Starter wire routing. - Chevelle Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical problems.

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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 1st, 20, 5:13 PM Thread Starter
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steve
 
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Starter wire routing.

I am running the positive cable and the starter wires in my 67. The engine is a 540 with a mini starter. I have the big tube 2 1/8 headers on it, the ones that one tube goes over the chassis. It's pretty cramped down there. Ant picture how you ran it or any ideas.

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 1st, 20, 8:29 PM
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Re: Starter wire routing.

Steve,
I can tell you my experience and what I did.
I have a 496 with 2 inch Lemon headers and a Powermaster mini starter. The positive battery cable and power wire to starter ( AAW Classic Update Kit) were very close to one of the header tubes. So close if fact that the nut on the larger stud of the starter could not be removed all the way without loosening the passenger header or the starter. The wires were getting charred.
So I will tell you the changes I made.
1. I reclocked the starter to get as much clearance as possible between positive wire and the header tube.
2. I installed a Mad Enterprises, Start Em Up kit which removed the alternator wire from that area all together and makes the positive cable to the starter hot only during cranking.
3. I wrapped the 12 inches of the positive cable closest to the starter with one inch header wrap and secured with metal wire ties.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 1st, 20, 10:37 PM
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Re: Starter wire routing.

I routed my cable and starter wires along the firewall to a Ford solenoid mounted somewhat in line with the starter on the firewall. Then dropped down to the starter through a wire tube mounted to the rear of the engine and to the starter. The only wire running to the starter is a cable with a jumper to the S terminal.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 12:12 PM
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Re: Starter wire routing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
The only wire running to the starter is a cable with a jumper to the S terminal.
Eric,
The following comes from Mark at Mad Electric. He highly recommends against the jumper on the mini starter. IIRC it is due to the ability of the starter to disengage when using a jumper. I figure he knows more about it than I do.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 12:27 PM
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Re: Starter wire routing.

Is you battery in trunk?
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 2:29 PM
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Re: Starter wire routing.

My positive battery cable comes down from the battery, across the passenger side engine mount, along the oil pan and to the starter (i.e. factory routing pretty much.)

I just re-routed the power to the fuse box direct to the battery instead of having the fusible link at the starter. So, the only wire I have going to the starter other than the battery cable is the ignition switch trigger wire. I decided to route that over to the alternator along the same path as the alternator feed, then down the block to just above the fuel pump, and then run it alongside the battery cable back to the starter. I have no more wires going down the firewall to the back of the engine anymore.

(Note that mine is a '72, passenger side alternator.)

Here's a picture of it partially assembled (once it is the rest of the way assembled I can post a picture if you need it.) The purple wire is the igniton switch to the starter wire (just wasn't run yet, waiting to install the rest of the parts then run the wire.) All the wiring to the engine comes down through the conduit along the passenger valve cover. Trans temp gauge, water temp gauge, alternator feed, alternator regulator, electric choke, starter, main power feed, etc. are all in there. Main power wire runs to the battery alongside the negative battery cable that connects to the alternator bracket, then just drops down to connect to positive battery post (again, not shown in this picture, but it's the big red wire.)
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1972 Chevelle, MJ 467, 200-4r non-lockup, 12 bolt 3.73
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 5:00 PM
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Re: Starter wire routing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blm View Post
Eric,
The following comes from Mark at Mad Electric. He highly recommends against the jumper on the mini starter. IIRC it is due to the ability of the starter to disengage when using a jumper. I figure he knows more about it than I do.
Electrically off is electrically off. The mini starter retracts via a spring in the starter drive. If it does not retract there are other issues.

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1967 Olds Cutlass 468 BBC/T400
1963 Plymouth Fury 440/Torqueflite
2007 Ford Mustang GT (momma's car)
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 6:30 PM
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Re: Starter wire routing.

Brad,

Do you have photos of your set up? I’ll be in a similar situation shortly.

Joe

1967 SS 396 Chevelle
Formerly Bolero Red
Soon to be a 427 equipped Tahoe Turquoise head turner!
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 7:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Starter wire routing.

Thanks everyone for your input. I ordered another mini starter that I can clock. I will have that Sunday and will install it.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 2nd, 20, 7:45 PM
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Re: Starter wire routing.

Not quite.

The problem with the high induction, high torque mini starters is that once they start spinning, they sometimes start to create an electric field of their own.

This is fine when you don’t have them jumpered to the start terminal, as when you let go of the key, power is removed from the start terminal.

But, when you jumper the battery power to the start terminal, and then apply power to the battery terminal via an external solenoid, the battery terminal on the starter provides power to the start terminal and the starter spins. When you let go of the key, you remove power to the starter from the remote solenoid. But, because the starter has created its own electric field, it keeps the start terminal energized and keeps the starter engaged.

This is bad and why it is not recommended to jumper these high induction, high torque mini starters and why you should still run a separate line to the start terminal that is isolated from the starter’s battery terminal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
Electrically off is electrically off. The mini starter retracts via a spring in the starter drive. If it does not retract there are other issues.

1972 Chevelle, MJ 467, 200-4r non-lockup, 12 bolt 3.73
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 20, 3:21 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Starter wire routing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew540 View Post
Is you battery in trunk?
Yes

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 20, 9:39 AM
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Re: Starter wire routing.

My battery is in the trunk I have a 1965 Chevelle which has a little narrower frame than the 1968 and on. My alternator wire goes back to the directly to the battery via #8 wire through the frame but first has a stop at the junction box where the battery use to be in the front. On mine (old Stahl Headers 1 tube went outside frame) I used to have the starter wire go forward and turn back into the frame by the motor mount. With the new Lemons all tubes (2 1/8) are inside the frame and you needed a specific starter (Powermaster) for this which has kind of an odd mounting perch compared to most starters. I could no longer really use my old system. Ended up having to have the wire go back towards the rear. The wire goes from the starter which the lug faces the oil pan and goes between the starter and oil pan toward the back and then around where the trans lines come out transmission go up and over the collector and then into the frame. I have high temp insulation for about 2 feet. I also put a boot on the starter wire so at least it was not bare metal. The clearance between the starter and the header is close like one guy said above. Here are a few photos.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Jul 3rd, 20, 11:03 AM
blm
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Re: Starter wire routing.

Here are a couple pics of mine from the underneath. It is really hard to see everything. The lighter colored wire is the positive cable wrapped in header wrap and it goes forward to a ford solenoid. The second wire on the larger stud goes rearward to energize a relay on the firewall. The wire to the solenoid goes to that same relay and is electrically connected to the purple start wire.
Looking at the pics I secured the header wrap to positive cable with safety wire that I twisted with safety wire pliers.
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