Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine. - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 16, 7:58 AM Thread Starter
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Remi
 
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Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

Hey guys !

I wan´t the build to be able to cruise at 55 and get 20mpg+ and have 300hp+ all done at a max of 5500rpm and be able to pull nice @ 1950rpm with non od, or @1 350-1500 with an OD transmission.

Of course funds are not unlimited, so a good bang for the buck is important. That rules out EFI and fancy stuff, keeping it simple.

I`m thinking either a 454 with od trans and super lazy highway rpm or 350 (which I have in parts and will build myself with new heads), or maybe even try the 350 with OD trans.

Over the last 4 weeks I´ve put 3700miles on my 283, pg, 3.07 with 29" tires wagon pulling a caravan.
I would say the trip was trouble free but we really strained that stock 283 with two port carb and points to the max going up the French alps in 95 fahrenheit with the ac on full blast, full weight with trailer, luggage etc and people where 7100lb. Full throttle as soon as we saw a hill.

All in all it was a great trip but engine and trans needs to be gone for something more suited for the task but more important being a nice daily driver for the rest of the year. Doesn´t have to be the perfect towing engine! Even a switch to a three speed would help the little 283 out a lot.


Mileage is a huge conscern as this is my daily driver, on the trip we where getting between 17 to 12mpg, averaging around 13-14mpg going 65mph. 55mph yielded a huge improvement in the mpg dept but was very boring... Best mpg without trailer is 20mpg.

Sorry for the lenghty post, but we´ve decided a new drivetrain is in order. Keep in mind this is also a daily driver and the car is used around town and alot of highway driving.

Wan´t to keep this car old school so ls motors is a no go, and Vortec´s could maybe work but would rather put some alu heads on the 350 I have laying around, and if I could use the 4L80E I have on laying on the floor taking up space that would be great too. A friend have a working 454 I could buy for around 1200 bucks, and give a small freshen up too.

Let´s hear some ideas before I share mine please

65 Chevelle, ZZ502 with 11,2:1cr and 242/252 110 cam.
Th400. 3,73. 5200stall.
Best 1/8: 7,058 Best 1/4: 11,17 Best mph: 118,6 Best 60: 1,56
13.6mpg

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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 16, 8:29 AM
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

I would do the 350. What are the heads you have lying around? If they aren't a small port, high velocity head they might not be worth using. It's a basic build, go for mid range torque, use a hydraulic roller, dual plain manifold, low stall speed converter.

You have a clearly defined goal, don't let yourself get sidetracked.

Steve R
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 16, 8:39 AM Thread Starter
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Remi
 
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

The heads are old 882´s, I`m not very tempted to use them. Maybe also rather spend money on alu heads instead of HR cam. I think great heads with ok cam is a better option than poor heads and low compression but a great valvetrain ?
You´re right on point, trying my best not to go overboard with this build

65 Chevelle, ZZ502 with 11,2:1cr and 242/252 110 cam.
Th400. 3,73. 5200stall.
Best 1/8: 7,058 Best 1/4: 11,17 Best mph: 118,6 Best 60: 1,56
13.6mpg

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 16, 9:02 AM
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

I would build a mild 350 or a small block stroker with modern fuel injection. 20 mpg would be really difficult to get with a big block and normal aspiration. 300 HP is not hard to get from a 350 and the fuel injection can give you the mileage your looking for as well as the gunt at lower rpms.

JMO.
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Auto Gear Super Case with M22 gears
12.11 @108 mph
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 16, 1:07 PM
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

350, vortec heads, mild cam, a really nicely (professionally tuned) q jet. Or a 750 holley for the weekends and a old school holley 450 economaster carb for the weekday driving. They really work! Th350 for the trans. Jim

Jim

70 chevelle, SS clone 454 4 speed
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 16, 1:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

I agree Dave, efi would be great but I don't know how cost efficient I think it is. But for daily driving it sure would be great.

65 Chevelle, ZZ502 with 11,2:1cr and 242/252 110 cam.
Th400. 3,73. 5200stall.
Best 1/8: 7,058 Best 1/4: 11,17 Best mph: 118,6 Best 60: 1,56
13.6mpg

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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 16, 10:04 PM
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

355, AFR 180-195 heads, lower cost EFI, OD trans. quality long tube headers, quality HR cam and valvetrain, EFI controlled ignition, avoid pushing the CR to be able to run lots of advance without pinging.

