Clutch chatter in reverse - Chevelle Tech
Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

 7Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 19, 3:57 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Justin
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 1,136
Garage
Clutch chatter in reverse

Hey guys I’m having clutch chatter in reverse only when everything is warmed up. Will happen flat ground and trying to back up on a slight incline is almost impossible. Doesn’t really chatter when taking off.

Set up is Muncie m20 with 3.73s. Centerforce DF clutch with about 250 miles on it. Resurfaced flywheel.

1974 chevelle with 73 laguna nose sbc 357 Brodix IK180 heads Comp Cams XE274H Edelbrock RPM airgap 650 AED double pumper, M20 muncie, Truetrac with 3.73s
JF74chevelle is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 19, 4:40 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Justin
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 1,136
Garage
New motor mounts and transmission mounts as well. All rubber.

1974 chevelle with 73 laguna nose sbc 357 Brodix IK180 heads Comp Cams XE274H Edelbrock RPM airgap 650 AED double pumper, M20 muncie, Truetrac with 3.73s
JF74chevelle is online now  
post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 19, 7:30 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Al
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SO CAL...Huntington Beach and Rancho Cucamonga
Posts: 5,138
Garage
Re: Clutch chatter in reverse

That's a common complaint on these cars. It's also more common with the CF DF clutch.

The DF clutch is performance oriented. It wants to grab not slip as much as a stock disc.

It may be caused by torque movement of the engine or trans. Check your linkage points, bellhousing bolts. A more solid type of motor/trans mount may help. U joints, excessive rear pinion play or worn rear end bushings. Any slop could show up as chatter.

I'm overlooking the typical signs of clutch chatter as yours is only in reverse. Watch for any oil leaks, this may be a sign of a developing issue.

To get by, raise your rpms a bit and slip it while backing if you can't fully release the clutch. Hopefully you don't need to back too often, because this can cause hot spots to develop and you'll be chattering all the time.

You can call CF, they will probably tell you to break in the clutch gently for the next 250 miles. They are pretty adamant about their break in procedure.

Do a Google search on reverse clutch chatter and you'll be amazed by the results and lack of real fixes. https://www.google.com/search?ei=xYK...60.PW80rRWh_qE

https://www.google.com/search?biw=12...iz._UdbbtXSG1g
DUTCH MAX HEADWORK is online now  
 
post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 19, 8:04 PM
Senior Tech Team
jerry
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: portland oregon
Posts: 6,792
Re: Clutch chatter in reverse

Very common topic and Al has given great info in the past, just search his posts. I'm having the same issues with a McLeod SSPro which is a tad more aggressive than the CF DF. It has mellowed a fair amount after 500 or so engagements. Hard to count, but evertime I go out I make sure I rack up at least 100 so I'm sure it's beyond that number. McLeod stresses a light/moderate use until 500 ins and outs. Mileage doesn't much matter. Reverse is more grabby than 1st. I never thought to change motor mounts but I'd bet that a solid mount on the driver's side and a urethane trans mount would help. I'm using stock replacement mounts, that may change. You do need to minimize the chatter with whatever methods you can think of. Your driving habits may have to change for awhile.


I might mention that I ran a CF DF in my '55 than switched to a ceramic disc, than a solid hub metallic and never had an issue with any of them. That car had solid motor mounts and urethane trans mount.
DUTCH MAX HEADWORK likes this.
cheveslakr is online now  
post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 19, 9:10 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Justin
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 1,136
Garage
So what do you guys think I should do? Switch in poly motor mounts? and I already have a poly trans mount. I added the rubber one to see if it would help with the chatter. The whole car freaking shakes.

I have a thought that it might be the flywheel, I had it surfaced and it was flat but it kinda had a rough surface on it. Could that be an issue? My old ram clutch never chattered but it it had different issues.

1974 chevelle with 73 laguna nose sbc 357 Brodix IK180 heads Comp Cams XE274H Edelbrock RPM airgap 650 AED double pumper, M20 muncie, Truetrac with 3.73s
JF74chevelle is online now  
post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 19, 9:50 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Al
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SO CAL...Huntington Beach and Rancho Cucamonga
Posts: 5,138
Garage
Re: Clutch chatter in reverse

It's probably that rough surface on the flywheel. Drive it long enough and it may get better or worse. Did you have this chatter from the start? How many miles do you figure you put on the clutch?

If you're confident about the things I mentioned in the first post, throwing motor mounts in may or may not help. You have new mounts now, so I'm guessing they won't help. Replace the flywheel and install a stock replacement clutch like LUK OR VALEO. They are more driver friendly.

