Oveheating or NOT??? - Page 3 - Chevelle Tech
Heating & Cooling Heating, cooling and air conditioning

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post #31 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 18, 7:27 AM
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Jeff
 
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Re: Oveheating or NOT???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer4x4 View Post
Just curious, where is the factory sender in a 1990s LT1 with reverse flow. They flow to the heads then down the block, correct? I assume the sender is in the head, but never really looked when I had my 1994 LT1 Caprice.
It had 2 senders, one in the head for the gauges, one @ the pump for the ECM.

OP, as stated, you don't have an overheating problem, you have a sending unit location problem. If it makes you more comfortable, move the sender to the intake where the temps will be cooler. Right now you're at the combustion / exhaust source, it's going to read higher.
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post #32 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 18, 7:32 AM
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Re: Oveheating or NOT???

You guys kill me when you remove a simple, strong, efficient clutch fan for one of those anemic, extremely inefficient electric fan set ups..

You do realize these cars were designed to have continuous under hood air flow.....

Remove all that over engineered nonsense and put the clutch fan back on..
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post #33 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 18, 10:01 PM
 
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Re: Oveheating or NOT???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk's67SS View Post
The Cold Case Shroud is Metal and does not have any Flaps in it for the Hwy
https://www.coldcaseradiators.com/ch...m-radiator-mt/

IMHO
1. the Metal Heats up and therefore retains more heat within the Unit
2. since there are NO Flaps in it for them to open up on the Hwy Speeds the Flow of Air is Restricted
to only able to go thru the Fans area thus less Air Flow to Cool the Rad Fins
this Pic of the SPAL Dual 11" Efans/Shroud in my car shows
the 6 on Top and 6 at Bottom that open on the Hwy & are Closed in Town

Greg has some good points here. Let me just add something to this.
2. This can be true depending on the application. Cold Case now makes a kit so you can add the little squares and flaps. It's like a $10 kit. However, our logic for not including them is pretty sound. Most owners are not having problems at speed. They have the problems when sitting. A sealed shroud is best for this situation. The flaps are not as good as a sealed shroud like ours. Also, we think the rubber flaps look kind of crappy and are prone to disappearing.


I'll use my personal 67 GTO as a perfect example. I have a very hot running 462 strocker motor. Always had overheating problems when stuck in traffic. Id get moving and the temps would come right down to 190. Tried everything. I added a very nice dual 1" aluminum Rodney Red unit and still ran up to 220 quite quickly and it would keep going. Finally found a Mark V dual 1 1/4" unit and added dual 12" SPAL fans and a very nice custom made aluminum sealed shroud and the problem went away. I started running at 190 no matter what speed and no matter how long I sat in traffic. It cost me around $1500 and 3 years of testing to determine I needed a bigger volume AND more air flow at the slow speeds.

Of course this was before we were in the Radiator business. This Spring we swapped out that $1500 kit for our Cold Case kit. Results after beating on the car for 5 hours in all conditions.....never went over 190.

So while the new Cold Case kit didn't do better than the $1500 top of the line kit, the Cold case kit retails for less than 1/2 the price.

Yesterday I was heading down to the GTO Nationals about 15 miles away. After 15 minutes I realized I had forgotten to turn the fans on because the temp had oddly gone to 195. Turned them on and temp immediately went to 190 and stayed there the rest of the trip. I probably could have made it the entire 30 minute trip with NO fans. If our shrouds were that inefficient, I think I would have noticed some problems.

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post #34 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 18, 12:42 AM
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Re: Oveheating or NOT???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccass View Post
Greg has some good points here. Let me just add something to this.
2. This can be true depending on the application. Cold Case now makes a kit so you can add the little squares and flaps. It's like a $10 kit. However, our logic for not including them is pretty sound. Most owners are not having problems at speed. They have the problems when sitting. A sealed shroud is best for this situation. The flaps are not as good as a sealed shroud like ours. Also, we think the rubber flaps look kind of crappy and are prone to disappearing.


