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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 13, 1:00 PM Thread Starter
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Oil / RPM recommendation

Good Day Guys
I recently updated from a 71 chevelle to a 1970 SS clone with 454 block bored.30 over. My question is the guy i bought it from said he was using 20w 50 conventional oil? Im trying to figure out if this is the best choice (or was it break in oil) Attached is some pictures of the receipts of some of the engine parts that it has? Also the guy i purchased the car from had the shift light at some where upwards of 6,ooo RPMs is it safe( this is where it is still set; i have hit mid 5,000)? I have drove the car 5 times a total of maybe 70 miles. Looking for any insight / recommendations? The car had these parts installed at Futral Motorsports.
Appreciation in advance!Click image for larger version

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 13, 1:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Oil / RPM recommendation








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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 13, 2:08 PM
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Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

My buddy who built up his engine always uses 20-50 Castrol GTX oil. Oil is a very thin layer, thinner than paper, across your metal parts... Use too thin of oil and you got metal to metal contact if that oils just flinging off. Use too thick of oil and you chance causing too much pressure to your oil pump and other parts. I use 20-50 in the summer and 10-30 in the winter.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 13, 2:13 PM
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Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAPBT View Post
Good Day Guys
I recently updated from a 71 chevelle to a 1970 SS clone with 454 block bored.30 over. My question is the guy i bought it from said he was using 20w 50 conventional oil? Im trying to figure out if this is the best choice (or was it break in oil) Attached is some pictures of the receipts of some of the engine parts that it has? Also the guy i purchased the car from had the shift light at some where upwards of 6,ooo RPMs is it safe( this is where it is still set; i have hit mid 5,000)? I have drove the car 5 times a total of maybe 70 miles. Looking for any insight / recommendations? The car had these parts installed at Futral Motorsports.
Appreciation in advance!Attachment 130794






http://tinypic.com/r/2a8mbdu/5

http://tinypic.com/r/29x6eep/5
================================

Oh boy,here we go again!/LOL!

Anyway,If your motor has a flat tappet cam (especially an aftermarket ft perf cam) read about the specific oil/zddp reqirements they have as stated by aftermarket perf ft cam mfg's and oil mfg's too which i pasted below for you to chk out to avoid confusion.

Though not as critical for stock prod cars running mild roller cams aftermarket perf roller cams running higher sring rate and more agressive cam profile can also benefit from the additional anti wear agents/zddp in oil thats specifically formulated for ft cams so you can use oil formulated for perf ft cams in an aftermarket perf roller setup to.

Scott

================================================== ======

FT CAM OIL REC FROM THE FT CAM MFG AND OIL MFG'S IS PASTED BELOW.

