467 cooling issues - HELP - Chevelle Tech
Heating & Cooling Heating, cooling and air conditioning

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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 5th, 20, 9:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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467 cooling issues - HELP

Really hoping to get some help... I’ve got a 467 in a 68 chevelle. I’m currently getting temps at around 195-205 from idle to 30-40 mph. With AC on (old air products system) I’m getting up to 205-220 before I cut the AC. If I get up to 90 mph system runs at 190. I was told by the guy that built the motor I should be at 190 max. I’m currently using a high flow stage 2 Stewart water pump, 160 degree performance Stewart thermostat. Derale dual electric fans (4,000 cfm) hooked up to a derale controller and a 3 core champion aluminum radiator. I have no clue what else to do. I did have a regular water pump and 180 thermostat and was running a little warmer.
A little more info:
Holley sniper full set up (handles timing)
tremec tko 5 speed.
Cast iron block and stock heads
Radiator also has overflow tank
It was 92 degrees or so when I was driving but that doesn’t seem to matter much from 85+ degrees outside as I have been messing with this for weeks now and in some “nicer” weather.
Any help much appreciated.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 5th, 20, 4:59 PM
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Jeff
 
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Re: 467 cooling issues - HELP

I would switch to a Stant Super Stat first.. I had a lot of issues with the Stewart/Mr. Gasket pill stat..

Stant
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 5th, 20, 7:37 PM
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Tom
 
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Re: 467 cooling issues - HELP

If the temperatures creep up with normal driving Id be inclined to say that either you dont have enough radiator or your water pump is moving too much coolant. Certainly test the thermostat, but remember that the thermostat only regulates the MINIMUM operating temperature. Its up to your water pump and radiator to keep it from rising much above that.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 5th, 20, 8:14 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: 467 cooling issues - HELP

i had a 496 and now i have a 572, i had to change radiators to a griffin 3 core and duel fans.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 5th, 20, 8:44 PM
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Greg.
 
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Re: 467 cooling issues - HELP

E Fans work best on Rads that only have 2 Rows of Tubes ( 1.25" Wide is best)
as there is less Resistance of Air Flow thru them

Any Coolant in the Overflow after a hot drive ?

Since you have a 68, which means you can have a bigger Rad than us 67 and prior
how big is it ??

Is there a Shroud on the Rad ???
and does it cover the whole Rad Core ????

Can you post Pics of your Rad's Grill Side and Engine Side ?

As long as the Water Pump is moving Coolant thru the Engine and the Rad the speed of it is irreverent
see my STICKY " 9 Rules for Improving Engine Cooling System Capability in Hi-Perf Auto " above and Rule # 1

and usually a Stock Type Flow Water Pump is all you need
unless you are racing in a NASCAR event where you are going 100+ mph all the time

So if you are running at 190* at 90 mph / Hwy speed then there is enough Air Flow going thru the Rad Core

But if driving in the City Traffic and you see Higher Temps then there is likely
something in front of the Rad Core Reducing the Air Flow
that the E Fans are able to Pull air thru / 3 Rows of Core VS 2 Rows and likely the A/C Condenser !!
-SS454- likes this.

67 Chevelle Malibu SS Cdn
Born 283 / PG / A51
468/TH400 2,500 stall/ S60 3.70 Gs
Prev Best on M/T ET S/S #3454 street Tires/Dress 2018/05/20
60' = 1.664
1/8 = 7.532 et / 91 mph
1/4 = 11.814 et / 115 mph
NEW Best with 3,500+ Stall TC 2019/09/08
60' = 1.547
1/8 = 7.311 et / 91.76 mph
1/4 = 11.595 et / 114.28 mph


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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 20, 9:56 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all of the replies. The overflow is filled to cool point. After a drive it is usually just below the hot line. Here are some pics of the engine bay, etc as requested... please let me know if any additional thoughts.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 20, 1:16 PM
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Jim
 
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Re: 467 cooling issues - HELP

What is your timing curve with the Sniper?
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 20, 3:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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Timing curve on the Sniper... whatever is standard? I read some about adjusting it but never went far enough to do anything. It’s just set at default. Not sure I even know how or what to look at to get the info. I can try and mess with the handheld screen later to see if I can get that info.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 20, 4:28 PM
Matthew
 
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Re: 467 cooling issues - HELP

Does your Derale controller have temperature setting adjustments? I have a 396 with 4.11 gears in South Florida, so it gets hot. I switched to the Derale dual fans, and could not get the temp below 200 degrees, even on cooler nights. I have a 160 stat drilled, blocked bypass, and a nothing fancy radiator I put in there about 15 years ago. I have a Ron Francis controller for mine, but I was able to adjust the On-Temperature setting by simply pressing a button. I lowered it by about 30 degrees and now the car sits from 175-185 all day.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 20, 5:19 PM
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Chris
 
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Re: 467 cooling issues - HELP

It appears your temp sensor is in the head (last picture), this will register temps about 15 degrees hotter than in the intake manifold. I run around 180F in the intake, which would be about 195 in the head.

You need to find out your timing curve. Easy to find on the hand held.

As Kirk's67SS stated, you don't have good enough airflow in your system. You should see your temps drop as soon by 35-40 mph, let alone 90. Looking at your fan setup, I'd say your fan/shroud is not ideal. While I do see the rubber flap, it's not enough. More flaps won't help at idle, but it will make a difference once moving past 30 mph.

Obviously the AC condenser is blocking half the radiator, which isn't helping.

What is your mix of antifreeze to water? Water runs cooler than anti-freeze. You could try running the car with the rad cap off for a bit to try and burp any air out of the system.

