200-4r swap prep - Chevelle Tech
Transmission & Driveline Transmissions and Differentials

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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old May 21st, 18, 1:10 PM Thread Starter
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200-4r swap prep

I was reminded to get my 200-4r ready to swap in and need your help to get it prepped. A quick refresher on my set up. 1966 Malibu, 327, Powerglide, just a cruiser and not a quarter miler. The 200 is an 86 KZF. I drove it while it was in its original 442, so I know its at least in a functioning state. One of my mechanic friends is going to go through it for me.







I'm going to try the basic TransGo - SK 2004R kit for the rebuild. What should I do for the lock up converter?

TCI lock up kit Link $98

Monster kit Link $99

American Autowire Link $72

Painless Link $181

B&M Link $210

1966 Malibu 327 200-4r
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old May 21st, 18, 3:42 PM
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

I used a stock converter for 88' MCSS.
With the TCI lock up kit. (very easy to install) Just need the Right Brake light Switch. GM# 25524848

What are you using for a shifter?

I Put a 200R4 in my 70-1, and at the time changed from Colum shift to Floor shift.
I needed to pick up the Shiftworks peices to make the stocks Staple shiftier work.
https://www.jegs.com/i/Supertrapp/84...SABEgKHIPD_BwE


This post may help you out. It has all the specifics.
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/40-2...tml#post451941

Here You Go:

OVERDRIVE SWAP INSTALL 200/700


1. Install OD Tranny to Engine as Normal Tranny would be, Use 3/8 x 1 ¼ Hardened Bolts. The Dipstick Tube for this application will slide in from the top or you can pre-install it on the tranny before installation. Use GM part #10085252(7004R) see note below or for 200R4 GM#15531900 & 14024971. Install the TV cable before mounting up the tranny, Use GM part #25515598 for the cable and a 6 mm x ½ inch bolt to secure it to the tranny.

2. For torque converter to flex plate, use metric bolts, GM part #1261968.

A. If an Inspection cover is needed, GM#14092879 will work. It is the black plastic type.

3. Trans cross member as follows: Use same style tranny mount, as before but you must use metric bolts 10mm x 1 inch, Course Pitch.

A. Hard Top (open channel chassis)-- Slide Cross member back in chassis rails, loosely bolt to tranny mount, and line up cross member holes in chassis. You might have to drill one or both of the cross member chassis holes. Usually one will line up one each side and you will have to drill one on each side also.

B. Convertible (boxed chassis rails)—as the hard top, the cross member will have to be moved back, but at least one bolt on the mounting tabs (welded to the chassis rail) will line up. Loosely bolt up the cross member to the trans mount and line up a hole on the chassis tab on each side. (700’s) There should be enough of the cross member sitting on the tab to drill and add a second mounting bolt, do so. (200’s) If not, and the cross member hangs off the back of the mounting tab, then you will have to mock up and weld a mounting tab to the chassis rail to accommodate a second bolt one each side.

C. Tighten cross member to chassis bolts, then tranny mount bolts.


4. Drive shaft-- For 200’s the length will be correct, but make sure the spline count is correct for the slip yoke, certain years vary. For 700’s you must check the slip yoke as well, but the shaft must be shortened. For all applications, it is recommended that you measure for length, and then send shaft out to a drive shaft shop to check for proper length, new u-joints and have it balanced. To measure, jack car up from the rear end, not the chassis. Measure from the seal-mounting surface on the tail of the tranny, to the center of where a u-joint cap would be in the rear end. Give that measurement to the drive shaft shop and they will figure out what the correct length would be.

5. TV Hookup at Carb—For Holley Carbs use bracket #Holley 20-95, for Q-jet carbs use GM #3973000 or the bracket sold by TCI or Bowtie-Overdrives. Q-Jets Only>>>For the stud on the carb, change the ball type stud used for the old kick down cable, and replace it with Holley #20-40. For Holley and Edelbrock>>> Don’t just replace the stud, you must buy a “Geometry Corrector” linkage plate from TCI or B&M. This will allow proper ‘swing’ of the Holley or Edelbrock linkage and provide the Stud for mounting the TV cable. Slide the TV cable through the bracket and click it in, then attack the cable end the new carb stud. Adjust cable as follows: Depress the tab on the TV cable, located where the cable goes through the bracket. This will let the sleeve on the cable slide back into the housing. Once the sleeve slides back, stop pressing the tab, and move carb linkage all the way to full throttle, this will let the sleeve ratchet out to the correct position.

