12 Bolt Upgrade - Chevelle Tech
Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 8th, 19, 7:30 PM Thread Starter
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800xcr
 
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12 Bolt Upgrade

I'm having my 12 bolt updated to have the large Ford bearing ends to eliminate C-clip concerns. I also want to add disc brakes at the same time. What setups have been used with success. I will still be using 15x8 ralley wheels.
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 8th, 19, 7:56 PM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by 800XCR View Post
I'm having my 12 bolt updated to have the large Ford bearing ends to eliminate C-clip concerns. I also want to add disc brakes at the same time. What setups have been used with success. I will still be using 15x8 ralley wheels.
I would keep the c-clips because the disc brakes will retain the axle if it ever breaks.
And I'm not sure if chevy disc brakes will work with the large bearing ends. You might have to use ford disc brakes.

I'm going with 2002 Camaro 12" disc brakes on my 12 bolt and keeping the c-clip setup with a true-trac center and moser axles.
The 12" brakes require 17" wheels. There are setups that will fit under the 15" wheels.

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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 8th, 19, 9:37 PM
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Eric
 
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

I had a 12 bolt built the same way, Ford "Torino" style housing ends and Moser 33 spline axles. I used a rear disc kit from The Right Stuff along with Wheel Vintiques brand 15 x 8 rally wheels. It worked great with no complaints. I now have the same set up on a fabricated 9 inch.
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 19, 3:09 AM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville beth View Post
I would keep the c-clips because the disc brakes will retain the axle if it ever breaks.
And I'm not sure if chevy disc brakes will work with the large bearing ends. You might have to use ford disc brakes.

I'm going with 2002 Camaro 12" disc brakes on my 12 bolt and keeping the c-clip setup with a true-trac center and moser axles.
The 12" brakes require 17" wheels. There are setups that will fit under the 15" wheels.

You ever see a axle break at the track? Very violent and destructive to the car. And very dangerous to the Driver and Spectators. These is no way, no how those little bitty ass 10mm, 3/8 or whatever size caliper bolts are going to hold the axle in.
OP, Do it the right and safe way and go the Ford housing ends and contact Wilwood. They makes brake kits for all kinds of axle flanges.


https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitAxleFlange
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 19, 11:27 AM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

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Originally Posted by Yukon0724 View Post
You ever see a axle break at the track? Very violent and destructive to the car. And very dangerous to the Driver and Spectators. These is no way, no how those little bitty ass 10mm, 3/8 or whatever size caliper bolts are going to hold the axle in.
The ford bearing ends have leakage problems and the sealed roller bearings have a shortened life- especially if you go on long trips.

The c-clip design is better for street cars IMHO. The danger of breaking a Moser axle is pretty small and it's just your opinion that a rear caliper can't hold that axle in.

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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 19, 2:29 PM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

From the Moser Engineering website :

Can C-Clip Eliminators be used on the street?

A. We do NOT recommend using C-Clip Eliminators for street use; a C-Clip Eliminator is made for drag race only ( As a safety issue so you do not loose an axle, if it breaks ).C-Clip Eliminators are made for the straight shot down the strip. If you use C-Clip Eliminators on the street the aluminum block will eventually flex from cornering or just going around curves causing the C-Clip Eliminator to leak Rear-end fluid.

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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 19, 3:04 PM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

Ford Ends are not C-Clip Eliminators. They are bolt-in axles. OP never mentioned C-Clip Eliminators.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 19, 3:47 PM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville beth View Post
The ford bearing ends have leakage problems and the sealed roller bearings have a shortened life- especially if you go on long trips.

The c-clip design is better for street cars IMHO. The danger of breaking a Moser axle is pretty small and it's just your opinion that a rear caliper can't hold that axle in.
I've never heard that before and if you don't care for sealed ball bearings then use the Big Ford tapered axle bearings.

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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 19, 4:21 PM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville beth View Post
The ford bearing ends have leakage problems and the sealed roller bearings have a shortened life- especially if you go on long trips.

The c-clip design is better for street cars IMHO. The danger of breaking a Moser axle is pretty small and it's just your opinion that a rear caliper can't hold that axle in.
Beth, I have made my 12 bolt about as strong as I could. It has the large Ford ends welded on etc etc. It hasn't leaked yet with several years of abuse. I ran it for years with 33 spline axles and no leaks. Now has 35 spline axles and no leaks. The welding was done by a professional shop who knew what they were doing. Tubes were welded to the housing as well. Pretty happy thus far. C Clips were a poor design in my opinion.
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 19, 4:38 PM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

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Originally Posted by David Bates View Post
I've never heard that before and if you don't care for sealed ball bearings then use the Big Ford tapered axle bearings.
That is straight off Moser's website.

