Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz - Page 3 - Chevelle Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical problems.

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post #31 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 6:03 PM Thread Starter
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Vince
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

I just went and got a set of H5001 and H5006. The watts are 35/35 and 50....surprised they are that low.

So on high beam I'm only pulling 8.3 amps (100/12)...according to those charts 16g wire is more than enough, as is a 20a fuse.

Now, the low beam with the 35/35 rating, does that mean 70w each when on high, or just 35?

Either way, were still low on the amperage draw.

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
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post #32 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 7:34 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

35 on low
35 on hi
only one element in the sealed beam is on whether hi or low
when you hit the dimmer from low to hi---low is completely shut down.
Only one circuit at a time.

I used 12ga from the battery to the relays>>>>>14ga from the relay to the HL Bucket harness>>>and then the headlight bucket harnesses.
The bucket harnesses look to be 16ga, but they are only a foot long, so I am not concerned about overload at all.

I don't have any Chevelle wiring diagrams, but it is very possible that the minimum size required for the circuit is used.

The 59 used:
20ga for the tail & B-U lamps
18ga for the low beams
16ga for the hi.
Marginal, to say the least-----plus the power to light up ALL went thru the HL switch and dimmer.

16ga from the HL sw., to a dimmer, thru a bulkhead disconnect, and then out the lamps = a VERY long path and the potential to overheat the wire.

using a 16ga wire from a relay to the lamps (assuming relays on core support) removes about 6ft of underrated wiring.

Using a 12ga wire to power the relays also will remove another hi-draw load from the HL sw, thus reducing the chance for a meltdown INSIDE the car.

You WILL notice brighter lights------I have never been a HI-Beam user, unless there are absolutely no other cars in sight.
With the short power run to the lamps, My low beams are now as bright as the Hi-beams used to be.

Nearly as bright as the lighting on the T-birds and Ranger with the lil halogens.

I think I am using the same beams as you just purchased----part numbers look familiar

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59 ElCamino 454/TKO 5spd--(daddy)
66 ElCamino 3oh7/TKO 5spd (mousey) Almost done
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post #33 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 10:00 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

something seems off there. Stock dual was 50W low and 37W high and high only beam 37W or something like that. You go from 100W low beam total to around 150W high total. The lights you have give 70W low beam and 170W high beam which is too little on the low to me or too much spread.

Personally, I'd think the 4000 & 5001 together would make a better pair. I think 4000 = 50W low/37.5W high and 5001 = 50W high giving 100W low total and 175W high total.

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post #34 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 10:47 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Well looking at Sylvania's web site and specs you get to pick either the halogen H5006 at 35/35 or the non-halogen 4000 at 60/37.5. So halogen bulbs are good but are they good enough to overcome almost a 2x wattage handicap?

This is part of the gotcha with the standard DOT bulbs and part of why I just said f-it and spent the extra $$$ for the Hella european bulbs. It's kinda funny that being a cheap azz I drop that kinda change on headlights. Running the H4/H1 combo *does* mean I have to be very responsible about when and where I light up the high beams though. It is kinda fun to not only see trees and bushes on the side of the road but the color of the trees and bushes on the side of the road.

The normal DOT legal specifications are intended to limit total wattage on high beams as protection to/from idiot drivers.

Back on relays... here is an interesting piece, a waterproof 4-relay block:

http://www.rallylights.com/hella/Rel...k_Pictures.asp

One of the nice features of the better relay sockets is the ability to plug them together into blocks

Steve
1968 El Camino, 402 with TKO
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post #35 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 11:23 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

use 4 hi/lo beam lights instead?? I guess that's what i'd do.

That box is splash proof, not waterproof

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post #36 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 15th, 07, 8:09 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

The boxes that the lights came in say 12v...wonder if running them at the higher voltage makes the diff?

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #37 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 15th, 07, 8:31 AM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Yes


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post #38 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 15th, 07, 12:55 PM
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Steve
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

That is one of those little hidden complexities of life that we refer to cars as 12V systems and then run around at 13.5-14.2V all the time.

Many batteries (not just car versions), for probably good but unknown reasons, have individual cells that provide 1.5V each. A number of these are put together in series to provide the 12V total. But battery voltage varies with load somewhat, so without load you will see more than 12V so that with a designed load you see 12V.

Now bring in the charging system. It needs to provide an even higher voltage so as to be able to charge the 12+/-V battery. And 1-2V is enough to do it, so we see system voltages in that range (13.4-14.4V).

All the components in the system are designed with this in mind along with some extra design margin for reliability. But they are labeled for use in a 12V system as that is what the common reference is and it is sufficient to distinguish from the other common (6V and 24V) systems.