From Amsoil:
Provide facts outlining lubrication requirements of flat tappet
camshaft engines and the importance of higher levels of zinc
and phosphorus.
ISSUES:
Flat tappet camshafts undego extreme pressure and loads,
thus requiring an engine oil that is fortified with anti-wear
additives (ZDDP) to provide premium protection. The severity of
higher spring pressure in racing engines also creates the need
for additional wear protection.
To preserve catalytic converter life, zinc/phosphorus levels in
motor oil have been reduced. Concerns have risen that oils
containing lower levels of zinc/phosphorus could provide
insufficient protection in high-pressure areas of flat tappets
and camshaft lobes found in many older and high performance
engines.
TECHNICAL DISCUSSION:
The most commonly used anti-wear additive in motor oils is
zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP). ZDDP contains both
zinc and phosphorus components working together to provide
anti-wear protection, and is most important during cam
“break-in” procedures. Proper break-in lubes should be used
during the break-in phase for all new or rebuilt engines with
flat tappets. These lubricants provide the extra protection
required to reduce wear at the point of contact during break-in
and help the flat tappet face properly mate with the cam lobe.
Once the break-in phase is completed.
AMSOIL motor oils which are formulated with high levels of zinc and phosphorus,
will provide premium protection to flat tappet cams.
The American Petroleum Institute (API) and International
Lubricants Standards Approval Committee (ILSAC) have
mandated the reduction of phosphorus to extend catalytic converter
life.
However, reducing the level of ZDDP can compromise
protection to engine components, most notably in flat
tappet camshafts.Current API SM and ILSAC GF-4 specifications
for gasoline engines have maximum and minimum
phosphorus levels of 800 ppm and 600 ppm .
All engines (especially flat tappet) benefit from oils with superior film strength and anti-wear (ZDDP) properties. The flat tappet/camshaft lobe interface is the one
area in an engine that has extreme contact load. Since this load
increases significantly (more when non-stock,high-pressure valve
springs are employed) the use of properly formulated motor
oils is extremely important to reduce wear and extend flat tappet/
camshaft life.(oil with elevated zddp >800ppm is not for use with cat converters)
AMSOIL recommends motor oils containing high levels of zinc/phosphorus for superior protection especially for
flat tappet cam applications.
================================================== ================
CRANE CAMS:
CRANE FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT RECOMMENDED BREAK-IN PROCEDURE
Due to the EPA’s mandate for zinc removal from most motor oils, proper flat tappet camshaft break-in procedure is more critical than ever before. This is true for both hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet Camshafts. As a point of interest, the most critical time in the life of a flat tappet camshaft is the first 20 minutes of “break-in” during which the bottoms of the tappets “mate-in” with the cam lobes.
There are some oils with additive packages that are better for camshaft “break-in”. These include, but are not limited to: (Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs racing) or a “race only” petroleum- based oil and include Crane Cams Part # 99003-1 Super Lube” additive. Do not use API rated “SL” or “SM” oil.
CAUTION: We do not recommend the use of synthetic oils for “break-in”. Prior to installing the camshaft and lifters, it is recommended that the crankcase be drained and filled with new, clean oil, as listed above. The oil filter should also be changed at this time. Proper flat tappet camshaft break-in starts with the cam installation and includes the following steps:
================================================== ================
Comp Cams:
Subject: Flat Tappet Camshaft Failures (Hydraulic & Solid/Mechanical)
Recent changes in oil and engine technology are likely the cause of premature camshaft
failure; here’s how you can protect your engine!
Premature flat tappet camshaft failure has been on the rise recently and not just with one brand or type of camshaft. In almost every case, the hardness or taper of the cam lobe is suspected, yet most of the time that is not the problem. This growing trend is due to factors that are completely unrelated to camshaft manufacture or quality control. Changes in today’s oil products and “advancements” in internal engine configurations have contributed to a harsher environment for the camshaft and a potential for failure during break-in.
Engine Oil Selection
Another major factor in the increase of flat tappet camshaft failure is your favorite brand of
engine oil. Simply put, today’s engine oil is just not the same as it used to be, thanks to ever tightening environmental regulations. The EPA has done a great job in reducing emissions and the effects of some of the ingredients found in traditional oils; however these changes in the oil have only made life tougher on your flat tappet camshaft. The lubricity of the oil and specifically the reduction of important anti-wear additives such as zinc and phosphorus, which help break-in and overall camshaft life, have been drastically reduced. In terms of oil selection, we recommend oil with the proper level of “ZDDP”, Zinc Dialkyl Dithiosphosphate additive fortification.
Recent market trends and misinformation have led to a new and adverse side effect known as “Overloading on ZDDP”. When overloading on ZDDP, the additive can actually cause blocking of other important additives, such as friction modifiers or detergent agents. It is imperative that the ZDDP level is carefully specified and blended to correct concentrations.
Engine Oils, Supplements, & Additives
Making certain that the camshaft and lifters are properly lubricated upon installation will
guarantee that they are protected during the critical start-up of your newly-built engine. COMP Cams® offers the right product for this job (COMP Cams® Part #153), and it is available in several different size containers for engine builder convenience. COMP Cams® also has a line of Break-In Oils (COMP Cams® Part #1590 [10w30] and #1595 [20w50]) which have a proprietary formula that includes the proper amount of critical additives, including ZDDP (Zinc& Phosphorus), Molybdenum, detergents and high grade base oil to give you the most optimumoil for the break-in and long-term running of all your purposefully chosen performance enginecomponents. If you have a preferred oil with which you feel comfortable, we strongly recommend the use of COMP Cams® Break-In Oil Additive (COMP Cams® Part #159) duringbreak-in.
COMP Cams®
3406 Democrat Rd. * Memphis, TN 38118
Phone: 1-800-999-0853 * Fax: (901) 366-1807
www.compcams.com
Part #255
Revised 1/29/10
subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long term use. This proprietary blend of anti-wear ZDDP fortification, anti-fiction Molybdenum, and extreme pressure additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that the oil companies have been forced to remove from off-theshelf oil. These specialized COMP Cams® lubricants are the best “insurance policy” you can buy, and are the first step to avoiding durability problems with your new flat tappet camshaft.
================================================== =====
MOBIL-1'S ANSWER TO OLD SCHOOL FT CAM'D MOTOR OIL REQUIREMENTS FROM THIER WEBSITE.
Heres an example from Mobil oil website question section on what they rec for a high perf ft cam app like your avg old school sbc with a high perf ft cam.
BTW,the 15w-50 nascar endorsed syn oil the Mobil-1 tech is reffering to below has a decent 1300ppm zddp per mobil-1 website and also note they/Mobil-1 didnt rec a much thinner 5-30 or 10-30 grade SN rated oil with a much lower zddp lvl for the hi perf FT cam app in question i cut & pasted from the Mobil-1 website which is because its not best choice in Mobil-1's opinon for that app.
So read the info i patsed below and then make you own choice from there weather to use low zddp lvl SN rated oils in your hi perf ft cam apps as long as said oil with good zddp lvl also has a good quality base stock oil & additive pkg to back up the proper zddp lvl to work together collectively as a strong team to better protect a hi perf FT cam'd motor.
Scott

