Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool! - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 75 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 14, 2:17 PM Thread Starter
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Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool!

MODERATOR,CAN YOU PLEASE MAKE THIS A STICKY FOR THE SPRING & SUMMER SEASONS TO HELP GUYS WITH COOLING USSUES.

Well spring is here and i am already seeing motors running hot issues so to help people out that may be setting up a new cooling system or that may currently have a motor running hot issues i thought i'd list the things i rec installing/doing along with the tweaks/adjustements i rec doing to gm's stock clutch fan setup that consistantly /reliably cools just about old school stock to pretty stout bbc/sbc street perf motor just fine at approx 180 deg F (+ - 5 deg) in 85-90+ deg HHH temps.

This i found from my 42+yrs 1st hand experience testing & working with GM's clutch fan cooling system that in every case significantly reduced engine temp by 20-25 deg on avg and even a few more deg (30+ deg) in some cases over what gms clutch fan setup does in stock configuration from the factory when ALL OF MY REC UPGRADES & TWEAKS ARE PROPELY APPLIED AT THE SAME TIME WORKING TOGETHER AS A TEAM EFFORT to gm's already decent clutch fan cooling setup when in stock configuration.

GMs clutch fan setup with my rec upgrades and tweaks has proven to be a rock solid reliable cooling system seup that will perf well for many many yrs down the road.

This is also a very good alt to running non stock aftermarket rad with no stock aftermarket elec fans in apps dealing with wiring in ralys and higher output alt etc where theres room to run gm's clutch fan cooling system setup using my rec upgrades & tweaks that sig increase its cooling efficiency significantly reducing engine temps over stock gm clutch fan setup.

My rec upgrades/tweaks to gms stock clutch fan setup has also proven time after time over the past few yrs here in team chevelle to outperformed many aftermarket elec fan setups (dual & single) by 20-25 deg on avg (few by 30-40 deg) talking in head temps.

And my rec setup fixed many peopls cooling woes when they were running aftermarket elec fans being afraid to drive in traffic on hot days where after they removed the elec fans & did/installed my rec setup & tweaks to a stock gm clutch fan setup reduced thier engine temps 20-25 deg on avg and a few by 30-40 deg WITH MOST CASES RETIANING THE CURRENT RAIDIATOR THAY HAD AT THE TIME making them very happy campers greatly reducing in head engine temps with my rec setup without having to go for a new radiator in the process.

And thats esp an issue when aftermarket elec fans are used on old school hd rads or AL rad that have thicker rad cores that many elec fan setups dont do as well with when it to comes to moving max air for max cooling thru a thicker/more dense hd rad cooling core in hotter summer temps.

So consider going this route(my rec upgraded & tweaked gm clutch fan setup) if your undecided on which way to go with a cooling system as long as theres ample room to go with it in your app or if your currently having cooling issues in general with your car/motor.

BTW,Dewitts is one of the few suppliers of hi perf al rads and hi perf dual elec fans that does get the job done if your setup wont allow use of GM's cluch fan setup or if you prefer the llok of going that route.

I HOPE MY REC UPGRADED/TWEAKED GM CLUTCH FAN SETUP AND COOLING INFO HERE IN GENERAL HELPS REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF GUYS IN TEAM CHEVELLE HAVING COOLING ISSUES WITH THIER CHEVELLES RUNNIG OLD SCHOOL BBC/SBC STREET PERF MOTORS.

OK ,HERE IT IS!

1) MY REC UPGRADES TO GM'S STOCK CLUTCH FAN COOLING SYSTEM THAT SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASE ITS COOLING EFFICIENCY ARE AS FOLLOWS:

NOTE-1:THIS ASSUMES YOU ALREADY HAVE GM'S MATCHED STOCK 772 OR = CLUTCH FAN AND SHROUD SETUP USED ON 69-72 SBC/BBC CHEVELLES WITH AC OR HD COOLING.

THIS ALSO ASSUMES YOUR W-PUMP IS IN PROPER WORKING COND ,MOTOR HAS STOCK SIZE CARNK & W-PUMP PULLEYS TO ENSURE PROPER GM SPEC FAN & W-PUMP RPM IS OBTAINED FOR PROPER COOLING,RAD IS IN GOOD COND ,COOLANT PASSAGES IN MOTOR,HEADS & INTAKE ARE CLAEN AND OR ARE NOT LEAKING ,NO HEAD GASKET ISSUES OR ISSUE WITH RAIDOATOR EXIST TOO REDUCING COOLING EFFICNECY ALONG WITH MOTOR BEING PROPERLY TUNED CABR & TIMING WISE TOO.