I'm no expert, I've just been reading up on 12 bolt mods because I plan on taking my 12 bolt to Freddie (big gear head).

I found this; it sounds like the weld-on ends with tapered roller bearings will work good on the street:

Freddie : The Moser 12 bolt would be a good choice. You will want the Truetrac differential for road racing because it is smoother than the Eaton or other differentilas. This will help with traction when turning. You will also want the tapered roller bearings because they handle side loads better. These are 9 inch Ford axle bearings which will eliminate the c clips.

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Last edited by nashville beth; Apr 9th, 19 at 4:56 PM.
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 19, 5:07 PM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

It seems like pulling teeth to get the right info ; The ford ends you guys are talking about are fine for the street.
Moser's website had me really confused. Sorry
--------

There are C-clip eliminator kits on the market, but our experience with these has been less than successful. The usual problem is leakage. This may be acceptable for a low mileage drag car but for a street-driven car, this just wonít work. Plus, the pillow blocks required for these conversions means you can do a rear disc brake conversion. The alternative is to take your housing to a specialist, have them cut off the factory housing end, and weld on a new end that uses the popular 3.150-inch large Ford axle bearing that is pressed on to the axle shaft. The axles now are retained by a four-bolt ring that will keep the axle in the housing should there be a problem. While the conversion will require new axles, it isnít that expensive and is the best way to upgrade a 12-bolt or 8.8 Ford rear housing.

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2014/...12-bolt-axles/

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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 19, 5:24 PM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville beth View Post
That is straight off Moser's website.

I'm no expert, I've just been reading up on 12 bolt mods because I plan on taking my 12 bolt to Freddie (big gear head).

I found this; it sounds like the weld-on ends with tapered roller bearings will work good on the street:

Freddie : The Moser 12 bolt would be a good choice. You will want the Truetrac differential for road racing because it is smoother than the Eaton or other differentilas. This will help with traction when turning. You will also want the tapered roller bearings because they handle side loads better. These are 9 inch Ford axle bearings which will eliminate the c clips.
That reference you posted before is for C-Clip eliminators which are not the same as weld on housing ends for the large Ford (3.15" diameter) sealed ball bearings which also eliminate the need for the C-Clip.
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Last edited by David Bates; Apr 9th, 19 at 5:51 PM.
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 9th, 19, 6:20 PM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bates View Post
That reference you posted before is for C-Clip eliminators which are not the same as weld on housing ends for the large Ford (3.15" diameter) sealed ball bearings which also eliminate the need for the C-Clip.
Thanks David.

I've been looking for an explanation about the different options.

So the tapered bearings are an upgrade for the 3.15" ends ?
Supposedly for better side load tolerance ?

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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 10th, 19, 10:40 PM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville beth View Post
That is straight off Moser's website.

I'm no expert, I've just been reading up on 12 bolt mods because I plan on taking my 12 bolt to Freddie (big gear head).

I found this; it sounds like the weld-on ends with tapered roller bearings will work good on the street:

Freddie : The Moser 12 bolt would be a good choice. You will want the Truetrac differential for road racing because it is smoother than the Eaton or other differentilas. This will help with traction when turning. You will also want the tapered roller bearings because they handle side loads better. These are 9 inch Ford axle bearings which will eliminate the c clips.

When I got my Chevelle it said came with a 12 Bolt Positraction...Well, it didn't when we opened it up...12 bolt yes, but Open...So installed the Eaton Detroit TruTrac Differential...[ So glad it didn't ] ...https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/catal...dex.htm#tabs-1

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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old Apr 11th, 19, 7:38 AM
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Re: 12 Bolt Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by 800XCR View Post
I'm having my 12 bolt updated to have the large Ford bearing ends to eliminate C-clip concerns. I also want to add disc brakes at the same time. What setups have been used with success. I will still be using 15x8 ralley wheels.
I had Pyle Brothers in Baytown do my 12 bolt. The put Ford ends on, added Wilwood disc, Moser Axels, and best of all, the Eaton TruTrac.

Great setup. The TruTrac requires no additive, is super strong, and it does what a good Posi is supposed to do.
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