Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool! - Page 4 - Chevelle Tech
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post #46 of 75 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 14, 8:39 PM
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Chris
 
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Ok thanks Scott I called ground up and they told me to get their 7 blade fan for 64-68 with clutch. Sales rep said it was for HD applications

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1967 Chevelle SS 396- 4 Speed

Last edited by PHX396; Jul 14th, 14 at 11:35 PM.
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post #47 of 75 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 14, 8:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLASHED View Post
Also all parts places suggest a different fan clutch for a 350 but if Im reading this right you suggest the 2747 one ,correct ?
===========

No,where did you get the idea i was rec this for a truck here in t/c , i never rec that fan clutch ,clutch fan etc for a truck app though it may in fact fit i never installed it on a truck app so dont know for sure.

If you follow all my rec in theory on your truck inc using what ever thermal fan clutch Hayden rec's for your yr truck & motor with AC assuming you already havre the stock/proper clutch fan,shroud,long waterpump etc that came stock on your truck with sbc and ac you should do just fine.

Use an autozone hi flow hi perf stainless steel 15356 stat & ensure you get timing right like i rec esp when running a non stock non gm aftermarket cam too.

Good luck.

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)
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post #48 of 75 (permalink) Old Aug 16th, 14, 5:47 PM
Ray
 
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Hello Scott,
Here is my scenario to get your feedback on.1966 chevelle 496 crane mild roller cam,265 afr heads,air gap intake,850 holley,MSD ign w/ mech advance,aprox 580 hp.Griffin alum rad,3 in thick core 2 row of1.25 tubes direct fit downflow,Vintage Air Front runner drive set up, Drale 14 in electric fan,2100 cfm and one 8 in on right side of rad about 700 cfm where a/c comp and tensioner limit space.There is not enough space with this set up to get enough electric fan to cool.Down the road 55 60 mph 2600-2800 rpm temp is 175-180 [temp guage in intake by t-stat] good so far,low speed or off idle driving temp climbs quickly 190-200 and depending on ambient temp it will continue to go up to where I shut it down about 215.Also forgot to mention it has 160 degree t stat,proper coolant mixture,and its not running lean.It seems like it just wants more air at low speed or idle.Also doesnt have a/c condensor in front of rad at this time.Vintage air no help at all when I first installed frontrunner it didnt have a bypass between intake and water pump,I since installed and helped very little.Whats your thoughts??
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post #49 of 75 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 14, 12:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz66SS View Post
Hello Scott,
Here is my scenario to get your feedback on.1966 chevelle 496 crane mild roller cam,265 afr heads,air gap intake,850 holley,MSD ign w/ mech advance,aprox 580 hp.Griffin alum rad,3 in thick core 2 row of1.25 tubes direct fit downflow,Vintage Air Front runner drive set up, Drale 14 in electric fan,2100 cfm and one 8 in on right side of rad about 700 cfm where a/c comp and tensioner limit space.There is not enough space with this set up to get enough electric fan to cool.Down the road 55 60 mph 2600-2800 rpm temp is 175-180 [temp guage in intake by t-stat] good so far,low speed or off idle driving temp climbs quickly 190-200 and depending on ambient temp it will continue to go up to where I shut it down about 215.Also forgot to mention it has 160 degree t stat,proper coolant mixture,and its not running lean.It seems like it just wants more air at low speed or idle.Also doesnt have a/c condensor in front of rad at this time.Vintage air no help at all when I first installed frontrunner it didnt have a bypass between intake and water pump,I since installed and helped very little.Whats your thoughts??
==============

Man am i pissed!!!!

I spent a lot of time (40-45mins) posting a very detailed responce to your problem with mult ways to go and or things to try and when i hit the submit botton team chevelles system said it had timed out loosing everything i wrote and that i had to sign back in again.

At that moment before i did anything elese i 1st tried htting the back arrow to see if all i had writte/typed was still there but it was all gone.

So i then tried signing back in but it was gone and i remember that happened to me once before and i tried signing back in when it said to do so and lost everything i had written/typed that time too.

So if i get more time this wk i will try again but i am dealing with my dad in the hospital post mult strokes etc so wont have much spare time so cant promis when i can get back to your problem.

Scott
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post #50 of 75 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 14, 1:10 PM
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Scott,
Thanks for your time,sorry it was lost I have had that happen,frustrating.I hope for the best with your Dad.
Thanks Ray
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post #51 of 75 (permalink) Old Sep 12th, 14, 12:15 AM
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Where is the best place to buy the 772 fan?