I SAY THE ABOVE BECAUSE IF THOSE ITEMS/THINGS ARENT IN GOOD WORKING COND AND OR ARENT WORKING UP TO PROPER OPERATION EFFICIENCY/SPEC TO BEGIN WITH ALL THE THINGS I REC CANT/WONT FIX THOSE ISSUES RESULTING IN REDUCED COOLING EFFICICNECY IF THEY ARE NOT WORTKING PROPERLY OR TUNED/ADJ COERRECTLY TO BEGIN WITH.

NOTE-2:MY SAME REC'S WORK TO REDUCE ENGINE TEMP ON OLDER GEN CHEVELLES TOO BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP MIN MIND A DIF CLUTCH FAN,SHROUD,FAN CLUTCH,SHORT W-PUMP ARE USED ON 68 & OLDER GEN CHEVELLES/MOTORS SO KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN BUYING THOSE PARTS TO INSTALL.

NOTE-3:ALL ENGINE TEMPS I STATE BELOW ARE IN HEAD TEMPS AND NOT INTAKE TEMPS THAT GENERALLY SHOW COOLER WHICH IS MORE OFTEN THEN NOT THE ENGINE TEMPS PEOPLE STATE HERE IN T/C THIER MOTORS ARE RUNNING.

SO KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN READING ENGINE TEMPS GUYS THAT THEIR MOTORS ARE RUNNING HERE IN T/C AND TO ASK THE QUESTION ARE THEY INATKE OR IN HEAD TEMPS.

THATS SO YOU ARE COMPARING APPLES TO APPLES AND NOT APPLES TO ORNAGES WHERE FOR EXAMPLE THE APPLES ARE (IN HEAD TEMP) TO ORANGES THAT ARE (INTAKE TEMPS).

THATS IMPORANT TO KEEP IN MIND BECAUSE THE INTAKE TYPICALLY READS 10-15-20 COOLER IN WARMER SPRING/SUMMER OUTSIDE AIR TEMP THEN IN HEAD TEMPS DO AT THE SAME IN THE SAME MOTOR RUNNING IN SAME ROAD/TRAFFIC COND IN CAME OUTSIDE AIRTEMP COND TOO.)PHEW!!!/LOL!!!!

* IF YOU CAR HAS A TIRED/OLD 4 ROW RAD OR EVEN A 2 ROW OR 3 ROW RAD FOR MAX COOLING I REC INSTALLING A NEW HD COOLING 4 ROW STD TYPE RADIATOR OR = HI QUALITY DEWITT AL RAD.

NOTE: A NEW GOOD QUALITY 3 ROW RAD USED ALONG WITH ALL MY OTHER REC UPGRADES & TWEAKS SHOULD WORK OK WITH A PROPERLY TUNED AND TIMED (ESP BASE TIMING) STOCK LOW PERF SBC OR STOCK LOW PERF BBC MOTOR VS RUNNING A HD COOLING 4 ROW RAD.

BUT KEEP MIN MIND ENGINE TEMP ON A REAL HOT 85-90 DEG OUTSIDE TEMP TYPE DAY MAY BE 10+ DEG HOTTER WITH 3 ROW VS HD COOLING 4 ROW RAD AND THAT ENGINE TEMP MAY GO UP A BIT FASTER WHEN SITTING IN TRAFFIC TOO.

* REPLACE STOCK STD DUTY THERMAL FAN CLUTCH WITH A HAYDEN HD THERMAL 2747 FAN CLUTCH WHICH INCREASES COOLING OVER WHAT THE STOCK STD DUTY FAN CLUTCH PROVIDES.

* REPLACE STOCK 190-195 DEG STAT (EVEN A 180 STAT) WITH AUTOZONES HI FLOW 15356 STAT FOR MAX COOLING IN WARMER SUMMER TEMP.