Ask Mobil
Oil for a Modified 70’s Camaro
Ask Your Stickiest Question. . . Or ask us something you’ve always wanted to know about using our products. We’ll sort through all the submissions and present the best questions to our automotive experts. We'll share the questions and their answers here.
Question:
Oil for a Modified 70’s Camaro
Everyone seems to have an opinion and your chart does not go back to 1970. I just bought a 1970 Camaro highly modified 400 Chevy small block. The car does not get driven much - only to car shows and the drag strip a couple times a year. What is the best oil to use because these motors tend to have heat issues. It has a " flat tappet cam ". I want max protection and have used your products for years but not synthetics. Thanks for info.
-- Dennis Boyd, Lexington, KY
Answer:
For your Camaro, we would recommend Mobil 1™ 15W-50 synthetic motor oil. Mobil 1 15W-50 is a higher viscosity synthetic oil that delivers a thick oil film for protection of high performance engines. Mobil 1 15W-50 is recommended for older valve trains like the highly loaded flat tappets used in your Camaro. These types of engines benefit from the higher level of anti-wear (ZDDP) in that oil normally not required in newer generation vehicles.
==================================================
Brad Penn:
The Brad Penn® Penn Grade 1® High Performance Oils contain the higher level of anti-wear (ZDDP – zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) and enhanced film strength so critical to proper high performance engine protection. The Penn-Grade 1® oils “typical” 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P) content provide the needed anti-wear protection to critical engine parts, such as piston/cylinder walls, roller cams under heavy valve spring pressure and especially those that employ a solid “flat tappet” type system. As important as the chemistry is to the Penn-Grade 1® oils, it is by no means the whole story. The unique base oil cut used to refine the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oils maintain a tremendous affinity to metal surfaces. This naturally occurring “metal wetting” characteristic enables the oil to stay put on your highly stressed engines and makes the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oil resist slinging for an extended period of time. Also, rest assured in knowing that the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oils are 100% Made in the USA.
==================================================
ANOTHER OIL REC FOR FT CAM'D MOTORS FROM MOBIL OIL.
Scott,
The ILSAC requirement demands that you are only allowed to have max of 800ppm of ZDDP in energy conserving SM, SN & newest GF-5 motor oils, which are your 10W30 and lower viscosities.
As you can see the Mobil1 15W-50 syn is also API "SN" but we are allowed to formulate it with as much ZDDP in the formulation (1300ppm) for FT cam use without issue because it is not an energy conserving motor oil.
So to answer your question, it is never a good idea to use an ILSAC rated SM-SN-GF-5 motor oil (with 800ppm zddp) for flat tappet cammed engines.
-- Thank you for choosing ExxonMobil products.
__________________
SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2006 YAMAHA 1700 ROADSTAR SILVERADO (1 owner ,GOT in 2009,4,700 miles/WK end fun)
1977 KAWASAKI KZ1000 (AM ORIGINAL OWNER ,GOT IN 1977,NOW has 29k miles/WK end fun)
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 13, 3:09 PM
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Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

The oil is fine. RPM, is based on the cam and valvesprings. I don't see the specs for those.

Ray


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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 13, 3:31 PM
540 RAT
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Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAPBT View Post
Good Day Guys
I recently updated from a 71 chevelle to a 1970 SS clone with 454 block bored.30 over. My question is the guy i bought it from said he was using 20w 50 conventional oil? Im trying to figure out if this is the best choice (or was it break in oil) Attached is some pictures of the receipts of some of the engine parts that it has? Also the guy i purchased the car from had the shift light at some where upwards of 6,ooo RPMs is it safe( this is where it is still set; i have hit mid 5,000)? I have drove the car 5 times a total of maybe 70 miles. Looking for any insight / recommendations? The car had these parts installed at Futral Motorsports.
Appreciation in advance!Attachment 130794






http://tinypic.com/r/2a8mbdu/5

http://tinypic.com/r/29x6eep/5
20W50 is too thick. Consider the benefits of using thinner oil:

• Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating critical engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can. Most engine wear takes place during cold start-up before oil flow can reach all the components. So, quicker flowing thinner oil will help reduce start-up engine wear, which is actually reducing wear overall.

• The more free flowing thinner oil at cold start-up, is also much less likely to cause the oil filter bypass to open up, compared to thicker oil. Of course if the bypass opened up, that would allow unfiltered oil to be pumped through the engine. The colder the ambient temperature, and the more rpm used when the engine is cold, the more important this becomes.

• Thinner oil also flows more at normal operating temperatures. And oil FLOW is lubrication, but oil pressure is NOT lubrication. Oil pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. Running thicker oil just to up the oil pressure is the wrong thing to do, because that only reduces oil flow/lubrication. Oil pressure in and of itself, is NOT what we are after.

• The more free flowing thinner oil will also drain back to the oil pan quicker than thicker oil. So, thinner oil can help maintain a higher oil level in the oil pan during operation, which keeps the oil pump pickup from possibly sucking air during braking and cornering.