Try cleaning your radiator to make sure no bugs or grime is blocking the airflow.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 20, 7:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DraggedDown View Post
Does your Derale controller have temperature setting adjustments? I have a 396 with 4.11 gears in South Florida, so it gets hot. I switched to the Derale dual fans, and could not get the temp below 200 degrees, even on cooler nights. I have a 160 stat drilled, blocked bypass, and a nothing fancy radiator I put in there about 15 years ago. I have a Ron Francis controller for mine, but I was able to adjust the On-Temperature setting by simply pressing a button. I lowered it by about 30 degrees and now the car sits from 175-185 all day.
Thanks for the info! My Derale controller has a little potentiometer that you turn to adjust the turn on temp. I’ve tried turning it down per the instructions repeatedly but doesn’t help anything. I searched for different controllers but could find anything that seemed like I could set it. Which Ron Francis controller did you purchase? The AR99? I’m definitely going to try this.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 20, 7:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS454- View Post
It appears your temp sensor is in the head (last picture), this will register temps about 15 degrees hotter than in the intake manifold. I run around 180F in the intake, which would be about 195 in the head.

You need to find out your timing curve. Easy to find on the hand held.

As Kirk's67SS stated, you don't have good enough airflow in your system. You should see your temps drop as soon by 35-40 mph, let alone 90. Looking at your fan setup, I'd say your fan/shroud is not ideal. While I do see the rubber flap, it's not enough. More flaps won't help at idle, but it will make a difference once moving past 30 mph.

Obviously the AC condenser is blocking half the radiator, which isn't helping.

What is your mix of antifreeze to water? Water runs cooler than anti-freeze. You could try running the car with the rad cap off for a bit to try and burp any air out of the system.

Try cleaning your radiator to make sure no bugs or grime is blocking the airflow.
Thanks for the info! I have 50/50 off the shelf pre mixed stuff. I only have about 300 miles on the car since getting it all together and get the bugs worked out. This is pretty much the last thing I have to tackle.

In order the ensure I had all the air out of the system I purchased a Lisle Funnel that attaches to the radiator cap inlet and and sucks fluid in and bubbles out the air.

I post the timing curve info tomorrow afternoon.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 20, 9:26 PM
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Greg.
 
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Re: 467 cooling issues - HELP

Agree with Chris "SS454"

I see a Metal Shroud that does not cover all of the Rad Core
and the fact it is Metal means it holds the Heat in/at the Rad Core more than a Plastic/Nylon Fibre one would

I also see there is a 4 Bolt Top Plate on the Top of the Rad
so that usually means you have a Rad Core with 3 or 4 Rows of Tubes
and add onto that a A/C Condenser in Front of the Rad which means
that the Efans are trying to Pull AiR thru 5 or 6 Rows of Cooling Tubes
and that is not efficient enough to keep your Engine at a Temp of 180* from a Intake Sensor

My 468ci Engine with around 500+ HP is kept running at 180* or less
on Hot days & at the Track doing Back to Back runs
with a little DF Rad that has a 16" Hi X 23.5" Wide Core
and SPAL Dual Efans/Shroud that covers/Sealed to all of the Rad's Core
it does have a Trans Cooler down low in Front of the Rad's Core and a 160* Thermostat
and a Overflow Can if she wants to puke some Coolant out
Rad is never Filled to the Top, about 1" to 1.5" down from the Rad Cap Hole










67 Chevelle Malibu SS Cdn
Born 283 / PG / A51
468/TH400 2,500 stall/ S60 3.70 Gs
Prev Best on M/T ET S/S #3454 street Tires/Dress 2018/05/20
60' = 1.664
1/8 = 7.532 et / 91 mph
1/4 = 11.814 et / 115 mph
NEW Best with 3,500+ Stall TC 2019/09/08
60' = 1.547
1/8 = 7.311 et / 91.76 mph
1/4 = 11.595 et / 114.28 mph


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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 20, 11:24 PM
Matthew
 
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Re: 467 cooling issues - HELP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DFuller43 View Post
Thanks for the info! My Derale controller has a little potentiometer that you turn to adjust the turn on temp. I’ve tried turning it down per the instructions repeatedly but doesn’t help anything. I searched for different controllers but could find anything that seemed like I could set it. Which Ron Francis controller did you purchase? The AR99? I’m definitely going to try this.
I have the AR-88 controller. I can't remember why I went with that specific model, but it has served me well. I purchased mine directly from the Ron Francis website. I only mention that as I just did a Google search for the 88 and some websites have a very different looking model pictured.

To fix my overheating, I did a factory reset on the On-Temperature setting, and then lowered it about 30 degrees. The temperature sensor goes under the intake manifold bolt, and it must be placed upfront on the water jacket. When I did an intake swap I moved the sensor to the rear for aesthetic reasons (not thinking), and the car reached well over 200 degrees on the test drive with the fans never turning on.

Fixing the cooling issue also cured a year long vapor lock issue that was not only frustrating, but really dangerous at times. I had replaced everything from the sending unit; the fuel line from the tank to the carb; fuel pump; pressure regulator; fuel line from the firewall up to the carb wrapped in heat shield - nothing worked to fix the problem. Once I dropped the temperature setting on the fan, all of my vapor lock issues disappeared.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Jun 7th, 20, 7:22 AM
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Steve
 
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Re: 467 cooling issues - HELP

Quick and easy test to see if a new/different fan controller will help. Hot wire the fans so they are always on.

See what happens with your cooling. If it doesn't help keep it cooler, fan controller changes aren't going to help you at all and you'll have to look elsewhere for the issue.
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