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post #52 of 75 (permalink) Old Sep 12th, 14, 9:17 AM
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Here's what I have:

http://www.ss396.com/chevelle/ABR-3996.html


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post #53 of 75 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 14, 5:45 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

So I am running a tpi from an '89 Camaro in my '67 El Camino. My friend built the car 15 years ago. It gets hot at idle when the ambient temp is high. It has alum heads (AFR) and alum radiator. It has a fabricated shroud and a flex fan. If I raise the idle to about 1000 rpm it cools right down. I am thinking I need a better shroud, a stock type fan with clutch and the 160 t-stat. I have several 772 fans laying around. So a Hayden 2747 HD clutch is recommended? Thanks for your efforts Scott. Much appreciated.

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Last edited by dbasdan; Sep 24th, 14 at 6:06 PM.
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post #54 of 75 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 14, 2:02 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbasdan View Post
So I am running a tpi from an '89 Camaro in my '67 El Camino. My friend built the car 15 years ago. It gets hot at idle when the ambient temp is high. It has alum heads (AFR) and alum radiator. It has a fabricated shroud and a flex fan. If I raise the idle to about 1000 rpm it cools right down. I am thinking I need a better shroud, a stock type fan with clutch and the 160 t-stat. I have several 772 fans laying around. So a Hayden 2747 HD clutch is recommended? Thanks for your efforts Scott. Much appreciated.
==================================

Well when you =inc idle speed it inc fan speed for more air thru rad core while also increasing coolant flow thru rad too which is why at times when i hit a tough cooling issue i also rec running a higher 950-1k rpm idle speed if possible for better cooling at idle if the setup can handle a higher idle esp when talking auto trans.

But it would not hurt to try whats likely the better clutch fan being the 772 gm 7 blade clutch fan with whats also likely a better performing fan clutch being the the HD hayden thermal fan clutch and great performing autozone 15356 hi flow 160 stat too.

Also,if there are any airgaps between the fan shroud and rad core seal all of them using adheasive backed foam insulation used in heating/cooling apps avail at lowes,local Hardware store,etc.

That ensures all air moved by clutch fan is in fact sucked thru the rad core for max cooling.

Hopefully doing all i suggested above will reduce your engine temp some so let us know if thats the case and how much temp is reduced .

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
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post #55 of 75 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 14, 12:21 PM
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

I am ordering the fan clutch today and will pick up the t-stat also. I don't want to raise the idle any further because it bangs hard enough into gear as it is. Great info and suggestions. Thanks.

Dan Anderson
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post #56 of 75 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 14, 1:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbasdan View Post
I am ordering the fan clutch today and will pick up the t-stat also. I don't want to raise the idle any further because it bangs hard enough into gear as it is. Great info and suggestions. Thanks.
==============

Dont forget to also seal any airgap between rad core and fan shroud to ensure all air moved by fan is in fact sucked thru the rad core.

If you dont do that it will definately reduce cooling efficiency,by how much depends on how large the airgap is between rad core and fan shroud.

Use the gm 772 clutch fan you said you have with the hayden 2747 HD thermal fan clutch and 15356 hi flow autozone stat.

Let us know how that works out with your somewhat custom setup with the home made fan shroud your running with an 89 TPI smc in your 67.

scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)
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post #57 of 75 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 15, 9:26 AM
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

Scott has helped me tremendously. I'm 63 and been around racing for the last 45. He may have some opinions that I may not agree with but I have learned from him and I admire his efforts in helping the rest of us. Unless there's a personal issue, I can't imagine why anyone would criticize his contribution to this forum. Thanks Scott!

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post #58 of 75 (permalink) Old Mar 11th, 15, 10:43 AM
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/show...&postcount=398
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post #59 of 75 (permalink) Old Apr 3rd, 15, 10:10 AM
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

42 cat years ago
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/show...highlight=core

Somebody dont know that a rad only has one core? I would love to have one if the 4 core rads mentioned here.
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/show...26&postcount=6

Last edited by Chevelle 1969; Apr 3rd, 15 at 10:32 AM.
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post #60 of 75 (permalink) Old Apr 10th, 15, 7:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cooling 101/setup that keeps old school bbc/sbc motors nice & cool

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Originally Posted by JJ'65 View Post
Betcha' the stock system without anybody's changes will cool a Chevy engine just fine...provided it is in good condition, and provided all of the ancillary items such as shrouds and other items that affect the airflow into and out of the engine compartment, are present.
=============================

I know this is an older post but wanted to address it just the same.

Well gm's clutch fan setup in stock config & stock setup doesnt cool near as well which is why i did all the testing etc to come up with a better modified version of gm's base clutch fan cooling setup & why my rec upgraded clutch fan setup cools better with a lot of 1st hand testimonials for your fellow t/c members in their own words backing up everything i say when they do everything i rec and heres what i do that makes gm's clutch fan setup cool considerably better by 25-30 deg on avg on a hot summer day.