• The old rule of thumb that we should have at least 10 psi for every 1,000 rpm is perfectly fine. Running thicker oil to achieve more pressure than that, will simply reduce oil flow for no good reason. It is best to run the thinnest oil we can, that will still maintain at least the rule of thumb oil pressure. And one of the benefits of running a high volume oil pump, is that it will allow us to enjoy all the benefits of running thinner oil, while still maintaining sufficient oil pressure. A high volume oil pump/thinner oil combo is preferred over running a standard volume oil pump/thicker oil combo. Because oil “flow” is our goal for ideal oiling, NOT simply high oil pressure.

• Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components. Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INdirectly water cooled. And better flowing thinner oil will keep critical engine components cooler because it carries heat away faster. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will be driving up engine component temps. For example: Plain bearings, such as rod and main bearings are lubricated by oil flow, not by oil pressure. Oil pressure is NOT what keeps these parts separated. Oil pressure serves only to supply the oil to this interface. The parts are kept apart by the incompressible hydrodynamic liquid oil wedge that is formed as the liquid oil is pulled in between the spinning parts. As long as sufficient oil is supplied, no wear can occur. In addition to this, the flow of oil through the bearings is what cools them. So, thinner oil will flow more, and thus cool the bearings better, as well as lubricate the bearings better than thicker oil.

• Thinner oil will typically increase HP because of less viscous drag and reduced pumping losses, compared to thicker oils. That is why very serious Race efforts will generally use watery thin oils in their engines. But, an exception to this increase in HP would be in high rpm hydraulic lifter engines, where thinner oil can allow the lifters to malfunction at very high rpm. In everyday street vehicles, where fuel consumption is a consideration, thinner oils will also typically increase fuel economy. The majority of new cars sold in the U.S. now call for 5W20 specifically for increased fuel economy. And now Diesel trucks are increasingly calling for 5W30, also for fuel economy improvement.

• With the exception of high rpm hydraulic lifter engines, almost no engine should ever need to run oil thicker than a multi-viscosity 30 weight. The lower the first number cold viscosity rating, the better the cold flow. For example, 0W30 flows WAY better cold than 20W50. And 0W30 flows WAY better cold than straight 30wt, which is horrible for cold start-up flow and should be avoided at all cost. And the lower the second number hot viscosity rating, the better the hot flow. For example, 0W30 flows WAY better hot than 20W50.

• Thicker oil DOES NOT automatically provide better wear protection than thinner oils. Extensive “dynamic wear testing under load” of well over 100 motor oils, has shown that the base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, is what determines an oil’s wear protection capability, NOT its viscosity. For example, some 5W20 oils have proven to provide OUTSTANDING wear protection, while some 15W50 oils have only been able to provide MODEST wear protection. So, do not run thicker oil under the false assumption that it can provide better wear protection for our engines.

• BOTTOM LINE: Thinner oils are better for most engine lubrication needs.


And forget what Scott Wheaton says about the need for high zinc levels in your oil. He means well, but he only repeats the same old Folklore that has been thrown around for years. People and even Cam Companies say that only because they don't know any better.

Actual Engineering test data has proven over and over again that the high zinc thinking is a pure myth. For the facts, go to the link below.


540 RAT

U.S. Patent Holder

Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)


To see my entire 100+ motor oil “Wear Protection Ranking List”, along with additional motor oil tech FACTS (with over 15,000 “views” worldwide), here’s a link:

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 13, 4:06 PM
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Join Date: May 1999
Location: steven point, wi
Posts: 1,376
Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by 540 RAT View Post
20W50 is too thick. Consider the benefits of using thinner oil:

• Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating critical engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can. Most engine wear takes place during cold start-up before oil flow can reach all the components. So, quicker flowing thinner oil will help reduce start-up engine wear, which is actually reducing wear overall.

• The more free flowing thinner oil at cold start-up, is also much less likely to cause the oil filter bypass to open up, compared to thicker oil. Of course if the bypass opened up, that would allow unfiltered oil to be pumped through the engine. The colder the ambient temperature, and the more rpm used when the engine is cold, the more important this becomes.

• Thinner oil also flows more at normal operating temperatures. And oil FLOW is lubrication, but oil pressure is NOT lubrication. Oil pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. Running thicker oil just to up the oil pressure is the wrong thing to do, because that only reduces oil flow/lubrication. Oil pressure in and of itself, is NOT what we are after.

• The more free flowing thinner oil will also drain back to the oil pan quicker than thicker oil. So, thinner oil can help maintain a higher oil level in the oil pan during operation, which keeps the oil pump pickup from possibly sucking air during braking and cornering.

• The old rule of thumb that we should have at least 10 psi for every 1,000 rpm is perfectly fine. Running thicker oil to achieve more pressure than that, will simply reduce oil flow for no good reason. It is best to run the thinnest oil we can, that will still maintain at least the rule of thumb oil pressure. And one of the benefits of running a high volume oil pump, is that it will allow us to enjoy all the benefits of running thinner oil, while still maintaining sufficient oil pressure. A high volume oil pump/thinner oil combo is preferred over running a standard volume oil pump/thicker oil combo. Because oil “flow” is our goal for ideal oiling, NOT simply high oil pressure.

• Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components. Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INdirectly water cooled. And better flowing thinner oil will keep critical engine components cooler because it carries heat away faster. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will be driving up engine component temps. For example: Plain bearings, such as rod and main bearings are lubricated by oil flow, not by oil pressure. Oil pressure is NOT what keeps these parts separated. Oil pressure serves only to supply the oil to this interface. The parts are kept apart by the incompressible hydrodynamic liquid oil wedge that is formed as the liquid oil is pulled in between the spinning parts. As long as sufficient oil is supplied, no wear can occur. In addition to this, the flow of oil through the bearings is what cools them. So, thinner oil will flow more, and thus cool the bearings better, as well as lubricate the bearings better than thicker oil.

• Thinner oil will typically increase HP because of less viscous drag and reduced pumping losses, compared to thicker oils. That is why very serious Race efforts will generally use watery thin oils in their engines. But, an exception to this increase in HP would be in high rpm hydraulic lifter engines, where thinner oil can allow the lifters to malfunction at very high rpm. In everyday street vehicles, where fuel consumption is a consideration, thinner oils will also typically increase fuel economy. The majority of new cars sold in the U.S. now call for 5W20 specifically for increased fuel economy. And now Diesel trucks are increasingly calling for 5W30, also for fuel economy improvement.

• With the exception of high rpm hydraulic lifter engines, almost no engine should ever need to run oil thicker than a multi-viscosity 30 weight. The lower the first number cold viscosity rating, the better the cold flow. For example, 0W30 flows WAY better cold than 20W50. And 0W30 flows WAY better cold than straight 30wt, which is horrible for cold start-up flow and should be avoided at all cost. And the lower the second number hot viscosity rating, the better the hot flow. For example, 0W30 flows WAY better hot than 20W50.

• Thicker oil DOES NOT automatically provide better wear protection than thinner oils. Extensive “dynamic wear testing under load” of well over 100 motor oils, has shown that the base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, is what determines an oil’s wear protection capability, NOT its viscosity. For example, some 5W20 oils have proven to provide OUTSTANDING wear protection, while some 15W50 oils have only been able to provide MODEST wear protection. So, do not run thicker oil under the false assumption that it can provide better wear protection for our engines.

• BOTTOM LINE: Thinner oils are better for most engine lubrication needs.


And forget what Scott Wheaton says about the need for high zinc levels in your oil. He means well, but he only repeats the same old Folklore that has been thrown around for years. People and even Cam Companies say that only because they don't know any better.

Actual Engineering test data has proven over and over again that the high zinc thinking is a pure myth. For the facts, go to the link below.


540 RAT

U.S. Patent Holder

Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)


To see my entire 100+ motor oil “Wear Protection Ranking List”, along with additional motor oil tech FACTS (with over 15,000 “views” worldwide), here’s a link:

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/


No offense but we are supposed to believe you over all the cam companys that say the higher zinc is good for solid mechanical cams? I see you post this same stuff all over the internet but when someone asks you questions about your tests you never answer. I think i will use what the cam companys say to use with there cams, they do the research and testing on the cams so they should know.

lucky3
1968 ss(clone)
468bbc
straub Hydraulic roller,bigs 950 carb,airgap intake


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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 13, 6:39 PM
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Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

I guess if HIGH ZINC is a myth, The COs. that mfg. it like Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, Royal Purple, and all the others are full of $h!t.
Most new class 7 Diesel engines have roller lifters, So the zinc deal is a non issue. Why do the MFGs of diesel engine oil, Before the roller lifter engines, DELO, SHELL TELLUS, MOBIL,EXXON. All engine oil designed for flat tappet diesel use had ZINC.
Also as time marches on , The zinc and other componds that are in oil today will be less & less WHY?
MOST ALL new Diesel & Automotive engines are using roller lifters. Thus the need for Zinc for the metal on metal will be NO MORE.
When time permits go to a Caterpiller Engine Co. and ask WHY Caterpiller NO LONGER builds class 7 Truck engines for over the road trucks. That's my 2 Cents.
Bob


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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 13, 8:20 PM
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Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

I use rotella 5/40 in my motors.

Ray


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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 13, 8:22 PM
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Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

Bob your great, LOL
Got anymore change ?
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 13, 8:32 PM
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Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by 540 RAT View Post
20W50 is too thick. Consider the benefits of using thinner oil:

• Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating critical engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can. Most engine wear takes place during cold start-up before oil flow can reach all the components. So, quicker flowing thinner oil will help reduce start-up engine wear, which is actually reducing wear overall.

• The more free flowing thinner oil at cold start-up, is also much less likely to cause the oil filter bypass to open up, compared to thicker oil. Of course if the bypass opened up, that would allow unfiltered oil to be pumped through the engine. The colder the ambient temperature, and the more rpm used when the engine is cold, the more important this becomes.

• Thinner oil also flows more at normal operating temperatures. And oil FLOW is lubrication, but oil pressure is NOT lubrication. Oil pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. Running thicker oil just to up the oil pressure is the wrong thing to do, because that only reduces oil flow/lubrication. Oil pressure in and of itself, is NOT what we are after.