6. If you’re not using a lock up type converter your done. For lock up converters, you must install a lock up control. You can purchase a kit, or make up your own. I have a list of parts needed to make up your own kit, for half the price of an aftermarket kit, and it uses all GM parts. Will post later (still writing it up).

7. Complications and Recommendations- Above part # for the dipstick tube (700R4), may be the tube only, not the tube-dipstick combo. During my recent swaps I bought some parts from Bowtie-Overdrives, these parts fit well and had the GM part label still on them. The dipstick/tube combo had only one part number, and it is unknown how it will come when ordered from GM. I like to use GM parts when I can, this makes things much easier to fix things down the road or when away from home on a trip. I purchased all my GM parts from “GMPartsDirect.com” definitely the cheapest around. Bowtie-Overdrives also has a complete line of parts needed for your swap. The 200/700 debates still forge on, and I won’t go there, but there are a few things to keep in mind. Although the 200 does not require drive shaft modification, the 200’s mount location is farther back. This does not affect an installation on a hardtop car. However, on a convertible or other model with a boxed frame, this will require a fabrication and welding of frame mounts for the cross member.


200/700 Lock-Up Wiring Kit

Parts List:

1. Delay Valve GM# 14020691
2. Vacuum Switch GM# 14014519
3. Stop Light Switch GM# 25524848
4. Toggle Switch (optional)
5. LED Light (optional)
6. Transmission Connector Plug GM# 12085533
7. Vacuum Switch Connector Plug GM# 12101914
8. Miscellaneous 14g. Wire and Terminals

Set up:

1. Ported Vacuum (zero at idle) is applied through a delay valve, then to the vacuum switch.
2. A 12v. “hot in run” wire is fed to vacuum switch.
3. The 12v. out of the vacuum switch, is fed to the cruise control side of the stop light switch. The brake light side remains the same as factory.
4. The 12v. out of the stop light switch is then fed to the A terminal on the transmission connector.
5. Optional, A toggle switch may be placed between the output of the stop light switch and the A terminal on the trans. This can be used as a manual lock up DISCONNECT, if a parts failure causes the converter to stay locked or as a manual unlock for racing. Use a high quality switch rated at least 10 amps.
6. Optional, A LED light may be placed in the circuit, this would be used as an indicator that the converter is locked. The LED will only light if power is applied to the TCC solenoid, AND when the solenoid is switched properly. The failure of the LED to light would indicate either a problem with the power circuit, or a problem with the TCC solenoid. To wire the positive leg of the LED would be tapped off the 12v. wire going to the A terminal. Take this from the point in the circuit after all other items. The negative side of the LED will be wired directly to the B terminal on the transmission. This B terminal is only grounded when the TCC solenoid is activated.
7. A ground circuit is fed to the D terminal on the transmission connector.
8. The C terminal on the transmission connector is not used.
9. See Diagram
10.

Operation:

1. At idle there is no vacuum to the vacuum switch, and therefore no power through the A circuit. The converter is unlocked.
2. At stable engine speeds, Vacuum will rise, at 10 inches of vacuum the switch will close allowing 12v. power to flow through the A circuit, locking the converter.
3. When cruising with the converter locked, it will unlock when “heavy” throttle is applied. This is accomplished when the vacuum switch senses a vacuum reading at or below 7 inches.
4. When cruising with the converter locked, it will unlock when the brakes are applied. This is accomplished when the power flowing through the A circuit is cut off at the stop light switch when the brakes are applied.
5. The converter will also unlock when you let up completely off the throttle. This will give no vacuum reading to the vacuum switch, cutting off power to the A circuit, unlocking the converter to aid in engine braking to slow the vehicle.
6. The toggle switch, although optional is recommended. This will let you keep the converter unlocked in the event of a part failure in this system. You can run with the trans unlocked, but can’t run if its stuck locked. So it’s a good idea.


