4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler - Chevelle Tech
Heating & Cooling Heating, cooling and air conditioning Sponsored by:Cold-Case Aluminum Radiators

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 9th, 14, 5:36 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: BROOKLYN, NY
Posts: 341
4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler

Hey crowd.

Looking to install all three of the above (4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler) in my 68. Has anyone done that? Any do's or don't's?

Any photos?

Much appreciated.

1987 Regal Turbo T, bench seat, column shifter, manual windows, original 213k miles.
1968 Chevelle 300 Deluxe, 2-door sport coupe, V8 - one of 6803 produced, purchased all original with 307 and PG. Transformation completed: 454, 700R4, 12 bolt with 3:73s.
2018 Toyota Tundra, 5.7L - DD
2018 Infiniti QX60 - wife's ride, Florida cruiser
LIVE4RDO is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 14, 7:44 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: BROOKLYN, NY
Posts: 341
Re: 4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler

no one?

1987 Regal Turbo T, bench seat, column shifter, manual windows, original 213k miles.
1968 Chevelle 300 Deluxe, 2-door sport coupe, V8 - one of 6803 produced, purchased all original with 307 and PG. Transformation completed: 454, 700R4, 12 bolt with 3:73s.
2018 Toyota Tundra, 5.7L - DD
2018 Infiniti QX60 - wife's ride, Florida cruiser
LIVE4RDO is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 14, 10:53 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
jackie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 4,775
Re: 4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler

Aren't "4-row" radiators kinda out of vogue with the advent of the newer large tube aluminum 2-row units?

That being said, I do have a custom built 4-row copper radiator, and did have a vintage air condenser and a small trans cooler all crammed in there. ('67 Malibu).

I have since taken out the condenser, but still have the trans cooler. My plans are to do away with the copper 4-row and go to a be cool unit that is a 1 inch tube 2 row aluminum unit.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Be+Cool+Radiat...62285/10002/-1

This unit with duel fans will handle 1000 HP. The drawback is you have to move battery to the trunk.

'67 Chevelle Malibu, Catalina Blue, 540 inch Rat, Air Flow Reasearch 290 CNC Heads heads, Custom Hyd Roller, .675 lift, 234, 244 at .050, Lemons Headers, Holley Multiport Fuel Injection, TCI 6X 6Speed Automatic, 12 bolt Posi Eaton TruTrac, 3:31 Richmond Gears, front and rear power disc brakes, Global West Suspension, etc.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jackie schmidt is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 12th, 14, 12:59 AM
Team Member
Steamy
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Here&there, AR
Posts: 6,824
Wink Re: 4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler

You'll have to fab a piece of metal on the left lower mounting pad on the radiator support to fit the larger tank, and you'll need the LS6 style of upper plate or weld a tab on your current top plate to fit.
Les Saville is using an Alumitech twin wide tube in his '68 and it works great in the Arkansas summers and fit with no mods. It's a TH400, A/C car with trans cooler in the radiator. I believe Dewitt's is making the same radiator.
BillL

If you keep on livin', you're gonna get old.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.
Good livin' will speed it up, but it's worth it.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


My Showroom

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ark68SS is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 14, 5:12 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Dan
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Forest City, IA
Posts: 1,003
Garage
Re: 4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler

I bought a Dewitt Radiator with the twin Spal fans to go in my 65 with a higher HP 383, a/c and a 2004r tranny and a couple of guys from Dewitt and my tranny guy all swear I won't need an external cooler. It is just going together soon and I plan on driveing this car to Cleveland in July so ask me in early August how this is all working out.

65 ss convert
71 malibu convert
95 GMC short bus
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
will02 is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 29th, 14, 9:08 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: BROOKLYN, NY
Posts: 341
Re: 4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler

By the way, here is how I ended up getting it done:








1987 Regal Turbo T, bench seat, column shifter, manual windows, original 213k miles.
1968 Chevelle 300 Deluxe, 2-door sport coupe, V8 - one of 6803 produced, purchased all original with 307 and PG. Transformation completed: 454, 700R4, 12 bolt with 3:73s.
2018 Toyota Tundra, 5.7L - DD
2018 Infiniti QX60 - wife's ride, Florida cruiser
LIVE4RDO is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 30th, 14, 12:30 PM
Team Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 11,306
Re: 4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIVE4RDO View Post
Hey crowd.

Looking to install all three of the above (4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler) in my 68. Has anyone done that? Any do's or don't's?