• The more free flowing thinner oil will also drain back to the oil pan quicker than thicker oil. So, thinner oil can help maintain a higher oil level in the oil pan during operation, which keeps the oil pump pickup from possibly sucking air during braking and cornering.

• The old rule of thumb that we should have at least 10 psi for every 1,000 rpm is perfectly fine. Running thicker oil to achieve more pressure than that, will simply reduce oil flow for no good reason. It is best to run the thinnest oil we can, that will still maintain at least the rule of thumb oil pressure. And one of the benefits of running a high volume oil pump, is that it will allow us to enjoy all the benefits of running thinner oil, while still maintaining sufficient oil pressure. A high volume oil pump/thinner oil combo is preferred over running a standard volume oil pump/thicker oil combo. Because oil “flow” is our goal for ideal oiling, NOT simply high oil pressure.

• Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components. Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INdirectly water cooled. And better flowing thinner oil will keep critical engine components cooler because it carries heat away faster. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will be driving up engine component temps. For example: Plain bearings, such as rod and main bearings are lubricated by oil flow, not by oil pressure. Oil pressure is NOT what keeps these parts separated. Oil pressure serves only to supply the oil to this interface. The parts are kept apart by the incompressible hydrodynamic liquid oil wedge that is formed as the liquid oil is pulled in between the spinning parts. As long as sufficient oil is supplied, no wear can occur. In addition to this, the flow of oil through the bearings is what cools them. So, thinner oil will flow more, and thus cool the bearings better, as well as lubricate the bearings better than thicker oil.

• Thinner oil will typically increase HP because of less viscous drag and reduced pumping losses, compared to thicker oils. That is why very serious Race efforts will generally use watery thin oils in their engines. But, an exception to this increase in HP would be in high rpm hydraulic lifter engines, where thinner oil can allow the lifters to malfunction at very high rpm. In everyday street vehicles, where fuel consumption is a consideration, thinner oils will also typically increase fuel economy. The majority of new cars sold in the U.S. now call for 5W20 specifically for increased fuel economy. And now Diesel trucks are increasingly calling for 5W30, also for fuel economy improvement.

• With the exception of high rpm hydraulic lifter engines, almost no engine should ever need to run oil thicker than a multi-viscosity 30 weight. The lower the first number cold viscosity rating, the better the cold flow. For example, 0W30 flows WAY better cold than 20W50. And 0W30 flows WAY better cold than straight 30wt, which is horrible for cold start-up flow and should be avoided at all cost. And the lower the second number hot viscosity rating, the better the hot flow. For example, 0W30 flows WAY better hot than 20W50.

• Thicker oil DOES NOT automatically provide better wear protection than thinner oils. Extensive “dynamic wear testing under load” of well over 100 motor oils, has shown that the base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, is what determines an oil’s wear protection capability, NOT its viscosity. For example, some 5W20 oils have proven to provide OUTSTANDING wear protection, while some 15W50 oils have only been able to provide MODEST wear protection. So, do not run thicker oil under the false assumption that it can provide better wear protection for our engines.

• BOTTOM LINE: Thinner oils are better for most engine lubrication needs.


And forget what Scott Wheaton says about the need for high zinc levels in your oil. He means well, but he only repeats the same old Folklore that has been thrown around for years. People and even Cam Companies say that only because they don't know any better.

Actual Engineering test data has proven over and over again that the high zinc thinking is a pure myth. For the facts, go to the link below.


540 RAT

U.S. Patent Holder

Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)


To see my entire 100+ motor oil “Wear Protection Ranking List”, along with additional motor oil tech FACTS (with over 15,000 “views” worldwide), here’s a link:

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
================================================

" forget what Scott Wheaton says about the need for high zinc levels in your oil. He means well, but he only repeats the same old Folklore that has been thrown around for "

Well 540rat isnt that nice,your just so far above you think you know better then the ft cam mfgs and oil mfgs that both know better then you what proper oil is for ft cam apps and the role zddp/anti wear agent plays in it too.

And btw,i really didnt say much to OP here about zddp or oil,i just posted the truth comming from the experts in the fld at ft cam mfgs and oil mfgs as far as what oils best for ft cams and totally ignore what the cam & oil mfgs have to,your quite a blow hard IMHO.

And you continuing to spew your incorrect re c will liley lead to more then few guys trashing thier motor/s due to running the newer SN & newer rated oil your rec for ft perf cam apps.

As for myself, i can say i have 42yrs + of 1st hand exp installing perf ft cams to go along with since approx 2004 /going on 10 yrs researching /testing oil at certified test facilities.

Thats included me presonally speaking to engineers at ft cam mfg's and chemists at oil mfgs & oil additive mfgs all to do with whats going with todays oils and the affect the greatly reduced zddp/anti wear agents has on ft cam'd motors in classic cars.