THIS TOUGH STAINLESS STEEL HI FLOW STAT PROVIDES INCREASED COOLANT FLOW FOR BETTER COOLING ESP WHEN USED WITH A HI FLOW W-PUMP WHICH I FOUND FROM TESTING MULT TEMP STD AND HI FLOW STATS THAT AUTOZONE'S 15356 PERF'S BEST WITH MY REC CLUTCH FAN COOLING SYSTEM SETUP TO MAINTAIN APPROX 180 DEG F + - 5 OR SO IN WARMER SUMMER TEMPS.

NOTE: IN COOLER OFF SEASON USE I REC AUTOZONES 15358 HI FLOW STAT TO MAINTAIN PROPER ENGINE & OIL TEMP AND IN WARMER SUMMER TEMPS SWAP BACK TO AUTOZONES 15356 WHERE MAX COOLING.

* NOT REQUIRED BUT I HIGHLY REC INSTALLING A LONG HI FLOW W-PUMP FOR MAX COOLANT FLOW & REDUCTION OF HOT STEAM POCKETS IN BLOCK CAUSED BY SOME STD PERF LVL PUMPS ON THE MAREKT TODAY RUNNING LOW QUALITY LOW PERF STAMPED STEEL IMPLERER & IMPROPER BACKPLATE SPACING.

2) MY REC TWEAKS TO GMS STOCK CLUTCH FAN COOLING SYSTEM THAT SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASE ITS COOLING EFFICIENCY ARE AS FOLLOWS:

* SEAL ALL AIRGAP BETWEEN SHROUD AND RAD CORE USING ADHEASIVE BACKED BLK COLOR FOAM INSULATION USED IN HEATING/COOLING APPS.

THIS INCREASES THE AMOUNT OF COOL AIR SUCKED THRU RAD CORE FOR MAX COOLING VS LEAVING STOCK FACTORY AIRGAP BETWEEN RAD CORE AND SHROUD WHERE FAN SUCKS X-AMOUNT OF AIR THRU AIRGAP AND NOT RAD CORE REDUCING COOLING EFFICIENCY.

* RUN A 30% ANT FRZ/70% DISTILLED WATER COOLANT MIX. THIS NOT ONLY PROVIDES MORE HEAT TRANSFER THEN A STD 50/50 COOLANT MIX THE DISTILLED WATER REDUCES CORROSSION IN COOLING SYSTEM TOO DUE TO LESS MINERALS IN THE WATER.

NOTE: KEEP IN MIND THIS COOLANT RATIO MAY NOT COVER AREAS WHERE OUTSIDE AIRTEMP IS VERY LOW IN OFF SEASON/WINTER SO KEEP THAT IN MIND.

* WHEN RUNNING PERF CAM ENSURE BASE & TOTAL ARE NOT OVERLY RETARDED WHICH CAUSES INCREASED ENGINE TEMP ESP ATD IDLE AND LOWER ENGINE SPEED BEFORE TOTAL TIMING IS FULLY IN.

I REC APPROX 18 DEG BASE /36-38 DEG TOTAL IN BY 2600 RPM OR SO AS A GOOD PLACE TO START.

USE PREM 93 FUEL AND CHK LISTEN/CHK FOR DETONATION & ADJ ACCORDINGLY IF DETONATION IS HEARD IN WHICH CASE YOU CAN EITHER RUN REAL LEAD BOOSTER TO INC OCTAIN TO STOP DETONATION TO RETAIN MAX POWER/PERF OR RETARTD TIMING TO STOP DETONATION REDUCING POWER AND INCREASING ENGINE TEMP ESP IN TRAFFIC AT IDLE ON A HOT SUMMER DAY.

* IF CAM BEING RUN PROVIDES ENOUGH VAC AT IDLE TO KEEP A VAC ADV FULLY DEPLOYED AT IDLE TO ENSURE IDLE IS STABLE SET IT UP/LIMIT IT USING CRANES VAC ADV LIMITER PLATE FOR A MAX OF 10-12 DEG ,HOOK IT TO FULL INT VAC ALL THE TIME FOR MAX BENEFIT ESP WHEN AT IDLE IN TRAFFIC ON A HOT DAY.

IF IDLE VAC IS TOO LOW TO PROVIDE STABLE IDLE WITH VAC ADV YOU CAN STILL GE SOME BENEFIT FROM RUNNING ON PROTRED VAC OFF CARB WHEN THROTTLE POSTION IS ABOVE/OFF IDLE.