Any photos?

Much appreciated.
===============

You should be just fine " IF you read " & " do everything i suggested in the COOLING101 " thread i wrote at the top of this heating & cooling forum.

Note: i see your running the improper long pump in the pics of your 68 motor so you have to pay close attention to fan blade position and spacing in fan shorud.

Noticed your rinning non stock pulleys so you must ensure the crank and w-pump pulleys are same diameter as stock so they drive water pump and cooling at proper speed for proper cooling,if not cooling efficiency with likely be reduced which you dont want esp with AC.

Also,i have installed 4 row hd cooling rads in 68-72 vintage chevelles that didnt come with a 4 row hd cooling rad so unless your going for concourse shows you can in fact use the the stock 3 row rad toplate & repaint it,you just have to tweak one end of toplate to accomidate the larger 4 row tank thats not that noticeable unless your in know.

Since you running an AC cond in front of the rad i rec NOT MOUNTING YOUR EXTERNAL TRANS COOLER IN FRONT OF AC COND OR RAD CORE!

Your already blocking enough cooler air from passing thur rad core with ac cond in front of rad so they mfg all sorts of trans cooler in many shapes and sizes for any type setup including small elec therm controlled fans if you cant find a good place to mounts it with decent air flow away from radiator.

And it looks as though you have the trans coler mounted behind the ac cond whoich isnt good at all,thats because it block cooler air from entering trans cooler for proper cooling and when running ac the ac cond gets hot sneding pre heated hot air thru the trans cooler not helping it cool the trans fluid at all.

And also realize your now sending that dbl preheated air thats comming out of the trans cooler thru the radiator core thats doing absolutely nothing good for cooling the radiator core/motor,thats for sure.

Dont gete me wrong,I see you did very nice clean fab work on your car/motor in general whic is great, i am just pointing out mounting the trans cooler between the ac cond and rad isnt best case at all for the cooling system/cooling the motor let alone for efficiently cooling trans & tran fluid either.

I know thats where the mfgs rec you mount the trans cooler but in reality its not the best place when it comes to cooling efficiency of the motor which isnt thier concern being the trans cooler mfg.

Thats i why rec mounting trans cooler elsewhere away from the cond and or radiator with a small thermostatically cont elec fan if you cant mount away from ac cond and rad core where it will still get decent airflow for proper cooling of trans fluid.

Bottom line is,if you do everything (and i mean everything!) just like i rec in the cooling101 thread i worte using same mfg's parts etc along with taking all the above into consideration your motor/car should do just fine.

Skip/dont do everything just as i suggest above and in my cooling101 thread too & you will very likely have cooling issues esp with AC on a hot summer day.

Good luck.

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)

Last edited by SWHEATON; Sep 30th, 14 at 1:07 PM.
SWHEATON is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 30th, 14, 12:36 PM
Team Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 11,306
Re: 4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie schmidt View Post
Aren't "4-row" radiators kinda out of vogue with the advent of the newer large tube aluminum 2-row units?

That being said, I do have a custom built 4-row copper radiator, and did have a vintage air condenser and a small trans cooler all crammed in there. ('67 Malibu).

I have since taken out the condenser, but still have the trans cooler. My plans are to do away with the copper 4-row and go to a be cool unit that is a 1 inch tube 2 row aluminum unit.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Be+Cool+Radiat...62285/10002/-1

This unit with duel fans will handle 1000 HP. The drawback is you have to move battery to the trunk.
===================================

Jackie,just an FYI for you.

4 row old school rads arent out of style for guys that dont want non stock AL rad look and dont want to pay $100-150+ more for good quality al rad .

The 4 row hd cooling copper brass rads flat out work very well in a chevelle along with the upgraded cooling setup i rec in my cooling101 thread.

And as for the elec fans /al rad combos you reffer to go,many (and i mean many!) with some advertised to handle 1k hp like you mentioned had motors from guys cars here in t/c running in 210-230 deg range no matter what they did and could not handle cooling duty in hotter summer temp at all time after time after time as seend posted here in t/c every summer that i personally helped get squared away with my rec upgraded cooling system setup & tuning /timing rec.

The elec fan setups were totally blown away by 30+ deg on avg (few by 35-40 deg!) when using my upgraded cooling setup while retaining thier exisitng rad weather it be an old school 4 row hd cooling rad or a Dewitts/Alumitech type al rad ,those rads all performed well when used with everything i rec in my cooling101 thread and i have 1 hand testimonials to back up that statement too.