I'll use my personal 67 GTO as a perfect example. I have a very hot running 462 strocker motor. Always had overheating problems when stuck in traffic. Id get moving and the temps would come right down to 190. Tried everything. I added a very nice dual 1" aluminum Rodney Red unit and still ran up to 220 quite quickly and it would keep going. Finally found a Mark V dual 1 1/4" unit and added dual 12" SPAL fans and a very nice custom made aluminum sealed shroud and the problem went away. I started running at 190 no matter what speed and no matter how long I sat in traffic. It cost me around $1500 and 3 years of testing to determine I needed a bigger volume AND more air flow at the slow speeds.

Of course this was before we were in the Radiator business. This Spring we swapped out that $1500 kit for our Cold Case kit. Results after beating on the car for 5 hours in all conditions.....never went over 190.

So while the new Cold Case kit didn't do better than the $1500 top of the line kit, the Cold case kit retails for less than 1/2 the price.

Yesterday I was heading down to the GTO Nationals about 15 miles away. After 15 minutes I realized I had forgotten to turn the fans on because the temp had oddly gone to 195. Turned them on and temp immediately went to 190 and stayed there the rest of the trip. I probably could have made it the entire 30 minute trip with NO fans. If our shrouds were that inefficient, I think I would have noticed some problems.


My take away from this, 1500 dollar cover up, think about it, if your radiator cools the car while moving this means the radiator was fine and can cool the engine at any speed or idle, a nice factory clutch fan and shroud would have provided enough air flow for idle, if you really tried everything you would have found you was not running enough timing for idle and fuel mixture was off, at idle with retarded timing and not having the proper fuel mixture creates a lot of unwanted heat. getting the fuel and timing right at idle would have taken care of the 1500 dollar cover up. Just want others to know if you have temps that creep up during idle, you need proper timing and fuel mixture not more money thrown to a radiator to cover up a lack of understanding whats going on.

how can the radiator be at fault if it cools the engine once it gets moving, the radiator is sized just fine, now it's air flow, fuel, timing. once you get moving air flow increases, timing increases and say with a holley carb you transfer to main jets about 2200 rpm.


makes no sense what so ever to say you needed more volume of water for engine that sits at idle, specially when it was said the car would cool down once moving, radiator was big enough to cool the engine in motion- meaning it is working harder, so an engine at idle doing less work can be cooled by same radiator. Maybe needed more airflow or should I say proper air flow at idle, a nice factory clutch fan and shroud or something of the equal would have worked just fine. A 462 stroker is nothing so special it requires "special" cooling set up. So hence a properly set up factory style fan and shroud would have been enough.

That leaves the timing and carb set up for idle, this was off creating the problem, may still be, instead of spending a few hours to get those things right, let's spend 1500 bucks for more volume and air flow, force the engine to be cooled when not properly tuned correctly.

For me this is the perfect example of someone looking in the wrong place to resolve a cooling problem, I hope others can learn from this, that it doesn't require big money to cool such basic engines.

Not poking the bear, just want folks to look a little deeper into what's going on.


Hope this helps.


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post #35 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 18, 5:39 PM
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Re: Oveheating or NOT???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 71350SS View Post
Using one of these thermostats

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...make/chevrolet

in my ElCamino,and yes it runs 180-190 all day long. No BSing. One thing about electric fans is that they usually aren't needed at highway speeds (on OE's at least) where the airflow through the rads is usually enough to cool the engine.If the highway airflow gets blocked by the elec fan shrouding it can in effect become a sort of an air dam when on the highway.To combat this most OE elec fan shrouds have multiple small reliefs somewhere on them to allow the air to pass through them when the fan is not running.
I don't know if this is your problem but it is something to consider if you're overheating is at speed.
In my experience I tried that same exact tstat and my car didnít like it. Not sure why, but it ran much hotter. I looked closely at my old tstat and it was a Stewart Components. I bought that one and the temps went back to normal 180-195 degree range. Again no other changes, I just thought as routine maintenance Iíd change it, and thatís what my local speed shop had in stock. For some reason it didnít work well for me.

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post #36 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 18, 7:24 PM
 
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Re: Oveheating or NOT???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeennis View Post
My take away from this, 1500 dollar cover up
Not poking the bear, just want folks to look a little deeper into what's going on.