MOST PERF CAMS CAN BENEFITE FROM THE ADDITIIONAL TIMING THE VAC ADV PROVIDES FOR BETTER DRIVEABILITY ON THE STREET ,COOLER RUNING MOTOR AND MORE MPG TOO.

USE PREM 93 FUEL AND CHK LISTEN/CHK FOR DETONATION & ADJ ACCORDINGLY IF DETONATION IS HEARD IN WHICH CASE YOU CAN EITHER RUN REAL LEAD BOOSTER TO INC OCTAIN TO STOP DETONATION TO RETAIN MAX POWER/PERF OR RETARTD TO TIMING TO STOP DETONATION REDUCING POWER AND POSS INCREASING ENGINE TEMP ESP AT IDLE IN TRAFFIC ON A HOT SUMMER DAY.

* IF RUNNING MAN TRANS OR LOOSE ENOUGH CONVERTER IN HOT SUMMER WEATHER RUN A SLIGHTLY HIGHER IDLE RPM AT APPROX 950-1K RPM TO INCREASE FAN SPEED AT IDLE IN TRAFFIC WHICH INCREASES AMOUNT OF COOLER AIR BEING PASSED THRU RAD CORE THUS INCREASING COOLING AT IDLE.

BUT KEEP IN IN MIND ITS NOT JUST 1 THING I REC THATS GOING TO MAKE FOR THE GREAT COOLING I STATE I GET FROM MY REC UPGRADES OR TWEAKS.

ITS TOGETHER WORKING AS A TEAM WHERE ALL MY REC UPGRADES/TWEAKS COLLECTIVELY WORK TOGETHER TO PROVIDE THE ADDITONAL COOLING OVER GM'S STOCK CLUTCH FAN COOLING SYSTEM SETUP THAT KEEPS OUR OLD SCHOOL STREET PERF BBC/SBC MOTORS IN OUR CHEVELLS AT AN IN HEAD TEMP OF APPROX 180 DEG f (+ - 5 DEG) ON AVG IN 85-90 DEG OUTSIDE TEMP WITH NON AC APP AT CRUISE & FEW DEG HOTTER IN TRAFFIC.

NOTE: (FOR AC APPS /ESP BBC ADD 15-20 DEG ON AVG /SOMETIMES 20-25 DEG when in traffic on a HOT 85-90+ DEG F DAY maxing out at an in head temp of approx 200-205 deg when sitting in traffic with AC on for a while and cruise temp of approx 190-195 max with AC on talking in head temp & not itake tempo that will read 15-20 deg or so less in hotter outside temp)

Scott
satch1967 and Chevymec like this.

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)

Last edited by SWHEATON; Apr 23rd, 14 at 12:33 AM.
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post #2 of 75 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 14, 2:41 PM
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Re: Cooling 101/a reliable system that cools bbc/sbc street perf motor

thanks alot,
Do you know if there is a clutch fan unit I can buy to put on my stock 66 SS 325 hp, with plastic shroud.?
Allan
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post #3 of 75 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 14, 3:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cooling 101/a reliable system that cools bbc/sbc street perf motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by al1950 View Post
thanks alot,
Do you know if there is a clutch fan unit I can buy to put on my stock 66 SS 325 hp, with plastic shroud.?
Allan
==========

YES,GO TO SUMMIT OR ROCK AUTO AND ENTER YOUR YR CAR AND MOTOR WITH OPTIONAL AC OR HD COOLING APP AND THEN LOOK FOR AC /FAN CLUTCH APP WHERE IT WILL SHOW PROPER FAN CLUTCH FOR YOU CAR.

DONT GO FOR THE CHEAP NON THERMAL FAN CLUTCH,THATS NG IMHO

GO WITH HAYDENS THERMAL FAN CLUTCH THEY LIST FOR YOUR APP WITH AC OR HD COOLING OPTION WHICH MUST BE USED ALONG WITH THE STOCK CLUTCH FAN & SHROUD FOR YTOUR CAR/MOTOR WITH AC OR HD COOLING TOO.

Make sure you also do all the other things i rec to keep your engine temp down where it belongs/180 + - 5 deg in hot weather because its collectively working together as a team effort that gets the job the done wieh talking good cooling.