In most cases when talking cooling a chevelle with an old school non emmisison sbc or bbc street perf motor (not talking a retso mod running an EFI LS emmission motor designed to run 210-220 deg all day long!) the elec fans have shown they often cant compete with a V8 powering a lrg 7 blade clutch fan with healthy fan blade pitch with stock shroud sealed to rad core with a HD thermal fan clutch .

Thats why my rec upgraded cooling system setup consistantly blows away many elec fan setups by running 30+ deg cooler on avg with the same radiator which was proven here here in t/c many times over the past yrs i have been helping guys fix ongoing cooling issues with thier elec fan setups they thought were good costing $300-400+ when in reality they werent.

But i do like & rec Dewitts AL rad/HD dual elec fan combo because it flat out works well in many apps whic we have all seen here in t/c 1st hand from guys using that setup which other aftermarket elec fan/al rad combos dont do that was shown in all the cooling issues i helped guys fix tha were running those lower performing elec fan setups.

And if your going to post the temp your motor at with elec fans POST IN HEAD TEMP that counts and not intake temp thet typically reads 10-15 deg cooler in warmer summer temp.

In head temp gives much better indication of what temps doing in the much more impritant areas of the motor like combution chamber in the head and main coolant passage in block then way up on top of the motor far way from whats goinjg on temp wise in much more important areas of the motor.

Thats why thru testing and engine tuning i found a way to consistantly get sbc/bbc stteet perf motors or many diff perf lvls to consistantly run in head temps of approx 180 deg + - few deg in warmer summer temp where many elec fans setups struggle in same app & cond running at 210-220+ deg (talking i head temp) with same radiator that runs 30+ deg cooler on avg (few 35-40+ deg cooler) with my rec upgraded cooling setup & tuning/timing rec.

Thats JMHO from 4+ decades of 1st hand exp fixing cooling issues on street perf muscle & reg pass cars for people locally at home where i live and for many guys here in t/c too that i have on file to backup everything i stated when it comes running aftermarket elec cooling fans resutling cooling issues on GM muscle & reg pass cars too.

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)

Last edited by SWHEATON; Sep 30th, 14 at 12:59 PM.
SWHEATON is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Sep 30th, 14, 8:33 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: BROOKLYN, NY
Posts: 341
Re: 4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWHEATON View Post
===============

You should be just fine " IF you read " & " do everything i suggested in the COOLING101 " thread i wrote at the top of this heating & cooling forum.

Note: i see your running the improper long pump in the pics of your 68 motor so you have to pay close attention to fan blade position and spacing in fan shorud.

Noticed your rinning non stock pulleys so you must ensure the crank and w-pump pulleys are same diameter as stock so they drive water pump and cooling at proper speed for proper cooling,if not cooling efficiency with likely be reduced which you dont want esp with AC.

Also,i have installed 4 row hd cooling rads in 68-72 vintage chevelles that didnt come with a 4 row hd cooling rad so unless your going for concourse shows you can in fact use the the stock 3 row rad toplate & repaint it,you just have to tweak one end of toplate to accomidate the larger 4 row tank thats not that noticeable unless your in know.

Since you running an AC cond in front of the rad i rec NOT MOUNTING YOUR EXTERNAL TRANS COOLER IN FRONT OF AC COND OR RAD CORE!

Your already blocking enough cooler air from passing thur rad core with ac cond in front of rad so they mfg all sorts of trans cooler in many shapes and sizes for any type setup including small elec therm controlled fans if you cant find a good place to mounts it with decent air flow away from radiator.

And it looks as though you have the trans coler mounted behind the ac cond whoich isnt good at all,thats because it block cooler air from entering trans cooler for proper cooling and when running ac the ac cond gets hot sneding pre heated hot air thru the trans cooler not helping it cool the trans fluid at all.

And also realize your now sending that dbl preheated air thats comming out of the trans cooler thru the radiator core thats doing absolutely nothing good for cooling the radiator core/motor,thats for sure.

Dont gete me wrong,I see you did very nice clean fab work on your car/motor in general whic is great, i am just pointing out mounting the trans cooler between the ac cond and rad isnt best case at all for the cooling system/cooling the motor let alone for efficiently cooling trans & tran fluid either.

I know thats where the mfgs rec you mount the trans cooler but in reality its not the best place when it comes to cooling efficiency of the motor which isnt thier concern being the trans cooler mfg.