The difference of a couple of volts *will* make a big difference in the light output of your headlights. Thus you really do want to run them at the design target voltage and not below.

Steve
1968 El Camino, 402 with TKO
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post #39 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 15th, 07, 2:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

I'll try these lights and see what happens. I dont think a manufacturer would replace a light with something dimmer...I'm sure its brighter. Either way, its easy enough to change out.

What did you guys do for new spade connectors? The kind we need here has the "tang" on the back to hold it in the "block" that pushes onto the bulb. All the spade connectors I saw at Autozone, RadioShack, etc, dont have that tang, so the wire would be pushed out of the block when hooking it up to the bulb.

Steve, what type of breaker do you like, there's the small one that looks like it goes in a fuse block, and a much bigger beefer one that looks like it would screw down to something. The small one looks easy to change out if needbe though.

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #40 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 15th, 07, 5:08 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

I did use new terminals on all of the headlight connections. I think I used the old connector bodies. Which means I have some of the AAW connector kits floating around the garage still...

I really prefer to use the GM "type 56" (I think that is what they are called) terminals where I can. These are the original style and lock into all the connector bodies. I picked up a bag of them for my general use figuring that when I was done I could bag them into bunches of 10 and sell them on Ebay. That of course was a couple years ago now...

Here is the latest catalog entry for them:

http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M...og/219_036.PDF

I see that they now only sell them on reels of 4000 terminals
I think I only had to buy 100 or something like that. You can get these from American Autowire but it is best if you have other bits to order too or the shipping will kill you.

For breakers I did something like this:

http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M...og/219_083.PDF

This is a fuse type and you want the "type I" self resetting. This outfit has a minimum order quantity of 2 for the breakers. I used stock #46675 30A but the 20A is 46673. You are correct that these could be replaced with normal fuses in a pinch. Me likey that. Me not likey the screw connection breakers so much as it is yet more stuff to figure out how to mount.

Steve
1968 El Camino, 402 with TKO
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post #41 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 15th, 07, 10:33 PM
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Bryan
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Steve
I just got on their site and it appears the the terminals are available in pieces.
about ......$.15ea (Approx)
Minimum order of about 40 pieces.
When I ordered from them they had a $5. minimum per line item
Maybe someone needs to call and verify????


Vince

Engine builder called today.
1st and 2nd rings mixed on all 8 pistons (GMPP quality)
Valve seals bad.

He did a hone and installed new rings and valve seals.
Hope this works.
Gonna be a while before I get to it----gonna be traveling for a while.
He called just as I got off the plane in Phoenix

Bryan's toyz

59 ElCamino 454/TKO 5spd--(daddy)
66 ElCamino 3oh7/TKO 5spd (mousey) Almost done
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post #42 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 07, 5:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

All right guys...all done !

I cut all the connectors off of the headlights and soldered new ones on, shrink wraped 'em, and replaced the for bulbs. That alone made them bright. Put the 2 relay kits on, super easy to do. Except, this didn't seem to make them look any brighter, but the car wasnt running either. I'm sure it will be once its running.
Cost:

2 relay/harnesses from Ebay shipped: $9.45
10 new "Packard 59" pushon connectors : $12.00
2 breakers: $6.00

The "Packard" connectors are the PIA to get, you have to special order them froma supply house as PepBoys, A-Zone, etc dont have them. I shoulda tried the dealer.

So for under 30.00 were good to go. I do suggest cutting all the connectors for the lights and redoing them, cleaning the contact area isn't enough - I had to cut some of the wires back a few inches till I hit good copper.

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #43 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 07, 8:11 PM
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Bryan
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

You should be pleased
I sure was
And now you have removed potential fire hazard from inside the car.

Bryan's toyz

59 ElCamino 454/TKO 5spd--(daddy)
66 ElCamino 3oh7/TKO 5spd (mousey) Almost done
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post #44 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 28th, 07, 1:27 AM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Did you hit your new connectors with a soldering iron? This can be a good idea not so much for improving the electrical connection as for sealing the connection so it cannot degrade over time.

Steve
1968 El Camino, 402 with TKO
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post #45 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 28th, 07, 7:39 AM Thread Starter
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Vince
 
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Quote:
Originally Posted by vrooom3440 View Post
Did you hit your new connectors with a soldering iron? This can be a good idea not so much for improving the electrical connection as for sealing the connection so it cannot degrade over time.

Yea I did, but it does beat on the wire (insulation gets a little soft).

Ever notice that the marine guys dont like to solder wire? They perfer crimping. Know why?

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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