And i cant believe your so brazing to keep posting your incorrect rec on proper oil for ft cams right under the rec from the ft cam & oil mfgs that have the credentials to know more thats you or my self put together on the subject.

I have spent almost 10 yrs researching the oil vs ft cams issues and have learned a lot from the engineers at cam mfg's/oil mfgs/oil additive mfgs on this subject and do know it quite well as i should after being knee deep in it for 10yrs.

And oil was kind of side interest of mine for many yrs before i took it on well before you came on the scene here so i really have more then 10yrs of educating myself & researching motor oil before doing it here in t/c since 2004 along with also successfully installing perf ft cams for over 42yrs too.

So keep spewing your totally incorrect bs on zddp and proper oil for perf ft cams because people here in team chevelle arent as stupid as you think they are.

All they have to do is read what i had posted and if they dont believe it go the websites for a few perf ft cam mfg's and contact a few oil mfgs on the subject of zddp and proper oil for perf ft cams & they will see what i have been rec/stating/posting is the truth !

But they will also find what your posting is totally off base/incorrect according to the experts in the the fld when it comes to zddp's role and proper oil for perf ft cams,that also includes me with over 10yr researching oil & 42yrs plus exp successfully installing ft cams to back me up with what i rec here in t/c.

I just cant believe your so closed minded and think you know more/better then the ft cam mfgs & oil mfgs as far as zddp's role in protecting ft cams and proper oil for perf ft cams too,i just dont understand that line of thinking thats shows just how much of a fool you truely are.

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)
SWHEATON is offline  
post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 13, 9:06 PM
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Mark
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Maryland's Eastern Shore, Cambridge MD.
Posts: 886
Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

I'm not going to get into the technicalities or politics or a debate . I will say this , if you have a oil that's working for you in your equipment and your not burning oil or having failures , stay with what's working for you . If there's sudden change in oil consumption or failure from what oil you've been using , it's probably because someone has made a change with the oil , it's because someone has changed the make up of the oil . There are so many options in oil formulas and tend to sometimes change without a lot of us not knowing about until its to late , it's like playing Russian rollete when pouring oil into our equipment . My two cents
Boo.Man.1971 is offline  
post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 13, 12:25 PM
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Location: N.Y.
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Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

GUYS HATE TO TAKE THIS OFF TOPIC BUT I HAVE TO SET THIS STRAIGHT BEFORE THIS GUY/540RAT STEERS TOO MANY PEOPLE DOWN A SLIPPERY SLOPE TO TRAHISNG THEIR FT CAM'D MOTORS TO SHOW WHAT THIS GUYS TRUELY ABOUT.

540rat,2 more things on your zinc a myth theory & oil testing in general..

When you tested oil with various lvl of zinc/phos in your psi testing the motor needs to 1st be at normal op temp in the range of (very roughly depending on app etc) 200 deg f at a min or more.

Now you never did that with of the oils you tested in your psi testing which is a fundamental problem .

Thats because the zddp (zinc & phos) pkg is designed to activate a sig nificantly higher temp then the oils normal op temp like for example if there scuffing goining on between lifters & cam lobes which will increase the temp in that small specific area at that time which then activates the zddp pkg to cheemically bond on a molecular lvl setting up a temporary protective boundry laye r to temp protect the cam/lifter interface.

Now when you start out with the motor oil at air temp like 60-90 deg f to do the psi testing even though its a test that generates plenty of heat it doent make up for starting
that test with motor oil at 60-90 deg f when it needs to be at very roughtly 200 deg f to start with to have reali wold test invironment like the motor andf motor oil is really seeing.

And that goes for your testing of the motor oils true psi capability too because the oils are going to perf somewhat diff at 200 deg f or so vs starting out at 60-90deg f.

And what really matters (other then cold flow startup testing for cooler places like canada/alaska) when talking the oils psi capability is how the motor oil perf's when it's up to normal op temp it see's in the motor and not cold off the shelf 100+ deg f colder like you test it at.

That why oil mfgs do oil testing for motor oil with motors on dyno's to simulate real world operating cond the motor oil will see when pushed hard to 250-300+ deg f range and not at 60-90deg f airtemp you do your psi oil tests at that means nothing with respect to how the oil will perf at 200+ deg f in a motor unless your doing cold flow oil testing which is a diff story.

Ok,lets move onto the test used equipement you bought to do the psi testing of motor oil out of your house.

I dealt with test equipment like that over the last 30yrs working in developement engineering @ IBM having experience in that area too and your testoing leaves a lot to be desired for the reasons i will state below.

NOTE,YOU NEVER STATED ANYWHERE THAT YOU WERE SPECIFICALLY TRAINED BY THE MFG OF THE TEST EQUIP YOUR USING OR BY SOMEONE ELSE THAT WAS PROPERLY TRAINED TO CALIBRATE & OR OPERATE SAID TEST EQUIPEMNT SO HAVE TO ASSUME YOU WERE NEVER PROPERLY TRAINED TO CALIBRATE AND OPERATE THE TEST EQUIPEMNT YOUR USING.