I'm fairly confident that you installed the clutch correctly if you followed earlier advice and threads. If you decide to yank it again, check the runout on your flywheel. Oil, hotspots, bent disk out of spec pilot bushing or input shaft. Front bearing of the trans too. It should be good because symptoms should appear in forward gears as well.

Chevy had this issue on some of the newer Vettes. People would mention the issue to the dealer and they told them to keep driving it and it would get better. Some say that by 10,000 miles the problem diminished by 50 %.

You might be able to throw a stock replacement Valeo disc in there. Rumor has it that the CF diaphragm is just a repainted Valeo unit with weights installed. This would be a gamble, so no guarantees.
DUTCH MAX HEADWORK is online now  
post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 19, 9:56 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Justin
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 1,136
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUTCH MAX HEADWORK View Post
It's probably that rough surface on the flywheel. Drive it long enough and it may get better or worse. Did you have this chatter from the start? How many miles do you figure you put on the clutch?

If you're confident about the things I mentioned in the first post, throwing motor mounts in may or may not help. You have new mounts now, so I'm guessing they won't help. Replace the flywheel and install a stock replacement clutch like LUK OR VALEO. They are more driver friendly.

I'm fairly confident that you installed the clutch correctly if you followed earlier advice and threads. If you decide to yank it again, check the runout on your flywheel. Oil, hotspots, bent disk out of spec pilot bushing or input shaft. Front bearing of the trans too. It should be good because symptoms should appear in forward gears as well.

Chevy had this issue on some of the newer Vettes. People would mention the issue to the dealer and they told them to keep driving it and it would get better. Some say that by 10,000 miles the problem diminished by 50 %.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forums/images/Chevelles_2016/smilies/tango_face_sad.png[/IMG]

You might be able to throw a stock replacement Valeo disc in there. Rumor has it that the CF diaphragm is just a repainted Valeo unit with weights installed. This would be a gamble, so no guarantees.
Yes it has chattered from the start with this clutch. Doesn’t really seem to be getting any better. I don’t think a stock clutch will hold up to any kind of power would it?

1974 chevelle with 73 laguna nose sbc 357 Brodix IK180 heads Comp Cams XE274H Edelbrock RPM airgap 650 AED double pumper, M20 muncie, Truetrac with 3.73s
JF74chevelle is online now  
post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 19, 10:44 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Al
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SO CAL...Huntington Beach and Rancho Cucamonga
Posts: 5,138
Garage
Re: Clutch chatter in reverse

Quote:
Originally Posted by JF74chevelle View Post
Yes it has chattered from the start with this clutch. Doesnít really seem to be getting any better. I donít think a stock clutch will hold up to any kind of power would it?
450 HP on street tires might survive. Depends on the nut behind the wheel. I'd sink that ship in a week.

I'm thinking the DF clutch doesn't like that cut on the flywheel and it's grabbing. You would think it would grab in the forward gears too. So you have me stymied. The cut has a circular pattern to it, maybe it grabs while rotating one way and not the other.

I'd probably throw a new flywheel at it. That's a gamble, but I would try it with the same clutch if the disc looks ok.
DUTCH MAX HEADWORK is online now  
post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 19, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Justin
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 1,136
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUTCH MAX HEADWORK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JF74chevelle View Post
Yes it has chattered from the start with this clutch. Doesn’t really seem to be getting any better. I don’t think a stock clutch will hold up to any kind of power would it?
450 HP on street tires might survive. Depends on the nut behind the wheel.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forums/images/Chevelles_2016/smilies/tango_face_devil.png[/IMG] I'd sink that ship in a week.<img src="https://www.chevelles.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />

I'm thinking the DF clutch doesn't like that cut on the flywheel and it's grabbing. You would think it would grab in the forward gears too. So you have me stymied. The cut has a circular pattern to it, maybe it grabs while rotating one way and not the other.

I'd probably throw a new flywheel at it.
So I should try a new flywheel and see how it goes
DUTCH MAX HEADWORK likes this.

1974 chevelle with 73 laguna nose sbc 357 Brodix IK180 heads Comp Cams XE274H Edelbrock RPM airgap 650 AED double pumper, M20 muncie, Truetrac with 3.73s
JF74chevelle is online now  
post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 19, 10:54 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Al
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SO CAL...Huntington Beach and Rancho Cucamonga
Posts: 5,138
Garage
Re: Clutch chatter in reverse

Quote:
Originally Posted by JF74chevelle View Post
So I should try a new flywheel and see how it goes

I'd give it a shot.