The items below is what i do to chevelles that already have the stock shroud and stock 7 blade 772 type gm clutch fan used for ac/hd cooling apps along with a hd cooling 4 row stock type rad from ground up or a Dewitts hi perf AL rad for given app.

I also include some tuning /timing tips to reduce engine temp too esp when running a non stock non gm type aftermarket perf cam.

* seal the lrg airgap between rad core and shroud ,doing that makes all air moved/sucked by clutch fan actually bpases thru rad core for max cooling vs sucking x-amount of heat underhood air thru the lrg airgap between shroud and rad core that most chevy's had.

* install autozones hi flow 15356/160 stat that is an important parts of the combo i rec that keeps bbc at 180 deg +- few dag all day ong in 90-95 deg outside temp vs GM rec 190-195 stat to make motor & ex gases run hotter to reduce certain ex emissions & not to help it perf better.

The old school sbc/bbc non emmission motors of 40+ yrs ago run better on street at approx 180 deg + - few deg (in head temp) vs 200+ when running the rec 190-195 stat gm rec from mid to late 60's on up.

* install a hd hayden thermal fan clutch that locks up for little more fan rpm which increases cooling vs stock repl std duty thermal fan clutch that doesnt lock up a much resulting in less fan rpm = less air being sucked/moved thru rad core so less cooling.

* have the original w-pump rblt re-using the stock for back in the 60's-early 70's better flowing/pumping cast iron impeller with closed back or a new cast iron hi flow pump from milodon or summit with same type better flowing impeller vs a new std repl pump or rbly pump using a new type inferior pumping cookie cutter ;looking stamped steel impeller with open back relying on very precise backplate to impeller clearance to get decent pumping which unfortuantely i found to not always be the case significantly reducing pumping/flow efficiency of the pump.

* with any kind of non gm aftermarket perf cam you need to run a lot more base timing very mild cam 16-18 deg base timing,hotter cam 18-20 deg base timing.

Note,must set base timing with max of 550-600rpm idle speed to ensure mech adv in dist isnt adding additional timing to base timing setting.

* also,if dist has a vac adv have it limited to 10-12 deg max using crane cams vac adv limiter plate, Try full vac all the time as long as theres enough idle vac to keep/hold vac adv at its fully deployed position for max timing at idle (in gear with auto trans) .

If theres not enough vac at idle to hld vac adv fully deployed all the time it can lead to unstable idle speed and if thats the case move vac adv to ported vac to vac adv is only used when throttle is above idle circut.

an old school non emission sbc/bbc street perf motor can really benefit from a vac adv if at all possible to do so.

* ensure motors getting all the octane it needs too because todays pump is formulated a lot different for latest gen emission motors along with ethenol too which makes you have to 1st of all jet one jet larger /sometimes 2 to get proper AFR due to diff todays formula non leaded pump fuel with 10% ethenol added.

and if the motor could benefit from some additional octane that can make it run cooler when the motor gets the additional octane it needs .

Heres a link to the proper real lead if you want to try & see if your motor responds well to some additional octane.

http://www.wildbillscorvette.com/OctaneSupreme01.htm

Bottom lines is if you do all the above (everything) just as i rec using same mfg's part-s i rec along with my tuning/timing rec your old school non emission sbc/bbc street perf motor will run 180 deg + - few deg all day long in 90-95 deg outside airtemp heat.

Running the old school sbc/bbc motors at 178-180 deg like my rec setup does (vs 200-205+ with gm's stock clutch fan setup using their rec 190-195 deg std flow stat) and the motor running a lower temp reduces it's octane requirement too!

I attached a chart that shows octane requirement taking into acct we are using todays different formula non leaded lower octane pump fuel with 105 ethenol added which i found to be very accurate when talking old school muscle cars motors with higher comp and short cam timing for higher cyl pressure or with mild perf cams still keeping cyl pressure higher.

When you get away with lower octane fuel with 10-11.0 comp old school motor with no detonation is when you have stall converter & more gear like 3.73-4.10 reducing load on motor,,dont use vad adv removing min of 10-12 deg timing from the motor,also many guys dont run enough base timing with perf cams and only set timing for total only which leaves base timing very retarded like approx 8-10 deg on avg too (so between no vac adv and retarded base timing thats a total of approx 18-22 deg timing thats removed from the motor which is huge in aking it not detonate on lower octane pump fuel),maybe even al intake or al heads reducing engine/comb chamber heat making it less likely to detonate too is when pumps fuel isnt an issue.

so hopefully the engine temp vs compression vs octane requirement chart thats taking into consideration toadys diff pump fuel chart cam thru/attached ok for you to chk out.

Scott
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SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)

Last edited by SWHEATON; Apr 10th, 15 at 7:55 PM.
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