AMMENDEMENT

NOTE:
#1. It has come to my attention, that with some TCC Solenoids in both 200's and 700's the LED ground as listed above will not work. You will have to run a regular chassis ground on the negative side of the LED. The only way to know for sure, is to wire it like the diagram and if it don't work, change the ground for the LED. (I just had to do that in my own swap)

#2. The lockup delay as listed is correct with the valve in place. BUT, due to individual vehicle characteristics the amount of vacuum produced will differ. For this reason the lock-up event may occur too early or too late. If this happens, you can try to use different EGR or spark delay valves, its a trial and error process. To delay lockup I recently used two of the valves listed above (one after the other).
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old May 21st, 18, 3:46 PM
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

I went with the painless kit only because it had both the brake switch and a vacuum switch included for disconnecting lockup. That is how GM did it with the mid-80's non-computer controlled pickup trucks. You can do it yourself cheaper if you know where to buy the components but I just didn't find everything when I was looking. Most of the less expensive kits do not have the vacuum switch and I would see that the owners often had to supplement with a manual disconnect switch or a tachometer switch. I figured that GM probably had it right the first time. I do like Pete's write up and would have liked to have that when I did mine. The only change I would make is that I watched ebay for an original Buick GN metal flywheel cover.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old May 21st, 18, 4:03 PM
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

[QUOTE=Dansk;10792201]I do like Pete's write up and would have liked to have that when I did mine.


Just a correction, I take no credit for this, it is not my write up , it is Rob Mirabile write up from 2004.
I used these instructions 2014 when i did my PG to 200R4 swap.
I just copy and pasted them here, since i know how good info can get buried after a lot of years. So its good to have it in multiple locations.

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old May 21st, 18, 4:30 PM
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

For my 700R4 loc up. I bought a $99.00 kit. With the $99.00 kit, NOTHING is inside my 70. You run a 12 Vt. line to the side of the tranny, Screw in an oil sending switch ( from the kit) Attach a 12 VT. wire to one side of the switch then attach a wire to the other side of the switch, Then plug in the Module to the tranny.
Then you adjust the shift points in a static position, ( engine not running).
Then drive. I run a Q-Jet. Went to a junk yard and got some measurements.
Went home and looked around the garage for stuff to make up the TV cable brackets. I used some stuff from the old 307, The nail head piece I made from a 10/32 Machine screw and mounted it on the Q-Jet.
The key measurement is from the centerline of the throttle plate, Down to the right 1 & 1/8" @ 58 degrees. Drill a hole and install the TV cable pull.
Static adjust the shift points and you are done. Its very simple. It aint the space shuttle.
I guess I got it right 9--10 years ago. My 700R4 is behind a 468 in a 4380 Lb. 1970 Chevelle Sta. Wgn. and the 700 has over 38.000 miles on it. Also, It shifts as per the G.M. book--13--36--55--loc/up. And " NO " I do not race it is a fun driver.
I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I did this when I was 69-or 70? If I can help just ask. My 468 spins 1950 RPMs at 73 MPH. with a 3:07 gear in the 12 Bolt. A big plus is 19-20 MPG on the I-State.
Have fun and enjoy.....................

Bob
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Last edited by Robinls5; May 21st, 18 at 4:58 PM.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 18, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigOiBoy View Post
I used a stock converter for 88' MCSS.
With the TCI lock up kit. (very easy to install) Just need the Right Brake light Switch. GM# 25524848

What are you using for a shifter?
I'm planning on using the current column shifter. A center console just wouldn't be right with the ol' grandma look I'm currently running. I've looked through the Shiftworks stuff before and am a little familiar with it. Will have to refresh on those parts before the install.

Thanks for linking the 200-4r build steps, it was probably missed because they refer to the transmission as just a 200. Glad to hear that you liked your TCI lock up kit.

1966 Malibu 327 200-4r
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 18, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dansk View Post
I went with the painless kit only because it had both the brake switch and a vacuum switch included for disconnecting lockup. That is how GM did it with the mid-80's non-computer controlled pickup trucks. You can do it yourself cheaper if you know where to buy the components but I just didn't find everything when I was looking. Most of the less expensive kits do not have the vacuum switch and I would see that the owners often had to supplement with a manual disconnect switch or a tachometer switch. I figured that GM probably had it right the first time. I do like Pete's write up and would have liked to have that when I did mine. The only change I would make is that I watched ebay for an original Buick GN metal flywheel cover.
Great tip on the Painless kit and the metal inspection cover. I did find it a little weird that such a piece was ever plastic.

1966 Malibu 327 200-4r
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 18, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinls5 View Post
For my 700R4 loc up. I bought a $99.00 kit. With the $99.00 kit, NOTHING is inside my 70. You run a 12 Vt. line to the side of the tranny, Screw in an oil sending switch ( from the kit) Attach a 12 VT. wire to one side of the switch then attach a wire to the other side of the switch, Then plug in the Module to the tranny.

Bob
Bob, I'll definitely ask for some help when the install happens this summer. I feel like I read your response somewhere else once. What $99 kit did you get? When you say nothing is inside your 70, you mean no extra wiring into the dash?

1966 Malibu 327 200-4r
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 18, 3:53 AM
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

I ran a 12 Vt. wire from the dash, I believe the wire I ran is only hot in the run position. You have many ways and choices to do this. I have been on this planet for a VERY long time, I love the KISS METHOD!
Another tip. If you can find an old chevy pick up that had a B.Block & T-400 in it. On the back of the factory Q-Jet, You will find a bracket with a square hole in it.
This bracket will locate the TV cable in the proper location on ANY B.Block Chevy engine. ( when using a Q-Jet) Or I used I think it was a square hole bracket that was on the 307--350-T I bolted it to the intake with one intake bolt, It has been there for 10-11 years and 38.000 miles. I also attached my Electronic Cruise control to this bracket.
The STOCK column shifter is what I used, P.S. I did not have to adjust the string. I unbolted the " U " shaped shifter piece from the T-350, Bolted it on to the 700R4 and re-Attached the stock column shift linkage, Piece-a-cake!
The P-N-D 1-2, Just pull it down one more for first, The detents are in the tranny NOT in the shifter. Also, I did bump the floor up with a ball peen hammer about 3/16'--1/4" the shift arm was rubbing on the tunnel, When you pull it down to first,,, That was a waste of time , I have never pulled it into first, With a 3:06 first gear, Its like low range in my Silverado.
Just so you know...... I know nothing about A 200R, I am a 4 speed guy.
But I do know a 700R4 is almost like a 350-T with a O.D. unit on the back.
The only part the cost a bit was the Dual patterned flex plate ( NHRA Approved) from summit. I retapped the the tranny so I could use 1/4" X 20 bolts for the bottom cover, AND I drilled some 1" holes in the cover for more air?????
In front behind the bumper on my 70 I have a FORD diesel Ambulance PLATE tranny cooler on All Hard lines, I also run the Rad, cooler.
Due to the FACT I know SQUAT about automatic trannys, The shop that sold me the tranny said KEEP IT KOOL. I am almost over kooling it ,,BUT its a summertime ride.
I built it to drive and I drive the hell out of it. Sitting in my garage next to my FRAUD" SS 454 " STATION WGN. Is my one owner triple black LS-5 / M-22 El Camino, ( tlr. queen) I call it Garage Furniture. The wagon is fun the Camino is NOT !
Life is a one way street, Enjoy it !
Bob
P.S. the only wiring inside my 70 is the wire from the fuse box that goes out through the firewall, I ran the wire through a piece of small vacuum hose to protect it. This wire goes to the 700R4. I have NO switches, NO vacuum hoses, NO Springs, or leavers. ONE wire from the fuse box to the 700R4.
WHY ???? I did not want to give my wife a " PRE FLIGHT " list to drive the dam car. Get in, Stick it in gear an GO !
My ideas may not be correct, Along with a BUT ! 36.000 miles--10 years. And my 1970 FRAUD car has NEVER broken down, And it has never been on a roll back or tow truck. I guess I am a lucky Guy!


