Electrical Ground Issue - Starter - Chevelle Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical problems.

 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 8:22 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Burk
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 53
Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

I have a 1972 Chevelle Malibu with a SB 350 that has developed an issue when starting the engine.
Sometimes it turns over fine, other times it does not. When it does not there is not even a click when the key is turned.
When it will not turn over and no click, I jump it from another vehicle, it then turns over like normal.
This leads me to believe that I have a grounding problem. So, I replace the negative battery cable with a new one,
cleaned up the engine block connection and the fender mount connection where the little wire goes that comes out of the negative battery cable. I have not had the same problem again, but, it does hesitate slightly before it does turn over. This makes me think that there is still a grounding issue present. I have not looked at the starter solenoid wiring yet. Which wire on the solenoid is the ground? I welcome other ideas as well.
IceBurk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 8:37 AM
Senior Tech Team
Eric
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Poteau, Ok
Posts: 4,160
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

There is no external ground wire on the solenoid it is internally grounded to the chassis.
Saltherring likes this.

Your just jealous because you can't hear the voices!

1967 Olds Cutlass 468 BBC/T400
1963 Plymouth Fury 440/Torqueflite
2007 Ford Mustang GT (momma's car)
oldcutlass is offline  
post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 9:38 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Burk
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 53
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

I appreciate the quick response. Thanks for the information.
Do you have any suggestions as for where I should troubleshoot next?
IceBurk is offline  
 
post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 9:47 AM
Senior Tech Team
Vince
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 8,319
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceBurk View Post
I appreciate the quick response. Thanks for the information.
Do you have any suggestions as for where I should troubleshoot next?
how is the positive cable condition??
voltage @ battery compared to voltage @ starter [both pos, + neg]

68-Malibu 427bbc/t4oo/3.73-12bolt/pro charger f1-r
VinceS427bb is offline  
post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 9:54 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Burk
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 53
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

The positive battery cable is old. Appears to be okay but it is old. I have not done a voltage check yet.
As I am not good with electricity, how do I check?
IceBurk is offline  
post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 9:55 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Burk
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 53
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

I should add that the battery is new as of last year. I check the battery and it is fully charged.
IceBurk is offline  
post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 9:57 AM
Senior Tech Team
Eric
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Poteau, Ok
Posts: 4,160
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceBurk View Post
I appreciate the quick response. Thanks for the information.
Do you have any suggestions as for where I should troubleshoot next?
Intermittent starting issues are a pain in the a__. First check your battery voltage to make sure you have 12.7v. Make sure timing is not overly advanced. Then I would start by cleaning the battery cable lugs and terminals, then inspect, clean, and make sure all the other positive power distribution points are the same. Repair any frayed or greenish looking wire terminal ends. Make sure all starter connections are clean and tight.

If all of the above checks good, next time it does not crank, whack the starter with a BFH while someone holds the ign key in the start position. If it starts rebuild or replace the starter.

Your just jealous because you can't hear the voices!

1967 Olds Cutlass 468 BBC/T400
1963 Plymouth Fury 440/Torqueflite
2007 Ford Mustang GT (momma's car)
oldcutlass is offline  
post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 10:03 AM
Senior Tech Team
Vince
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Los Lunas, NM
Posts: 8,319
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

cables can have hidden corrosion under the covering
we are looking for a voltage drop between the battery voltage of about 12.6 volts DC
compared to voltage at the starter on solenoid stud batt. cable is connected to...
the amount of voltage drop can indicate how good or bad the [good looking cable is].

68-Malibu 427bbc/t4oo/3.73-12bolt/pro charger f1-r
VinceS427bb is offline  
post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Burk
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 53
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

Thank you Eric and Vince,
In the effort of fixing this issue I have already had the starter rebuilt and a new solenoid installed. Rebuild shop is a good one and they tested after the rebuild.
I installed the starter myself. I cleaned things up at the time but I probably should take another look. After doing these things the problem remained.
I think my next steps will be these. Replace the bolt that attaches the negative battery cable to the engine block. It is a black oxide bolt that is old and does have some corrosion on it. I will not replace it with another black oxide bolt.
I will check for voltage drop to the solenoid positive connection. Wish I had a lift. Also, I may as well buy a new positive battery cable and install that.
Thanks guys!
IceBurk is offline  
post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 10:37 AM
Moderator
Levon
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Priddis, Ab. Canada
Posts: 9,268
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

Make sure al of the starter bolts an starter wiring nuts are tight. Disconnect the cables from the battery when doing the starter wiring.

Levon Hovagimian
Team Chevelle #279
2015 Camaro ZL1 Summit White (Bone Stock)
70 Chevelle SS 454 LS5 4 speed. SOLD
Current Engine VortecPro 460 (513 HP) Original is resting
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1966 427 Corvette SOLD
1973 Camaro IHRA Hot Rod (LS-6 Auto)11.00 @121 (Chased a 10.99 or better) SOLD

Priddis Greens, Ab. Canada


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
LevonH is offline  
post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Burk
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 53
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

Does anyone happen to have a 1972 solenoid wiring diagram they could send me?
Just to make sure I have things correct.
IceBurk is offline  
post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Burk
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 53
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

I should state that years back this engine was converted to HEI.
IceBurk is offline  
post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 11:05 AM
Gold Member
Gene
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 14,135
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

Dont have a diagram, but it ought be only three wires, BAT, "R" and "S", one being the power to the solenoid(S) and one is straight 12V to ignition to fire it. (R)

That block ground is key. My car wouldnt start the other day, completly dead. It was that bolt in the head being a freckle loose.

EDIT, if you converted to HEI then you dont have a resistor wire in the ignition harness and do not use that R terminal to send 12V hot to the ignition anymore. Thats for "resistance wire" cars that need 12V to fire. So you have the BAT and one terminal from the ignition switch to the solenoid is all.

Gene
ACES 3112/Team Chevelle Gold #62
Be big, be a 'builder'!
427L88 is offline  
post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 1:34 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Burk
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 53
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

Here is a picture of the old solenoid before I replaced it. I wanted to make sure I got the wires in the right spot.
It looks like the brown wire is on terminal "R", the positive batter cable is where it should be but the pic hides the wire on terminal "S".
It has been this way for 25 years. I wonder now as mentioned that when converted to HEI the wire on terminal "R" is no longer needed.
As you can see it is there, what kind of problem will that cause?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	starter1.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	107.5 KB
ID:	569884  
IceBurk is offline  
post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 18, 2:19 PM
Gold Member
Gene
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 14,135
Re: Electrical Ground Issue - Starter

none, its likely tucked into the harness somewhere, but I'd hate to guess looking at a keyboard.

Gene
ACES 3112/Team Chevelle Gold #62
Be big, be a 'builder'!
427L88 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome