What are these components and... - Chevelle Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical problems.

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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 8:47 AM Thread Starter
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Big D
 
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What are these components and...

Morning Everyone,

Please help identify these components on my 69 and if there are modern replacement items that make these obsolete?

Thanks,

Big D
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 8:55 AM
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Bill
 
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Re: What are these components and...

1st pic is looks like a relay and some kind of old rev limiter, neither factory. I have an old Autometer rev limiter that looks like that but the connections are all in a row. 2nd is an old electronic ignition, not factory. 3rd is factory horn relay. 4th is factory voltage regulator.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 10:35 AM
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Bill
 
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Re: What are these components and...

Man I would be hard pressed not to rip and rebuild. Those are some heavy gauge wires dangling and screaming FIRE. I would order the two under hood harnesses from a company like M&H and choose to have them set it up for HEI. Most modern ignitions today can not use ballast resister wiring and need full 12 volts to the coil. You need to determine if your alternator has been modified to ONE WIRE or if it still has two connectors present. If still stock you can order a new Solid state voltage regulator that looks just like the original. If not you need to let the wiring company know you have a One Wire alternator and they can build to match. If you think you need help get someone to advise you. The two harnesses would be about $250 plus distributor, voltage regulator and horn relay if needed. The end result will be an updated and clean solution but more importantly safe.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billdini View Post
Man I would be hard pressed not to rip and rebuild. Those are some heavy gauge wires dangling and screaming FIRE. I would order the two under hood harnesses from a company like M&H and choose to have them set it up for HEI. Most modern ignitions today can not use ballast resister wiring and need full 12 volts to the coil. You need to determine if your alternator has been modified to ONE WIRE or if it still has two connectors present. If still stock you can order a new Solid state voltage regulator that looks just like the original. If not you need to let the wiring company know you have a One Wire alternator and they can build to match. If you think you need help get someone to advise you. The two harnesses would be about $250 plus distributor, voltage regulator and horn relay if needed. The end result will be an updated and clean solution but more importantly safe.
I took the picture because all that is being removed from the firewall and rad support for cleanup, relain, etc. Just wanted to make sure in the future if they were components that were needed in the future when things go back together or if there were upgrades. I know the car suffered from dim headlights as well.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 11:41 AM
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Re: What are these components and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosEnvy View Post
I took the picture because all that is being removed from the firewall and rad support for cleanup, relain, etc. Just wanted to make sure in the future if they were components that were needed in the future when things go back together or if there were upgrades. I know the car suffered from dim headlights as well.
I didn't want to play games with wiring and replaced it all in my 68. Expensive yes (1 grand) for all harnesses but I do not have dim headlights at all with halogens. Yes the headlght switch does have some voltage drop and it can be corrected with the headlight relay setup but I don't need it. I would go stock plus any mods such as HEI, etc. Replacing all my harnesses ( the dash is a killer) was the best thing I did to this car. Good luck with your cleanup
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 12:20 PM
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Re: What are these components and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billdini View Post
Man I would be hard pressed not to rip and rebuild. Those are some heavy gauge wires dangling and screaming FIRE. I would order the two under hood harnesses from a company like M&H and choose to have them set it up for HEI. Most modern ignitions today can not use ballast resister wiring and need full 12 volts to the coil. You need to determine if your alternator has been modified to ONE WIRE or if it still has two connectors present. If still stock you can order a new Solid state voltage regulator that looks just like the original. If not you need to let the wiring company know you have a One Wire alternator and they can build to match. If you think you need help get someone to advise you. The two harnesses would be about $250 plus distributor, voltage regulator and horn relay if needed. The end result will be an updated and clean solution but more importantly safe.
Bill, electrical is definitely my weak point. In fact, I can never fully wrap my brain around, nor fully understand the operation, and the need for relays, regardless of how many times people explain it to me.

So I haven't any doubt that you're more knowledgeable about electrical wiring than I am. But just to be clear, I just want to point out to others that there are plenty of three wire alternators available which are both an upgrade and modern, and yet still have internal voltage regulators. I say that because it kind of sounded like you were implying that the only two choices in alternators were one-wire deals, or three wire which still use external voltage regulators like the old original 60's alternators do. But ofcourse that isn't the case.

I plan on using much of "MAD Electric" wiring products and advice. And the owner of that company, (who claims to be a former GM electrical engineer) strongly recommends that we avoid one wire alternators. He says that GM used to have one-wire alternators, and their three wire ones were an upgrade, and that now we have aftermarket companies going "backwards" by offering one wire alternators as if that's an upgrade, while the reality is that a one wire alternator is a downgrade and is more old hat than the three wire set up is. He recommends we use the 94 amp alternator that can be bought from any auto parts store for a 1984 "H.O" motor Z28 Camaro, because it's a 12 SI piece which flows plenty of air to keep itself cool, is a three-wire deal, and with a 94 amp output supplies more amperage than any of us will ever need, unless we're using an extreme sound system with huge amplifiers to shake the neighborhood with sound everywhere we drive.

BTW, with his underhood set up, he also eliminates the factory electrical buss bar, (located somewhere near the radiator I believe) which he says is the primary reason that our cars have dim headlights.