Good luck,

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)

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post #4 of 75 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 14, 6:02 PM
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Re: Cooling 101/a reliable system that cools bbc/sbc street perf motor

thanks

I looked at the autozone tstat 15356
it shows t be 160 degree
are you saying to change to this hi flow and 160 instead of my stock t stat of 180 degree?
Allan
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post #5 of 75 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 14, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Cooling 101/a reliable system that cools bbc/sbc street perf motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by al1950 View Post
thanks

I looked at the autozone tstat 15356
it shows t be 160 degree
are you saying to change to this hi flow and 160 instead of my stock t stat of 180 degree?
Allan
=============

Yes,in warmer summer temp that stat will keep in head engine temp in a bbc at approx 180 deg+ - 5 deg when used in combo with my rec upgraded & tweaked gm clutch fan setup.

I found from testing that the autozone 15356 high flow 160 stat consistantly keeps stabilized engine temp approx 10-12 deg deg lower on avg then the autozone 15358/180 hi flow stat does in warmer summer temps.

But if you are palnning to often drive the car in very cold off season temps then you should swap the out the 15356/160 hi flow stat for the 15358/180 hi flow stat to ensure motor runs at proper temp.

For max cooling on hot summer days you can simply reinstall 13356/160 stat that as i stated above found thru testing lowers overall stabilized engine temp 10-12 deg vs same type hi flow 180 stat in hotter summertime cond.

But if your not going to drive the car much if at all in off season then theres no need to swap out the 15356/160 hi flow stat for the hotter 15358/180 hi flow stat.

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)

Last edited by SWHEATON; Apr 23rd, 14 at 12:34 AM.
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post #6 of 75 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 14, 8:37 AM
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

will the hayden fan clutch you recommend handle 7200 rpm at the strip?. I have a 4 row gm radiator, stock water pump that is for a,1980 chevy 1 ton big block,(cause that's where all my BB acc brackets came from) and a flex fan, running a 180* stat and temp sender in intake, temp runs 190-195 in 80*-115* weather, even at the end of a 1/4 mile pass it might be 200, and that's going into the burn out box at 190*, thought about going to a 160* stat and see what thappens, I also like the clutch fan set up you describe.
oh yeah and I am going to move the manual temp gauge sender to the head when time alows

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post #7 of 75 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 14, 2:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmachd View Post
will the hayden fan clutch you recommend handle 7200 rpm at the strip?. I have a 4 row gm radiator, stock water pump that is for a,1980 chevy 1 ton big block,(cause that's where all my BB acc brackets came from) and a flex fan, running a 180* stat and temp sender in intake, temp runs 190-195 in 80*-115* weather, even at the end of a 1/4 mile pass it might be 200, and that's going into the burn out box at 190*, thought about going to a 160* stat and see what thappens, I also like the clutch fan set up you describe.
oh yeah and I am going to move the manual temp gauge sender to the head when time alows
=================

Mac,check your email because i sent you a file with some of the 1st hand testimony of team chevelle members that bit the bullet & went with my rec setup and how it perf vs thier current setups (many elec fans) that had thier motors running much hotter/20-25deg F hotter on avg and in some cases 30-40 deg hotter then my rec upgraded & tweaked clutch fan setup did on avg .

And thats for apps that were stock to farily stout bbc or sbc street perf motors,my rec cooling system setup coverd all of them!

On you motors current running temp, in warmer outside temps theres a 10-15 deg delta in temp on avg (sometimes 20 deg with cast iron heads & stock ex manifolds) between intake and head temp with the head reading 10-15+ deg higher .

So with that said your motors intake temp of 195 = GM's prefered in head monitoing of engine temp in many of those gens motors of 210-215+ which isnt very good IMHO.

And your end of run 200 deg is 215-220 deg in head temp,NG IMHO.

And the head temp gives a much better indication of what going on temp wise in the head,combustion chambers & main coolant passage in the block close to the head etc vs getting temp from intake thats on top of the motor much farther away from the comb chambers ,heads ,main coolant passage in block etc.

And keep in mind that getting an old school bbc or sbc perf to consistantly run an in head temp of 180 deg + - 5 deg in hotter outside temp vs where your motors = head temp of 210-220 at times cam make a diff in perf/power.