AFR has a 75cc chamber version of the 195 heads, perfect for use on a flattop 355. see 180cc SBC Street Cylinder Head - Air Flow Research These are nice.

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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 16, 10:06 PM
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

decent port EFI setup will save you money on gas every time you start the car.

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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 6th, 16, 10:41 PM
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

Remi,
Not sure how much you want to spend but ....... I just got back from about a 1400 mile trip in my 99 Tahoe. It has the 350 Vortec engine, has 210K miles on it and still has the original plugs, cap rotor and wires. With the od trans it turns about 1800 rpm at 70 mph. We probably averaged 65 mph the entire trip up and back down the east coast. So ..... I had not checked the mileage in many years so I filled it up right before we left. Kept track of all of the gas we used and filled it back at the same station as when I started when we finished the trip. It got just over 19 MPG I don't know what the flywheel horsepower is of those engines but my Tahoe is a good 5000 lbs and I have towed a 38 ft boat from Massachusetts to Maryland with it and it had no problems.

I guess what I am getting at is if you could find a complete take out deal from those year trucks or Tahoes it would be ideal. Not sure how hard it would be to find over there though.

Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md


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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 16, 12:30 PM
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillK View Post
Remi,

"edited"

I guess what I am getting at is if you could find a complete take out deal from those year trucks or Tahoes it would be ideal. Not sure how hard it would be to find over there though.

I was going to suggest the same thing.
Could be a big savings in the long run.

Dave

#1104
1969 Chevelle 460, 3.73 posi
Auto Gear Super Case with M22 gears
12.11 @108 mph
Top speed 114.23
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 16, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

Take out engines doesn't exist here in Norway. Atleast not in the way you are used to. Because of import rules a 90's caprice or truck is still worth a lot of money, and they Are few and 95% diesel. Unfortunately.

Same goes for vortec heads, that means I'm looking at new heads. Might as well buy conventional alu heads if I have to buy new right ?

I'm liking the Afr headed deal.
Pretty sure a 10:1, afr headed, mild cam, rpm intake and long tube headers. Q-jet or Edelbrock carb would do what I wan't. Couple that with the 4l80e, think it would be nice.

Also been looking at the 185cc Promaxx. Seems to be a lot of head for the money. But haven't seem many use them, dyno tests, real world experience etc.
And maybe use the money saved on efi.
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65 Chevelle, ZZ502 with 11,2:1cr and 242/252 110 cam.
Th400. 3,73. 5200stall.
Best 1/8: 7,058 Best 1/4: 11,17 Best mph: 118,6 Best 60: 1,56
13.6mpg

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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 16, 5:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

The coolness factor of having a 454 would probably be worth a couple of mpg´s....

Wonder what a oval port headed 454 with super mild "mpg-cam", with with q-jet, 4l80e and 3.08´s would do at best going 60mph steady cruising..

65 Chevelle, ZZ502 with 11,2:1cr and 242/252 110 cam.
Th400. 3,73. 5200stall.
Best 1/8: 7,058 Best 1/4: 11,17 Best mph: 118,6 Best 60: 1,56
13.6mpg

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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 16, 5:51 PM
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokker View Post
The coolness factor of having a 454 would probably be worth a couple of mpg´s....

Wonder what a oval port headed 454 with super mild "mpg-cam", with with q-jet, 4l80e and 3.08´s would do at best going 60mph steady cruising..
What if you go the big block route and are wrong? Is it worth taking the chance in time and money?

Remember the old saying, K.I.S.S., keep it simple, stupid. That is what my dad would always say when I was younger and over complicating things.

On a purely functional level, likely financially, a 350 is the clear winner. If you decide to go with a 454 that is for other reasons.

Steve R
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 16, 9:08 PM
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

As I understand it, machine work in Europe is pretty expensive? Piecemeal parts might not be to good with duties and such...

So how about a complete engine crated up and shipped?
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old Aug 7th, 16, 10:41 PM
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Re: Need tips and thoughts with building a great DD engine.

Big cubic inches, small cam, TH350 or TH400, 87 octane, 2.56 or 2.73 gears. Q-Jet.

Mike

69 Chevelle 496/TH400
ET/Speed - 11.371 @ 117.23 - SOLD JUNE 2017


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