70 Chevelle SS clone (632 CI powered).
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 2:09 PM
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Re: What are these components and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyGman View Post
Bill, electrical is definitely my weak point. In fact, I can never fully wrap my brain around, nor fully understand the operation, and the need for relays, regardless of how many times people explain it to me.

So I haven't any doubt that you're more knowledgeable about electrical wiring than I am. But just to be clear, I just want to point out to others that there are plenty of three wire alternators available which are both an upgrade and modern, and yet still have internal voltage regulators. I say that because it kind of sounded like you were implying that the only two choices in alternators were one-wire deals, or three wire which still use external voltage regulators like the old original 60's alternators do. But ofcourse that isn't the case.

I plan on using much of "MAD Electric" wiring products and advice. And the owner of that company, (who claims to be a former GM electrical engineer) strongly recommends that we avoid one wire alternators. He says that GM used to have one-wire alternators, and their three wire ones were an upgrade, and that now we have aftermarket companies going "backwards" by offering one wire alternators as if that's an upgrade, while the reality is that a one wire alternator is a downgrade and is more old hat than the three wire set up is. He recommends we use the 94 amp alternator that can be bought from any auto parts store for a 1984 "H.O" motor Z28 Camaro, because it's a 12 SI piece which flows plenty of air to keep itself cool, is a three-wire deal, and with a 94 amp output supplies more amperage than any of us will ever need, unless we're using an extreme sound system with huge amplifiers to shake the neighborhood with sound everywhere we drive.

BTW, with his underhood set up, he also eliminates the factory electrical buss bar, (located somewhere near the radiator I believe) which he says is the primary reason that our cars have dim headlights.
Billy, In my case my car came with the higher output 3 wire 62 amp alternator because I have AC and kept it that way. The route I suggested I have and it works great. I changed everything and replaced all grounds. The bus bar he is talking about is really just a junction behind the battery. Actually most big DC take off's are for the AC and my power top and come off the horn relay next to the voltage regulator. They really didn't design these cars to support a lot of options and everything is an add on. From what I saw with my multimeter there was almost 1/2 volt drop over the dash and floor switch itself but my headlights are bright, not LED bright but halogen bright. I had M&H convert my engine harness for 12 volts but used the same connection type on my coil to support my Pertronix LS 2 distributor module however the wire is now pink and not cloth white as original. I went with a look alike Solid state voltage regulator. I tried to keep the original look of the car. There are many ways to skin the cat but being an engineer myself I know 50 year old wire has high impedance connections everywhere and I just didn't want to deal with it. Sorry about the pic. That was long ago before I learned how to take a pic for this site on my iPhone
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 20, 6:58 PM Thread Starter
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Big D
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69SS454 View Post
1st pic is looks like a relay and some kind of old rev limiter, neither factory. I have an old Autometer rev limiter that looks like that but the connections are all in a row. 2nd is an old electronic ignition, not factory. 3rd is factory horn relay. 4th is factory voltage regulator.
First pic. It appears that relay was connected directly to the battery. Then from the relay through the firewall to one side of an ammeter. Then from the ammeter back through the firewall to the relay. The second(round object) was wired to the small aftermarket 3 wire tach that had been mounted above the steering column. Needless to say all the wiring from the firewall forward is now in a box.

The alternator looks to be 3 wire. One large guage wire, and a small two wire plug.

Thanks for the information.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 20, 7:36 PM
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Re: What are these components and...

BigD, i replaced all the wiring in my '68 as well, it was literally plug and play. If you have you under hood harnesses made to your specs, it makes the task simple. I used the AIM for a routing guide for some connections. Any electrical component that you reuse, be sure to clean your terminals well, and use di-electric grease when you assemble your harnesses to your switches , and plug ins. Terry
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 20, 8:53 PM Thread Starter
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Big D
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68-13427 View Post
BigD, i replaced all the wiring in my '68 as well, it was literally plug and play. If you have you under hood harnesses made to your specs, it makes the task simple. I used the AIM for a routing guide for some connections. Any electrical component that you reuse, be sure to clean your terminals well, and use di-electric grease when you assemble your harnesses to your switches , and plug ins. Terry
One step at a time. Right now it seems i am simply filling up my basement with pieces taken off the car. What is AIM?
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 20, 11:18 PM
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Re: What are these components and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosEnvy View Post
One step at a time. Right now it seems i am simply filling up my basement with pieces taken off the car. What is AIM?
Assembly Instruction Manual. Worth it's weight in gold.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Jul 4th, 20, 7:22 AM
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Re: What are these components and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosEnvy View Post
First pic. It appears that relay was connected directly to the battery. Then from the relay through the firewall to one side of an ammeter. Then from the ammeter back through the firewall to the relay. The second(round object) was wired to the small aftermarket 3 wire tach that had been mounted above the steering column. Needless to say all the wiring from the firewall forward is now in a box.

The alternator looks to be 3 wire. One large guage wire, and a small two wire plug.

Thanks for the information.
Looking at your voltage regulator it has a rivet holding the case on an is probably Solid State. Original or replacements always have a screw to access adjustment inside if needed. If it is paint it black and reuse to save $40 bucks. Every dime counts with these restorations and they add up fast.
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