Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 07, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Vince
 
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Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Yes I did the search...I just about got all the info I need. I just dont wanna drop 25.00 x 2 for relays and some wire from some sources.

Can I use ANY relay and socket? How about this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PREMIUM-30-40-AM...QQcmdZViewItem

And I would put a fuse from the buss to the relay right? What size wire and fuse do you recommend?

And lastly...after the upgrade is done, should I get better bulbs to take advantage?

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 07, 11:00 AM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

There are thousands of relays and sockets in the salvage yards.
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post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 07, 12:33 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

I have never heard of that brand of relay.
I used Bosch relays for everything in my 59
The headlight relay is a
GOOD thing as your current headlamps will be brighter
If you buy the halogen type sealed beams---brighter still.
It will not be necessary to tap into the fuse buss.
To power the lamps a wire would be routed from the main buss under the hood(if equipped) or directly from the battery.

Battery/buss>>>30amp fuse or breaker>>>>pos #30 on relay
then
pos #87 on relay to headlamps (LtGrn for HI--Tan for LOW)

the existing tan and Lt Green wires will be routed to pos # 85 on the relays---(you will need 2 relays----hi & low)

Pos #86 on the relay will be run to Ground

Having trouble with a link-----Check out the thread "headlight relay placement" by 'Daveo'

I posted links to a couple of pages of relays and terminals there.


FYI----in the 80s GM used bosch relays for virtually everything
pop the hood on a pont/buick and the row of relays at the back of the hood are all bosch type relays

Bryan's toyz

59 ElCamino 454/TKO 5spd--(daddy)
66 ElCamino 3oh7/TKO 5spd (mousey) Almost done On the street now!!!
65 Ranchero v8/4-spd, that my uncle bought new
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post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 07, 1:16 PM Thread Starter
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Vince
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Thanks Bryan.

How's that motor coming along?

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 07, 2:40 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Vince,

Here is a bit more reading for your enjoyment...

http://home.surewest.net/jahr/ElCami...lectrical.html

I DO recommend using a circuit breaker in the main power feed for the new headlight circuit rather than a fuse. Additionally you want to make sure it is the self-resetting type rather than the manual reset. Flashing headlights are better than no headlights if there is an issue.

I also recommend upgrading the ground wire to a larger size and using a star lock washer on the ground connection to the core support. This is a critical connection and any resistance will not only reduce headlight output but cause heating affects. The crimp-on terminals I removed from my El Camino had melted insulators from just this problem. Soldering these terminals would not be a bad idea as it will seal up the connection.

As to relays and wire sizes... a pair of 60W bulbs will pull about 10A so just about any relay will do along with 16g wire. You will have some extra safety margin with 14g wire if you desire.

Do be a bit careful on the high beam side though depending on what you plan on doing. You can create a real monster system with the quad light Chevelle/El Caminos. For example I have 55/60W H4s along with 55W H1s on the front of mine. That works out to 230W on high beam and approaching 20A of current. *THAT* will need some larger wires for sure

Steve
1968 El Camino, 402 with TKO
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post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 07, 3:32 PM
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Bryan
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Vince.
Still at the machine shop----should be ready soon
He had quite a backlog and when I checked a couple of weeks ago, it was on the stand next in line for dissassembly.
I'm gonna be traveling for the next couple of weeks, so I will check again when I get back.
Would love to get it back in the car for a couple of shows coming up.
I miss my ride

Bryan's toyz

59 ElCamino 454/TKO 5spd--(daddy)
66 ElCamino 3oh7/TKO 5spd (mousey) Almost done On the street now!!!
65 Ranchero v8/4-spd, that my uncle bought new
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post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 07, 5:15 PM Thread Starter
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Vince
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Thanks Steve as always for the info - is that your car on that link?

Whats the diff between the 4 pin and 5 pin relays, can either be used? That link I have to ebay for the relay has a diode in there...whats that all about?

And Bryan, keep us posted if you would regarding that motor!

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
69-CHVL is offline  
post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 07, 6:50 PM
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Steve
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

The normal Bosch relays have 5 pins because the switch inside can be used in either a normally on or a normally off configuration. Or put more electronically it is a DPST switch :-) (read Double Pole Single Throw).

You can also do other creative things with a DPST switch like setup A or B switching configurations and such.

The 4 pin relay will be a simple SPST switch with most likely a normally off and turned on by coil current.

For your headlights you can use either type of relay.

The diode will connect a couple of the terminals, I don't remember which off the top of my head, to reduce contact arcing mostly with impedance loads like electric motors. I do not think there are needed on a resistive load like headlights.

And finally, yep that's my ride in the pictures. It is a good 20/20 car: 20 feet away of 20 MPH and it looks pretty good

Steve
1968 El Camino, 402 with TKO
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post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 07, 7:05 PM Thread Starter
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Vince
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Steve...those pictures of your headlights on your garage door say it all.

I'm gonna get those relays off of Ebay just for convience purposes. Guess I just wont use the center terminal.

Thanks fellas!

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 07, 7:07 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

There are also 5-pin SPST relays
Thes relays will turn the power on to two separate items---one lead for each headlamp.

These particular relays will have 2pins that are marked as #87

The SPDT relays will have pins numbered----30, 87, 87a, and 58, 86 relay coil.

The 30 to 87a contact is made with NO power to the relay coil (85-86)
When the coil is energized the power will flow from 30 to 87.

For the headlamps---either can be used, but there will be NO connection to 87a

SPDT relays can be used for remote electric window operations as they capabilities to switch polarities.

I use 2 of these in each door to operate the 'window down' with my key off. one on each lead of the window. this gets power to the down side of the window and ground

(the exterior door handles hare inoperative on the 59----a key is needed to either open the door or roll window down)

I will keep you all posted on my engine

Bryan's toyz

59 ElCamino 454/TKO 5spd--(daddy)
66 ElCamino 3oh7/TKO 5spd (mousey) Almost done On the street now!!!
65 Ranchero v8/4-spd, that my uncle bought new
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post #11 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 07, 7:12 PM Thread Starter
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Vince
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Thanks Bryan great info!

I'm gonna be a relay swinging mofo after all this!

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
69-CHVL is offline  
post #12 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 07, 12:08 AM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

ebay one no good. is using normally closed contact not open one plus coil and power terminal are connected together but need to be separate for your use. its for alarm use

look at item 140147446906 for relay you want. rip out wire in middle of connector.

those are both bosch relay knock-offs so either relay would work but the harness/plug in the posted one is no good. relay available in any auto parts store.

i personally would put 2 relays on each side, so if one relay or wiring fails you still have the lows or highs on the other side. split them up on breakers or just use fusible links, i think link is 2 sizes smaller than wire, so #18 link for #16 wire.

Peter
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post #13 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 07, 7:42 AM Thread Starter
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Vince
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Pete, I was just gonna move the wire to the other spot on the connector - that should work right?

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #14 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 07, 9:45 AM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

no, look at pic there are 2 terminals connected that need to be separate. you have to cut that short wire where 2 joined to use.

relay is to change alarm transistor output into relay. transistor switches ground.

cant type well here hurt right hand on weekend so ask back specific questions.

Peter

Last edited by Peter F.; Aug 13th, 07 at 10:01 AM.
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post #15 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 07, 9:59 AM Thread Starter
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Vince
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter F. View Post

relay is to change alarm transistor output into relay. transistor switches ground.

Peter

yea I was gonna separate those two wires cause its not needed.

Not sure I understand the above sentence. I was gonna use this relay cause its pretty cheap. The others are pretty $$$, at that point I might as well go and get the MAD kits.

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
69-CHVL is offline  
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