Getting your motor running 25-30+ deg cooler with my setup will generat more power/trq,oil will be cooler resulting in higher oil pressuer (esp at idle) with a quieter hyd valvetrain,stopped fuel boilover from carb post hot shutdown, and in some cases has been reported that the passenger cabin temp was cooler too.

And the motor running 25-30 deg cooler will be less prone to detonation so you could maybe fun more timing for better perf without detonation for better strip perf/times too.

But with your setup/4 row gm hd cooling rad if you remove the 180 stat & run this autozone hi flow stat (15356) along with GM's 7 blade 772 clutch fan (& proper matching fan shroud) with haydens HD 2747 thermal fan clutch just doing that will reduce temp quite a bit. (also seal all airgaps between rad core and shroud with adheasive backed foam insulation used for heating cooling apps.

I rec sealing shroud to rad core airgaps because it forces all cool air sucked by the clutch fan to actuaally be moved thru the rad core for max cooling vs sucking x-amount of hot air from engine compartment thru the airgap between rad core and shroud which doesnt help cooling at all which in reality reduces overall cooling efficiency of the cooling system without the rad core to fan shroud airgap sealed.

And note, i found from tesing in same motor in same cond on same da that the autozone hi flow 15356/160 stat i rec consistantly kept the overall stabilized engine temp 10-12deg cooler on avg then autozones hi flow 15358/180 stat did in all case/cars i did the test on over the yrs no matter sbc or bbc.

That testing was done in hot summer 85-90+ deg outside airtemps with my rec upgraded tweaked clutch fan cooling setup with my rec 15356 autozone hi flow stat keeps in head temps of 180 deg + - 5 deg at cruise and 180-185 deg in moderate stop go traffic and 185-190ish or so in heavier traffic .

But if you plan to drive the car a lot in off season cooler temps the motor may run too cool with the 15356 stat in which case i'd swap to the 15358/180 autozone hi flow stat to ensure motor/oil run warm enough in off season use.

And in cars with man trans or with loose enough converter i increase idle speed to 1k rpm to increase coolant flow & fan speed too at idle for better cooling at idle esp on hot days.

Moving on to the fan clutch vs 7200rpm at the strip,1st of all if the motor isnt pretty hot at the time the fan clutch wont be lock for max cooling and will be most freewheeling unlocked and turning max of maybe 1/3 of engine rpm at best.

But if the motor is hot enough for fan clutch to be locked up (talking the hd 2747 fan clutch i rec) it still doesnt lock up fully and is only turning approx 75%-80% of what the W-pump pulley is turning at the same time so the clutch fan should not be turning the 7200rpm the motor is at the same time.

Also,keep in mind gm mfg'd hi perf hi rpm sbc/bbc motors with solid cams with a few having a 6,500rpm redline.

I know some people that have used this setup with NP to 7k rpm but keep in mind if your using a 40yr old GM clutch fan it could have stress cracks you dont see which could lead to it throwing a fan blade esp when on it hard which i have seen happen a few times over the yrs with std non clutched mech cooling fans and clutched cooling fans too.

I have also seen where a few much newer flex fans chcked a blade too.

So thats about all i can tell you on that one and its up to you if you want to run it ro not.

BTW,if you decide to fully follow and install my rec cooling system setup on your car please post back here with motor temps at cruise and in traffic before and then after you install my rec setup so people can see pre /post cooling system perf.

Please send that same info to me in a PM to ensure i see it so i can place it in the t/c cooling info i have on file too.

Good luck.

scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)

Last edited by SWHEATON; Apr 26th, 14 at 2:47 PM.
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post #8 of 75 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 14, 5:28 PM
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Make it sticky in the trashbag. Some is true but the op isnt.
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post #9 of 75 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 14, 11:11 PM
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Hello Scott!

Sorry for lurking-- I don't mean to hijack this post. I am tackling cooling before I even take a chance. I haven't yet put my 489 in yet and I've been reading your posts about cooling and how everything needs to work in unison. I don't want to just plop a new motor in the car and hope it all works. From springs to frame reinforcement to timing to --- I want to make sure it all works together.

I had purchased a Hayden 2797 severe duty fan clutch. After reading your posts I didn't even take it out of the box. I just got home with the HD 2747 and I will run it instead. I get what you're saying-- although the severe duty will blow ALOT of air, it was engineered for lower-rpm truck duty.