Thats i why rec mounting trans cooler elsewhere away from the cond and or radiator with a small thermostatically cont elec fan if you cant mount away from ac cond and rad core where it will still get decent airflow for proper cooling of trans fluid.

Bottom line is,if you do everything (and i mean everything!) just like i rec in the cooling101 thread i worte using same mfg's parts etc along with taking all the above into consideration your motor/car should do just fine.

Skip/dont do everything just as i suggest above and in my cooling101 thread too & you will very likely have cooling issues esp with AC on a hot summer day.

Good luck.

Scott

Scott, Thank You for taking your time and typing your review.

I had the same concern about tranny cooler placement, but my mechanic assured me that it should be fine. Time will tell. Right now I'm running about 170-180 IN HEAD temp. But it's nice and cool outside.

I did follow most of your recommendations: exact fan, clutch, radiator, thermostat.

1987 Regal Turbo T, bench seat, column shifter, manual windows, original 213k miles.
1968 Chevelle 300 Deluxe, 2-door sport coupe, V8 - one of 6803 produced, purchased all original with 307 and PG. Transformation completed: 454, 700R4, 12 bolt with 3:73s.
2018 Toyota Tundra, 5.7L - DD
2018 Infiniti QX60 - wife's ride, Florida cruiser
LIVE4RDO is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 2nd, 14, 1:43 AM
Team Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 11,306
Re: 4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIVE4RDO View Post
Scott, Thank You for taking your time and typing your review.

I had the same concern about tranny cooler placement, but my mechanic assured me that it should be fine. Time will tell. Right now I'm running about 170-180 IN HEAD temp. But it's nice and cool outside.

I did follow most of your recommendations: exact fan, clutch, radiator, thermostat.
==========

Well when it comes to the external trans cooler,think about what i said and the reasons i said it you in the 1st palce.

Its not rocket but you have to pay attaention to some details and the fact is where your local wrench told was ok to mount the trans cooler isnt best case by a long shot for all the reason i already stated in my earlier post to you.

And as far as the time will tell if trans cooler works ok for trans or cooling system works ok,since you said your going with my rec upgraded cooling setup thats usually powerfull enough a setup to over come an issue with trans cooler and ac cond sedning preheated air thru the rad core .

But engine temp will likely be a bit higher the i stated my setup generally runs at because of the the AC cond in front of rad core esp with the trans cooler blocking and or now dbl preheating air before it passes thru rad core in which case the trans and or trans Fluid should run at a higher temp then if you located elsewhere like i rec you do where there still decent non obstructed cool airflow and or mount a small thermstatically controlled elec cooling fan to trans cooler if no good place is avail to mount for good airflow/proper cooling.

We all know too much heat isnt good for an auto trans which is why your installing an exteranl trans cooler .

So with that said why would anyone think its a good place to mount trans cooler inbetween the ac cond and rad core where it gets greatly reduced airflow with ac cond blocking clean unabstructed airflow to the cooler resulting in poor cooling of rtrans fluid is the right thing to do?

Then on top of that when AC is on/being used thinking its a good idea to send what little/greatly reduced airflow the trans cooler see's comming thru the now heated up AC cond as preheated air (with AC is on ) thru the trans cooler which is a feable attempt at best to cool the trans fluid /transmission in general .

Bottom line is will your motor and or trans overheat bad enough to quickly cause issues with the trans or motor with the trans cooler mounted between ac cond and rad core?

No,not likely but over time trans fluid and or trans in general running hotter can reduce its srvc life ,just how much depends on how hot things get and how much load/abuse is put on the trans.

As for the motor running a bit hotter in hotter summer temp if that turns out to be the case,thats not likely a big issue other thenthe motort wont perf as well as it could if it was running cooler for obvious reasons.

When you drive the car in 85-90+ deg temp/traffic with Ac on will tell the story as far as enoine temp goes,but not trany inless you have a temp guage for the trans fluid/trans and ask trans shop what acceptable/good temp is for trans fluid/trans to run for optimal perf/best srv'c life talking old school trans.

Todays auto trans that are designed to run at hotter temp are the diffetrent story.

Good luck.

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)
SWHEATON is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 2nd, 14, 9:35 AM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: LINY
Posts: 393
Re: 4 row radiator / Vintage Air condenser / Tranny cooler

Well now thats good information bringing the ole girl outta storage after 23 yrs and appreciate the cooling tech thanks
ac72rat is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This Thread is more than 1945 days old. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
If you still feel it is necessary to make a new reply, you can still do so though.

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome