Turn Signal Light Issue and Horn/Horn Relay - Chevelle Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical problems.

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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 20, 7:05 PM Thread Starter
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Turn Signal Light Issue and Horn/Horn Relay

Any observations welcome on this probelm which I discovered today. The car is a 1972 but I gotta assume that 70 ->72 are all the same?

#1 Front left turn signal and left turn signal indicator in dash don't work.

#2 Rear left turn signal indicator light works as would be expected.

#3 All parking / running lights work as expected.

#4 When the left turn signal is set to flash I can hear the "flasher" working up there under the dash but no light flashing in the dash or the front turn signal. Rear signal light is flashing at this time.

Can't believe it is the flasher because the rear turn indicator works. I am thinking it has to be wiring but am I looking at one problem causing the front signal indicator AND the left turn dash indicator to both be inoperable OR is the two separate problems. Remember the rear turn signal light works.

Any ideas appreciated...Thx, Oman

Last edited by LevonH; Feb 27th, 20 at 4:28 PM. Reason: Added Horn in Subject
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 20, 7:11 PM
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

Check the output of the light blue wire coming from the connector under the dash on the column. It connects to the turn signal switch mounted in the column. The lt blue goes to the left front turn and the dark blue goes to the right front. The turn signal switch determines where the power goes depending on where it is set.

The connector you are looking for looks like the right picture in the attachment
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 20, 7:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

Hello Al!

I saw a post of yours with something from MAD Electronics....did that come for the package I sent to you some months back?

Can you explain a bit more about whats going on here......? PLEASE don't say something is hosed inside the column P-L-E-A-S-E. Are you thinking one [roblem or two separate issues?

On another matter we talked about ....the 3.04 first gear in the RIchmond. I did the swap about 9 months ago and I love it!!!!! First to second RPM drop is much smaller and it doesn't feel like a truck in low gear. Great compromise IMHO having the 3.04's in 1st. & 1 to 1 5th with 3.31's for the highway.



Oman
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 20, 8:10 PM
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

Dont panic...its just a test.
Do the tests with the blinker on.
May just need to wiggle and snug the plug a bit.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 20, 8:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

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Originally Posted by LKN BCK View Post
Dont panic...its just a test.
Do the tests with the blinker on.
May just need to wiggle and snug the plug a bit.
LKN BCK

No panic, seriously now I was just expressing my desire to avoid running new wires or a whole switch assy thru that column. Going to look at it tomorrow after I return from the gym.

THx
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 20, 8:32 PM
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Arrow Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by oman View Post
Hello Al!

I saw a post of yours with something from MAD Electronics....did that come for the package I sent to you some months back?

Can you explain a bit more about whats going on here......? PLEASE don't say something is hosed inside the column P-L-E-A-S-E. Are you thinking one [roblem or two separate issues?

On another matter we talked about ....the 3.04 first gear in the RIchmond. I did the swap about 9 months ago and I love it!!!!! First to second RPM drop is much smaller and it doesn't feel like a truck in low gear. Great compromise IMHO having the 3.04's in 1st. & 1 to 1 5th with 3.31's for the highway.



Oman
I've been a MAD disciple before I ever knew MAD existed. The guy that runs that site knows his ship.

I'm glad that trans is working out well for you. Finding that gear and getting the guy to give it up was the trick.

Your problem might be a bad connection at that plug. If you see power coming out of that plug then your turn signal switch is ok and your issue is related to wiring running out to the light through the front lighting harness. If no power then the turn signal switch may be the issue and removal of the steering wheel is about as hard as it gets because the switch is in the upper portion of the column.

If there is power there, the next place to check the light blue wire is at the bulkhead terminal under the brake booster. It might be a bad contact there. I'm assuming you have already checked the bulb and checked for power at the front turn signal pigtail.

Power not coming from the lt blue wire would affect the dash indicator and the left front turn signal. From the connector, the lt blue wire runs to the back of the gauge connector then off to the front turn signal.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 20, 9:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUTCH MAX HEADWORK View Post
I've been a MAD disciple before I ever knew MAD existed. The guy that runs that site knows his ship.

I'm glad that trans is working out well for you. Finding that gear and getting the guy to give it up was the trick.

Your problem might be a bad connection at that plug. If you see power coming out of that plug then your turn signal switch is ok and your issue is related to wiring running out to the light through the front lighting harness. If no power then the turn signal switch may be the issue and removal of the steering wheel is about as hard as it gets because the switch is in the upper portion of the column.

If there is power there, the next place to check the light blue wire is at the bulkhead terminal under the brake booster. It might be a bad contact there. I'm assuming you have already checked the bulb and checked for power at the front turn signal pigtail.

Power not coming from the lt blue wire would affect the dash indicator and the left front turn signal. From the connector, the lt blue wire runs to the back of the gauge connector then off to the front turn signal.
That helps a lot. Last question (I hope): Does the blue wire supply power ONLY to the left side front signal lamp? Considering the way it is behaving with 3 out of four signal lamps working I have to conclude that the blue wire is power for the front left signal light only?
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 20, 10:15 PM
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by oman View Post
That helps a lot. Last question (I hope): Does the blue wire supply power ONLY to the left side front signal lamp? Considering the way it is behaving with 3 out of four signal lamps working I have to conclude that the blue wire is power for the front left signal light only?
LT BLUE left front signal and dash indicator only. Yellow is left rear turn and brake lt. green is rt rear turn and brake lt. Dark blue is right front turn and dash indicator. Dark blue left front turn and dash indicator.

The dash indicators and front turn signals get their power through the turn signal switch through the connector I showed earlier

If you have not yet checked the bulb and contact at the front left signal, I would start there. Often the indicator light won't work when a bulb goes out in the front housing or rear brakelight/turn signal. If you step on the brakes and one indicator comes on, it means the brake light or a turn signal is out.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 20, 8:08 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

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Originally Posted by DUTCH MAX HEADWORK View Post
LT BLUE left front signal and dash indicator only. Yellow is left rear turn and brake lt. green is rt rear turn and brake lt. Dark blue is right front turn and dash indicator. Dark blue left front turn and dash indicator.

The dash indicators and front turn signals get their power through the turn signal switch through the connector I showed earlier

If you have not yet checked the bulb and contact at the front left signal, I would start there. Often the indicator light won't work when a bulb goes out in the front housing or rear brakelight/turn signal. If you step on the brakes and one indicator comes on, it means the brake light or a turn signal is out.
Learning more every time we exchange messages. I have already swapped good bulbs into both the front signal light socket and into the indicator socket in the dash. The issue is not the bulbs in the dash or in the front signal. I did not check brake light bulbs however. Going to rain here today so I will get at it some time this afternoon.

THANKYOU for this explanation!!!! Chasing down an electrical issue when you have no idea how the wiring is installed is ipossible. Now I have a road map of how this bucket of bolts is wired.

Will advise.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 20, 1:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

For Al and Dan

Thank you both for the advice. Lights they are a-flashing again. Issue was the connection under the column. Put a little "electrical connection cleaner"/ spray on it and POOF all is well. I certainly did not want to dig around under there looking for a bad connection, broken wire and you guys had the info that was needed when it was needed.

This worked out just the way this board was intended to work...the exchange of classic Chevelle information. If only there was a way to get the G-damn politics off the board. Oh well.

Thanks again to both of you.

Oman
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 26th, 20, 3:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

Oman back again ....this thread seems to be dead so I would like to change the subject ....OK?

Now working on non working horns. Hows that for double talk? Maybe I should run for office in Washington.

Anyway here is the deal.....

I toasted a couple of wires at the horn realy some tome ago. Fuseable links saved my bacon. Short was caused by worn insulation ...short story was SMOKE but the links came thru for me. Replaced the links and all is well as far as running but the horns are not working. Opened old horn relay and things were sorta black aling the coil windings..part of the plastic on one end of the coil winding (contains the coiled wires in position) was partially melted.

Here is where I now am:

Supplied 12 volts to each horn (battery to horn jumper) ...they are Ok. Wire from horn relay to horns has continuity, I doubt that there is a cut under the radiator top plate. Found one of Al's posts about wire location on the horn relay but lost the link and can't find it now (pi$$ed)! Need position of horn related wires on blade connector in side of horn relay, which is plugged in on top and bottom. Dean mentions a fuse blowing????? https://www.chevelles.com/forums/27-...o-i-begin.html Horn Fuse???? (BTW this is a 1972 which had the original factory horn relay) I have a spare relay (OEM) in my stash. Sitting on the bench I have continuity between the lug and only one blade connector position. Never used that relay before ....does my test indicate it is good or it is NG?

Oman
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 26th, 20, 3:34 PM
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

Oman -

Sounds like a bad horn relay. If it was working, you should be able to hear the relay click on/off when you hit the horn button or apply 12v to the relay. You've demonstrated the horns work by bypassing the relay. If you can verify you're getting 12v to the horn relay when you press the horn button, then I think you've isolated the problem to the relay.

jim
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 26th, 20, 3:39 PM
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

The horn relay activates by the black wire coming from the horn contacts on the steering column, its a ground signal. The horn relay has 12v all the time supplied from the battery by the power stud on the relay. When the relay energizes it supplies 12v to the horns. Very simple, jumper a ground to the black wire on the horn relay if it activates and the horns work then your problem goes back towards the column. If it does not activate and you have 12v at the stud, its the relay.

You're just jealous because you can't hear the voices!

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 26th, 20, 3:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

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Originally Posted by Jim's69Ragtop View Post
Oman -

Sounds like a bad horn relay. If it was working, you should be able to hear the relay click on/off when you hit the horn button or apply 12v to the relay. You've demonstrated the horns work by bypassing the relay. If you can verify you're getting 12v to the horn relay when you press the horn button, then I think you've isolated the problem to the relay.

jim
I think I have it isolated but I dont want to connect the horn wires to the relay until I am sure which wire goes to which terminal. on the realy. Does my test on the replacement relay sound like it is good?

BTW how are things in The Valley? Worked for H.P. for over 20 years and spent a lot of time out there. Always loved the climate and all the places you could go for recreation / hobbies. Actually had a job offer in Cupertino (where the Apple building now is) but the house prices made my head spin and made my wife's grip on the check book tighten up tremendously at the same time. It got to a point where the "old" (read that the REAL HP) gave up on expansions in the bay area because of the issues with salary / real estate and attracting people to the company. Now HP is just a ghost of what it once was...SAD SAD SAD.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 26th, 20, 3:45 PM
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Re: Turn Signal Light Issue

So the original horn relay is still on the firewall then?
(BTW, there are no horn wires under the radiator top plate.)

Ground out the small black wire on the horn relay and see if the relay clicks.

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