I do have a question I hope you can help with though. I have a 7-blade 3991431 fan that fits perfectly. Do you happen to know if this fan is comparable to--or even the same as the 772 fan you recommend?

Many thanks to you and to all.


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post #10 of 75 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 14, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by LS6iWish View Post
Hello Scott!

Sorry for lurking-- I don't mean to hijack this post. I am tackling cooling before I even take a chance. I haven't yet put my 489 in yet and I've been reading your posts about cooling and how everything needs to work in unison. I don't want to just plop a new motor in the car and hope it all works. From springs to frame reinforcement to timing to --- I want to make sure it all works together.

I had purchased a Hayden 2797 severe duty fan clutch. After reading your posts I didn't even take it out of the box. I just got home with the HD 2747 and I will run it instead. I get what you're saying-- although the severe duty will blow ALOT of air, it was engineered for lower-rpm truck duty.

I do have a question I hope you can help with though. I have a 7-blade 3991431 fan that fits perfectly. Do you happen to know if this fan is comparable to--or even the same as the 772 fan you recommend?

Many thanks to you and to all.


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=================================

Well all i can say is try to find a pic of the gm 772 fan on ebay to compair to the 7-blade 3991431 to see if they are approx the same.

But i have not used thsat fan blade with my rec setup so dont know how well it would work with my rec setup.

Use what i rec and you will be good to go for sure.

scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)
SWHEATON is offline  
post #11 of 75 (permalink) Old May 1st, 14, 4:34 AM
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

You know the self claimed cooling expert didnt even know that there is no such thing as a 3 or 4 core radiator in a chevelle from the begining, it only took him about 35 yers to realise that its called 2 row, 3 row or 4 row. Can he maybe missed something more?

Just a few examples maybe he will learn some more? I think I even saw a post in wich Don(Alumitech) teached him the different.

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165222

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194100

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293317
Chevelle 1969 is offline  
post #12 of 75 (permalink) Old May 1st, 14, 12:36 PM
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Bob
 
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

I have a 1970 Vell Sta. Wgn. 468 with a 700R in my driver. The cooling system is 100% Vintage 1970, With a old copper 4 row Rad.
I run a 160 stat in the wagon. On hot days with the factory (converted to 134) A/C is engaged. In traffic temps hit 205-210.
On the I-State NO-A/C = 180-185..... With A/C= 195 (mech. gauge)
My one owner LS-5/ M-22 has A/C -R-12 NO heating issues for 44 years.
SOOOooooooo when I built my driver with a 468 and a 700 I decided, The Chevy guys 44 years ago had a pretty good idea how to cool an LS-5/6.
My driver has been all ove many states, Fla. Mich, Canada, Jersey, Tenn.
So far no heating issues and it has 8 years of road time and 40.000 miles.
The only cooling piece that is not 1970 vintage is the clutch that is attached to the 772 fan blade. The clutch is a mid eightys 454 Suburban clutch from the Chevy store, And YES the 772 blade fits the late eightys fan clutch like it was designed for it.
Bob


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1970 SS LS-5/M-22 El Camino- Org. Owner-AACA 2016-Senior Grand National Winner---MCACN-GOLD-2013
1970 ( FRAUD) SS 468 Station Wagon - Driver.
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post #13 of 75 (permalink) Old May 13th, 14, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
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Location: N.Y.
Posts: 11,306
Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevelle 1969 View Post
You know the self claimed cooling expert didnt even know that there is no such thing as a 3 or 4 core radiator in a chevelle from the begining, it only took him about 35 yers to realise that its called 2 row, 3 row or 4 row. Can he maybe missed something more?

Just a few examples maybe he will learn some more? I think I even saw a post in wich Don(Alumitech) teached him the different.

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165222

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194100

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293317
===============================

Well 1st off if " your not reffering to me " then disregard this.

But if you are reffering to me then here goes.

I have actually been at it longer like 43-44+ yrs at this point and guess what, i actually spend my time here helping people unlike you trying to put people down.

And since it looks as though you tried hard to come up with something negative to say about me withpout even knowing me if thats the worst you can come up with in my past 12yrs/10,000+ posts here in t/c with the row vs core term thing i consider that pretty darn good/successfull!/LOL!!!