Uhhh, you are poking the bear. Anyway, that's your privilege. I guess I don't blame you. We're pretty new here but those that know us wouldn't have made all the assumptions you just made. We're not rookies at this.

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post #37 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 18, 10:09 PM
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Re: Oveheating or NOT???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70CHEVELLE396 View Post
In my experience I tried that same exact tstat and my car didnít like it. Not sure why, but it ran much hotter. I looked closely at my old tstat and it was a Stewart Components. I bought that one and the temps went back to normal 180-195 degree range. Again no other changes, I just thought as routine maintenance Iíd change it, and thatís what my local speed shop had in stock. For some reason it didnít work well for me.
I bought that stat around 02 or 03 so maybe mine was manufactured in a different place than yours but who knows? If the Stewart stat is a better unit now, its good to get that info out there.
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post #38 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 30th, 18, 10:01 AM
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Re: Oveheating or NOT???

Just something else to consider when addressing temp issues. Went through 2 new thermostats with a randomly widely ranging temp issue; would run ~180 then climb to 210-220 under varying driving conditions.

After the second new stat (2 different brands & types), I was messing with a EFI idle stall issue and the wife noticed the radiator hose was sucking down when revving (at full temp). Pulled the second sat out and replaced it with a Robert Shaw high flow (added to 1/8" bypass holes) and the heating issue is finally gone.

Tried the previous two stats in hot water to see what was going on and they opened at different temps and occasionally stuck and didn't open even at boiling.

Lesson: Can't always trust new parts....
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post #39 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 30th, 18, 4:23 PM
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Re: Oveheating or NOT???

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Originally Posted by Groundhogjr View Post
I've had this problem for a while. Every time I talk with other car guys, they say "Oh my car runs all day at 180/185, no problem". Now not to be a smart ass, but come on not every body is telling the truth.
Most of those guys have probably put a lot of thought and time into dialing in their cooling systems... Like any good "system", you usually can't just throw something together or add just one great part... It is a "system", and should be designed as such... Case in point is the factory system. Yes, a factory shroud/clutch fan assembly and good-condition radiator were/are generally adequate for a properly tuned vehicle of similar power output. It still may see 210+ on hot days in traffic (which can be disconcerting, especially to a novice), but perfectly acceptable... Of course, many people have their engines putting out more than stock horsepower (a byproduct is often increased heat) , which may be too much for the factory system. Just as the factory used larger radiators and fans on big blocks and A/C cars, a "built" motor may also need upgraded components to sufficiently cool the engine...


Assuming you have a 16psi radiator cap, 210 is nothing to worry about... 225 -235 is time to worry... Water boils at 212, and each psi increases the boiling point about 3 degrees, so with a 16psi cap, the water is still liquid at about 260 degrees, and "liquid" coolant is what you want, steam does you no good...... Of course, there are hotter areas and pockets within the engine, which is why 225-235 degrees is MY rule of thumb...


My old system (I sold the car recently) had a 180 Tstat, but on the highway (60-75 mph) it would often drop to 170-175 (on 100+ degree days)Ö had the high-flow T-stat, large alum radiator, dual electric fans/shroud and a high flow water pump (Stewart/EMP Stage2)...


But I agree, the head tends to be hotter because its closer to the combustion chambers and the exhaust ports... the water at the T-stat is a mixture from the entire engine and not all of it flows directly by the exhaust, which is why its usually cooler there... And often the temp difference is wider when idling... At higher rpm, more flow, and the temps (on a gauge) will tend to be closer...

I also agree with trying to swap the sending units: gauge in the intake and the fan switch in the head...

IMO, I think the fans should be on most of the time the T-stat is open. IIRC, I set my fan to turn on at 185 (180 T-stat). I also had a second fan to turned on at 195+...

Once you go RAT, you never go back...
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post #40 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 30th, 18, 6:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Oveheating or NOT???

1966_L78, what are you using to control the 2 fans
Thanks
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post #41 of 41 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 18, 1:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Oveheating or NOT???

Just an update on my post. Over the weekend I switched the sensor's around, water temp in the intake and fan switch in the head. Took a test drive and my temp gauge didn't go above 180 and i couldn't tell what temp the fans come on, but they came on. Rode around for about 20 miles and the temp never got above 180.
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