Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical problems.

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post #16 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 07, 10:10 AM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

cut loop and move wire and it could be used. buy extras at that price.

it's wired with common power to coil and contact. red=power, if you ground coil=orange then contact opens removing power from output=white.

find right one is easier try item 200139249843

Peter
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post #17 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 07, 10:12 AM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

oh search for "bosch relay" on ebay to find lots there cheap
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post #18 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 07, 1:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Thanks Pete, they look good...and cheap!

Just a quick test I did today. Put the VOM on the battery and I'm getting 12.4. Put the highbeams on, and I'm getting about 9.7 volts. All my connections are clean and tight. This was w/o the motor running, not sure if that makes a diff or not. Looks like I have alot to gain by getting the voltage up to these lights.

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***

Last edited by 69-CHVL; Aug 13th, 07 at 4:34 PM.
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post #19 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 07, 2:14 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Motor running will change the overall system voltage.

Think of it this way, your battery can push out 12.4V and the charging system needs to push out more so you can charge the battery. Typical system voltage with the engine running are around 14V.

The other factor is that it is normal for the voltage to drop some under a load. But probably not that much.

I would try the test again with the engine running and see what voltages you get. It sounds like you have a pretty significant drop there.

Steve
1968 El Camino, 402 with TKO
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post #20 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 07, 2:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Yea I tried it again, about 14.04 running at idle/11.5-11.8 at all the lights w/high beams on. The ground wire needs an upgrade cause if I throw one lead on the battery the voltage at the lights get to about 12. All the connections to the lights look good (but old), no melted wire or corrosion. I "pierced" or poked through the wire upstream a bit just to get away from the connectors to check the voltage and it was the same 11.8 volts, so it looks like there is just voltage drop due to length rather than connection quality.

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #21 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 07, 3:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Last question guys: these relays and sockets seem to come with 16 ga wire - is that sufficent?

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #22 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 07, 4:31 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

#16 should be fine for that short length. i believe long stock wire from switch to lights is 16awg so that little piece will be much better.

your light circuit has about a 2V drop or 14% so fairly significant change once fixed.

Peter
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post #23 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Guys what size breaker do you suggest? I'm thinking a 15a for the 16g wire?

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #24 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 10:52 AM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Well Vince it all depends on what kind of bulbs you want to run...

That 15A would probably work fine for the low beams.

My setup has 230 watts on high beam so it pulls close to 20A. That is not gonna work too well with a 15A fuse ;-)

I put dual 30A breakers on mine, one for low and another for high. Not sure now if that was the smallest Maxi size rating or just the next bump up from 20A. It may have also been influenced by buying the breakers from a wholesaler with a minimum order quantity too ;-)

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1968 El Camino, 402 with TKO
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post #25 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

I'm gonna just run a set of halogen bulbs, combined with the relays (which have 16g wires).

I just came from Autozone, only have 20,25, and 30A breakers.

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #26 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Wait...do you suggest 1 or 2 breakers? I was gonna put a breaker on each relay so if there's a problem, at least on set of lights will work.

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #27 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 1:06 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

20A breakers should be fine

i would put 2 breakers hi/low and 4 relays hi/lo both sides seperate

Peter
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post #28 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 3:33 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

I went with one breaker/relay for high and one for low just as you are thinking of doing Vince.

The setup Peter describes might buy you a bit of fault tolerance should a relay fail but at the cost of more little blocks with more wire connections.

You could run the 20A breaker for low beams but I would run the 25A minimum for high beams. If you run regular off the shelf halogen headlights you will probably never exceed the 20A on high, but if you step up to something in the H4/H1 category like I have you will want the extra margin.

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post #29 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 4:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Thanks fellas great info. What I find confusing is the breaker ratings: I dont know what amp rating 16g wire has, I'm guessing around 10-12a??? Why would we then put a much bigger breaker on that circuit...seems a bit conterintuitive. While I'm at it, I'm gonna cut all the terminals off of all the wires and redo them (solder, shrink wrap). Might as well go all the way.

What Pete is suggesting is some redundancy with the multiple relays. This relay setup looks perfect for that:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-2...spagenameZWDVW

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90 11.5/124mph
*11 C6, 6.2, 6spd
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
***In progress...04 Mustang, 454, TKO***
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post #30 of 61 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 07, 5:08 PM
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Re: Headlight relay upgrade...for the cheap azz

Yeah that would would probably work fine in a redundant setup.

For normal use I would want to determine which relay terminals are jumpered together by that big yellow and small white.

This is part of what I really like about the power distribution box pulled from a junker. Ford makes a nice one that combines a bunch of relay sockets with more fuse sockets than you can use. Jeeps also have a nice box for relays. When you start to add more relays it can get a bit "busy" with all the wires and mounting and other stuff. The box wraps it all nice and tidy.

Wire size selection is rather more complicated than you might imagine. I wrote a long discussion on TC once about it. It really is a combination of amperage and length and a host of other lesser parameters. It does not help that just about every reference table I have found varies on this topic. But here are a couple of references:

http://www.tessco.com/yts/industry/p...tml#wire_table
http://www.rallylights.com/other/wiring.htm

That last one also sells the very cool Hella H4/H1 conversion bulbs.
The first one says you can run 50A through a 16g wire... but only for 3'

The breakers are more about short circuit protection than overload protection. Most wires can handle much higher currents just for much shorter periods of time.

Steve
1968 El Camino, 402 with TKO
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