And BTW,just for the record i am fully aware the correct term for a radiator is 2-3-4 row and not 2-3-4 core though at times i may have have used the incorrect " core " term just because i see and read it here so often i just used it at times anyway knowing it didnt hurt or change anything at the time.

Butyou know what, i go by someones intent & results along with facts where possible and the fact is i actually do things here in team chevelle to help people out like with for example these cooling issues i was posting on .

I dont claim to be an expert but compaired to you i may just be an expert but dont know that for a fact but the fact is dont post squat helping others out here in t/c,thst for sure with 93 posts in 5+ yrs but waste time with this row vs core thing.

Unlike you over the past few yrs i have actually helped many t/c members fix cooling issues many with elec fan setups running too hot then having thier motors running 25-30 deg cooler on avg (few 35-40 deg cooler) after dumping the elec fans (by my Rec) and then installing my rec upgrades & tweaks to the clutch fan setup along with also setting up base/total timing and vac adv (where applicable) to my rec specs too with great results each time when going from elec cooling fans having motors in 210-230 deg range to my rec setup in 180 deg range retianing the same radiator.

I go by results and facts and the fact is over the past few yrs i got at least 25-30 guys cars /motors (in t/c and some locally at home too) that had motors that were running 210-220-225-230 deg range to consitantly running 180 deg + - few deg in 85-90 deg outside temp while retaining the same radiator too.

And thats not counting the amount of people that may have read my cooling posts or saw the results i posted from tream chevelle members in thier own words about how good my rec cooling setup and timing rec worked out that also got thier motors running nice & cool by following my rec too.

And i have also made good contribution in time & effort researching & testing motor oil for the Ft crowd here in t/c some yrs back.

I did that to help get them on board with issues in todays oils vs specific oil requirement for perf FT cam apps in our old school sbc/bbc motors that had an increased # of guys loosing FT cams 6-8 yrs ago vs today.

I also put together a list of does & donts for Ft cam installs to help guys reduce thier chance of having a FT cam failure too.

Do guys still loose a ft cam here & there,yes,but are they not loosing near as many FT cams as we were seeing going bad some yrs back,thats for sure.

And lastly i have tons of posts that actually helped guys fix runability issues with thier motors when it comes to helping them better dial in timing/vac adv/carbs when thier motors were running poorly with low power,weak throttle responce, fuel fouling plugs etc that responded well to me rec and had the motors fixed /running up to potential.

So what have you done here in t/c to help others out other then acting like the " SCHMUCK YOU SEEM TO BE " with your above statement that doesnt fix anything or help anybody in any way shape or form?

No matter what people like you think i have nothing to hide or feel bad about here t/c chevelle because it comes from my heart to help out my fellow chevelle owners vs you comming from a some kind of a sad dark place i cant relate too.

You my friend (NOT!/LOL!) seem to be of a certain grwoing crowd of disrespectfull t/c members here that are wise guys that like to shoot thier mouths off but dont have the expertise to help out or simply dont want to be bothered helping out which is what team chevelle used to be all about which unfortunately isnt the case anymore with a certain group of members.

Your 93 posts in 5yrs here in t/c tells the true story of what your about obviously not taking much if any time to help anyone out here in t/c other them maybe yourself.

But i bet my bottom doallr that those few 93 posts you have made in the past 5+ yrs were most likely about you getting info/fixes you needed because if you wanted to help other people out more and or had the expertise to do so you would have had spent a lot more time helping out here in t/c over the past few yrs then only 93 times/posts in 5+ yrs .

Actions speak louder then words and your actions here (93 posts in 5+ yrs) in t/c show the real you that obviously didnt spend much if any time helping others out.

Enough said.

Anyway,Happy motoring!

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)

Last edited by SWHEATON; May 13th, 14 at 11:54 PM.
SWHEATON is offline  
post #14 of 75 (permalink) Old May 14th, 14, 12:20 AM
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Thanks for all of your contributions Scott,you have helped me a ton.Well said by the way
crazy canuck is offline  
post #15 of 75 (permalink) Old May 14th, 14, 1:20 PM
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Jim
 
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Betcha' the stock system without anybody's changes will cool a Chevy engine just fine...provided it is in good condition, and provided all of the ancillary items such as shrouds and other items that affect the airflow into and out of the engine compartment, are present.
JJ'65 is offline  
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