You can try to sand out some of the roughness on that old flywheel and see if it makes a difference, not something I usually recommend, but you're so good at pulling transmissions now, it's worth a gamble.

Get it apart and see what you can see.
DUTCH MAX HEADWORK is online now  
post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 19, 11:03 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Al
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SO CAL...Huntington Beach and Rancho Cucamonga
Posts: 5,138
Garage
Re: Clutch chatter in reverse

I've always used Hays flywheels, but recent rumors say they are now made in china, Also read this thread. https://www.chevelles.com/forums/33-...n-chatter.html

My next flywheel may not be a Hays if it's made in china.

I'd be temped to throw an auto back in if I were having all these problems.
DUTCH MAX HEADWORK is online now  
post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 7th, 19, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Justin
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 1,136
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUTCH MAX HEADWORK View Post
I've always used Hays flywheels, but recent rumors say they are now made in china, Also read this thread. https://www.chevelles.com/forums/33-...n-chatter.html

My next flywheel may not be a Hays if it's made in china.

I'd be temped to throw an auto back in if I were having all these problems.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forums/images/Chevelles_2016/smilies/tango_face_crying.png[/IMG]
This Car will never see an auto again. It’s really not that big of a deal to me about working on it.
DUTCH MAX HEADWORK likes this.

1974 chevelle with 73 laguna nose sbc 357 Brodix IK180 heads Comp Cams XE274H Edelbrock RPM airgap 650 AED double pumper, M20 muncie, Truetrac with 3.73s
JF74chevelle is online now  
post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 8th, 19, 12:29 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
Al
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SO CAL...Huntington Beach and Rancho Cucamonga
Posts: 5,138
Garage
Re: Clutch chatter in reverse

If you decide to yank it again, be on the lookout for loose bolts. Before you loosen the pressure plate check to see that the plate is tight against the flywheel and all bolts are tight. I would check the run out on the crank and flywheel with a dial indicator. Check you input bearing on the trans and the input shaft bushing. Check the springs in the disk and check to see if the disc is warped or bent. Make sure there are no burs on the crank or pressure plate. Basically what you are looking for is anything that would cause misalignment.

Check those rearend bushings, especially the uppers. Movement here could cause chattering. Same as movement of the engine or trans mount.

Unfortunately, the more I have looked into the issue, the CF DG clutch is a common denominator. If not that, then some other type of high friction clutch.
DUTCH MAX HEADWORK is online now  
post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 8th, 19, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Justin
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 1,136
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUTCH MAX HEADWORK View Post
If you decide to yank it again, be on the lookout for loose bolts. Before you loosen the pressure plate check to see that the plate is tight against the flywheel and all bolts are tight. I would check the run out on the crank and flywheel with a dial indicator. Check you input bearing on the trans and the input shaft bushing. Check the springs in the disk and check to see if the disc is warped or bent. Make sure there are no burs on the crank or pressure plate. Basically what you are looking for is anything that would cause misalignment.

Check those rearend bushings, especially the uppers. Movement here could cause chattering. Same as movement of the engine or trans mount.
Thanks Al, I’ll update this thread as I get some things done.
DUTCH MAX HEADWORK likes this.

1974 chevelle with 73 laguna nose sbc 357 Brodix IK180 heads Comp Cams XE274H Edelbrock RPM airgap 650 AED double pumper, M20 muncie, Truetrac with 3.73s
JF74chevelle is online now  
post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old Apr 8th, 19, 5:15 AM
von
Lifetime Founding Member
Von
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Mooresville, IN (Indianapolis)
Posts: 14,368
Re: Clutch chatter in reverse

I had that problem too. Reverse only. Motor mounts, new stock replacement clutch plate and PP. Had flywheel faced. Nothing helped. Finally gave up. I could never understand why it was reverse only. No problem in first or any other gear (M20).

von '69 Malibu Team Chevelle Member #15
[img]

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
von is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric Fan for a 396 bbc roberto70chevelle Heating & Cooling 35 Jul 1st, 15 6:31 AM
Radiator/fan decision 72 468/400chevelle Heating & Cooling 14 Mar 30th, 15 2:30 PM
Clutch Chatter alhewitt Transmission & Driveline 15 Feb 2nd, 15 12:15 PM
Cooling issues Boneshaker8 Heating & Cooling 19 Nov 1st, 14 11:55 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome