that thing hold up to the power?
X2 on your Super T-10 holding up. If you install a clutch that will grab hard and some sticky rear tires, you will soon be shopping for a new transmission.
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 19, 11:53 AM
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

CF DF still working great behind my 502 and 4000lb car after repeated abuse for years.
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 19, 12:09 PM
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by big gear head View Post
I'm using the RXT in my 427 Camaro with 14 inch slicks, but the RST should work for what you want. I installed the street extreme in a customer's car and it's holding up pretty well behind a 383.
Freddie, have you ran at the track with your Clutch Tamer yet?

To the OP, I'm running a McLeod RST with a hydraulic throw out bearing, and it is very easy pedal effort. I think the setup is nice for mostly street setups. It will be way above your $500 limit though.

Your Trans will probably go, but that's the price for having a high HP engine. I blew three 12 bolt differentials before going to a Trutrac, and that was with 4.10 gears and 275/60/15 ET Street SS tires. I had a bad bog, but I made some changes to my EFI that might take care of most of the bog. I haven't tried it at the track after all the changes though, but it runs a whole lot better on the street. After blowing my first differential, it also slightly twisted the trans yoke on my new 1350 joint aluminum drive shaft. Also, aftermarket axles should also be on the list. That $500 clutch budget may expand a little, sorry.
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 19, 12:17 PM
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

Iím running the ram Powergrip hd behind 600hp/600 tq. The sinistered iron disc is a little aggressive and chatters a bit on take offÖ. but.....my moser has 3.08 gears. Trans is from Paul, an autogear M22z, 2.98 first gear. Take off ratio is a little on the low side at 9.17.

Iím also running M/T et street ss radial, itís 28Ē mounted on 10Ē wheel (295/55-15). Almost ready to go to a 30Ē tire and 3.55 gears, thatíll get me to a 10.57 take off ratio, which I think will make the clutch a little happier, and only increase my 65 mph rpms by 182.

Back to the clutch, itís been great so far, had it apart just the other week to change out a defective T/O bearing, hardly any wear at all, flywheel looked good too. As was mentioned in a previous post, try and match the clutch holding power to your engine output.
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 19, 1:33 PM
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

I am also wondering this; after abusing a few Centerforce dual frictions with my 427 over the years. It is a decent clutch, but "hits" pretty hard for strip use. Grant can maybe graph one for us! But I know that is a limitation versus an adjustable dual disk. The 427 never dished out FT LBS to speak of, and now, like FS, I'm "upgrading" to a NON 7500 rpm motor that makes 600 fl lbs off idle. I am tempted due to funds to run the CF DF again. Also that I dont know what other clutch to try. And its not like swapping carbs! So all ears here..... In fact, I was going to call Jody and ask what he likes.

SO far, I'll likely stick with the CF DF, but I know its harder on parts than a "slipperier" clutch.


Dang MarkP, I know Pro Mod cars that cant twist their shafts. We're talking 6 sec rides.
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 19, 2:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

Thanks for the input guys. Here's what I know about the trans. It is a "back up" trans for Nascar, ARCA, NASCAR Sportsman, Hotters Pro cup, never used, bought out of the team's trailer. It's basically a super t-10 on steroids. The driver I bought it from said it was way stronger than a super t-10. He said it would be rated more like 800hp-1000hp unit. It has a richmond case, 26 input/ 32 output, mid-plate, bronze bushings and straight cut italian gears, reinforced tail unit, breather, etc. It is similar to the t-tex or jericho units. In fact, I'm gonna play hell with my shifter mechanism on this tail shaft because the shifter lines very far to the passengers side and I don't have a speedometer. I've been talking to different sources about how to make this trans work in a street car. I'll probably have to get custom made shifting rods or find some kind of spacer that will bring it in line in the tunnel to marry up with a 4 speed console. Anyway, I don't think the trans will be the "weak link". From guys that have seen it, they say it is "overkill" with my engine or will be PLENTY to get the job done.

I don't see myself abusing the car such as a 4,000rpm launch with slicks because I know something will have to give......maybe the 12 bolt, maybe the trans or who knows, but damn sure my wallet!

I'm not looking to run 6.50's or run a stupid low gear like a 4.88. First gear is 2.64, second, 1.75, third, 1.34. A 3.73 would be max but I'll probably go with a 3.31 or 3.55. I need to be able to drive on interstate around 80 or so without frying my engine. I wanted a 5 speed but it didn't work out that way. Oh, I do have a steel flywheel which I read is more street friendly.

So, bottom line, I need those back tires to spin a little, maybe just get nasty at a 30-40 mph roll. I hope I want be buying clutches often, but I've kinda landed on the Ram Powergrip HD 900 series (650 hp), single iron/organic disc for $409.00. I like the McLeod RST but can't swing the $752.00. I'll just baby the car around until I get a nice bonus check and then give it hell.
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 19, 4:35 PM
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Re: Clutch recommendation please BBC, 600 hp

That transmission is going to make a huge amount of noise. Jody can get you a better deal on the clutch.

I have been using the clutch tamer, but still have some learning to do as far as getting it tuned.
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