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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 18, 6:22 AM
von
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

I didn't buy a kit for lockup on my 200 4R, just a 4th gear pressure switch for in the pan, a cruise control brake light switch, and a grommet for the 12V wire to enter the trans case. Probably about $40 in parts. My wiring is 12V (hot with ignition on) through the extra terminals on the CC brake light switch to the 4th gear pressure switch in the trans. When the trans goes into 4th gear (OD), one second later the converter locks. When the trans downshifts from 4th to 3rd (usually around 40 mph) or when stepping on the brake pedal the converter unlocks. Like Bob, I believe in KISS.

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 18, 8:47 AM
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

Quote:
Originally Posted by von View Post
I didn't buy a kit for lockup on my 200 4R, just a 4th gear pressure switch for in the pan, a cruise control brake light switch, and a grommet for the 12V wire to enter the trans case. Probably about $40 in parts. My wiring is 12V (hot with ignition on) through the extra terminals on the CC brake light switch to the 4th gear pressure switch in the trans. When the trans goes into 4th gear (OD), one second later the converter locks. When the trans downshifts from 4th to 3rd (usually around 40 mph) or when stepping on the brake pedal the converter unlocks. Like Bob, I believe in KISS.
Mines similar. 12v to a toggle, through the cruise control brake switch, through a vacuum switch, through a 12v delay timer, (that currently isnt working) then to the 4th gear pressure switch. then to the trans. I dislike the setup without the vac switch, this prevents the converter from locking right away after it hits 4th gear. Also with the vac switch once you take your foot off the gas, the converter unlocks. When the delay timer is working properly, once you have your foot back on the gas, and the vac stabilizes, it will engage the converter 8 seconds later. The delay timer prevents "shuttling" of the converter, lock, unlock lock, unlock..... you almost dont need the brake switch, but i like having all the bases covered. I noticed alot of the kits dont include the vac switch.



Vac switch - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-...YAAOxygo9Q56gk

Painless wiring brake switch - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Painless-Wi...gAAOSwxixZ-MbX

Unless you hunt around at junkyards, you will not find the vacuum delay valve mentioned above.

i used this - on my camaro its working fine, but i think the one on the monte is kinda broke. Delay timer. https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC5V-12V-24...Fi-1EGg8w_NI1A

trans plug - https://www.ebay.com/itm/700R4-2004R...cAAOSwv0tVN8HJ

4th gear pressure switch should be in the trans. Some years have a 4th gear pressure port on the opposite side as the electrical plug that can be used rather than taking the pan down and finding out if it has the right sensor. you want this sensor to be normally open, so it closes when it hits 4th.

Is my setup more complicated than others? yes. but again, i dont like the converter locking as soon as it hits 4th gear.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 18, 9:10 AM
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

A metal inspection cover from a 200 ( 3 speed ) automatic trans fits the 200 R 4 trans just fine. They may be easier to find.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 18, 9:19 AM
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

Convert it to a non-lockup setup and avoid all the lockup hassles.

1972 Chevelle, 454, 200-4r non-lockup, 12 bolt 3.73
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 18, 10:41 AM
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucifershammer View Post
Convert it to a non-lockup setup and avoid all the lockup hassles.
I wonder what lockup really buys you in real world classic car driving. I could say cooler run temperatures and better fuel economy but if I think of how my chevelle is really used there is limited high speed highway use, it's mostly around town and trips to car shows so I think Steve might be right. I'd like to hear what others think. I already went the route of having it though. I guess if it is any sort of a hassle I could just stop powering it.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 18, 11:11 AM
von
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Re: 200-4r swap prep

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucifershammer View Post
Convert it to a non-lockup setup and avoid all the lockup hassles.
I really wanted to do that when I built mine but couldn't find anywhere that sells the parts to convert or instructions on how to. I know you can't just plop a non-locking converter in and have the trans function correctly.

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