AND I POSTED ON THAT ISSUE DIRECTLY TO YOU MULT TIMES IN YOUR OIL TEST POSTINGS HERE IN T/C WHICH YOU NEVER ADDRESSED AT ALL WHICH WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK YOUR OT PROPERLY TRAINED.

THATS WHY ANY AND ALL INFO I POSTED HERE IN T/C ON OILS CAME FROM CERTIFIED TEST FACILITIES AND OR FROM ENGINEERS AT FT CAM MFGS',ENGINEERS AT OIL MFG'S,OR FROM ENGINEERS AT OIL ADDITIVE MFGS THAT ARE TRAINED/QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ON THE SUBJECT OF ZDDP AND MOTOR OIL WITH RESPECT TO ITS AFFECT ON PERF FT CAM APPS. AND MY REC/TIPS FOR INSTALLING & RUNNING FT PERF CAMS CAME FROM MY 42+YRS 1SWT HAND EXPERIENCE INSTALLING FT CAMS AND ALSO 10+ YRS RESEARCHING OIL THRU MFG CAM MFGS,OIL MFGS,AND OIL ADDITIVE MFGS FOR T/C .

SO WITH THAT IN MIND HERE GOE'S

* WERE YOU PROPERLY TRAINED BY YOUR TEST EQUIPEMENTS MFG (OR CERTIFIED OPERATOR OF THAT EQUIPEMNT) TO CALIBRATE YOUR TEST REQUIPMENT ON A DAILY BASIS TO ENSURE YOUR PSI OIL TESTING IS ACCURATE & CONSISTENT?

ANS-NO (NOT THAT YOU HAVE EVER STATED HERE WHEN I ADDRESSED THAT ISSUE IN YOUR OIL TESTING POST IN THE RECENT PAST)

* WERE YOU PROPERLY TRAINED BY YOUR TEST EQUIPEMENTS MFG (OR CERTIFIED OPERATOR OF THAT EQUIPMENT) TO PROPERLY OPERATE YOUR TEST REQUIPMENT TO ENSURE YOUR PSI OIL TESTING IS ACCURATE & CONSISTENT?

ANS-NO (NOT THAT YOU HAVE EVER STATED HERE WHEN I ADDRESSED THAT ISSUE IN YOUR OIL TESTING POST THE RECENT PAST)


* DID YOU ENSURE ALL THE MOTOR OILS YOU TESTED WERE UP TO A MIN OF 200 DEG F OR MORE TO SIMULATE NORMAL OP TEMP SO YOU WOULD SEE HOW THE OIL PERFORMS AT THE REAL TEMP ITS SEEING IN A MOTOR FOR REAL WORLD TESTING?

ANS-NO (NOT THAT YOU HAVE EVER STATED HERE WHEN I ADDRESSED THAT ISSUE IN YOUR OIL TESTING POST THE RECENT PAST)

SO in summary all the psi oil testing you have been posting seems in all honesty to be comming from someone/you 540rat thats NEVER BEEN FORMALLY/PROPERLY TRAINED TO CALIBRATE LTE ALONE OPERATE YOUR TEST EQIPEMENT TO ENSURE PROPER/CONSISTANT PSI OIL TEST RESULTS .

And thats not to mention the fact all your psi oil testing was done with motor oil at room temp of maybe 60-90 deg f when the motor oil needs to be at normal op temp 200deg f or more to ensure the chemical additives in the oils adiditve pkg's are at proper temp to start with so they perf properly when they are heated past norm op temp which they cant do starting at 100 deg f less esp in the case of the zddp that needs to be sig higher then normal op temp to be activated fpr protection .

Thats why the major oil mfgs use dyno testing to test motor oils capability and with respect to the newer SN & GF rated motor oils being used in older ft cam'd nmotors in classic cars they did said tesing using stock mild ft camd dyno mules with non agressive lobe profile and light/mild sporing rates .

But they didnt test the newer gen SN & GF rated moors oils on for ex an old school bbc running ft cam with 400+lbs sping rate with much more agressive spring rate too which is where the newer gen SN & GF rated motors can get you into trouble which BTW the oil engineers at Mobil oil stated were not proper formulated for perf ft cam use and not to use newer SN & Gf rated motors oils in old school perf ft cam apps.

So your said psi oil testing along with the motor oil being 100 deg f colder then it should be to ensure you get true real world results on top of you not being properly trained to calibrate and run your test equipemnt either makes your oil testing inaccurate thus useless.

And no matter how much you boast about your background or certifications the fact remains when it comes to your psi oil testing on non calibrated daily equip run by a non traine person/you with oil not iup to proper op temp means nothing IMHO.

If you get properly trained to calibrate the test equip on daily basis and to operate properly for psi testing and also find a way to consistantly get the motor oil to hold a min of 200 deg f prior to and durring said pis oil testing to simulate real/true op environment the oil see's in the motor then you'd have some thing.

I choose to believe what the experts/engineers rec at the ft cam mfgs ,oil mfgs,and oil additive mfgs have to say about proper oil for perf ft cams and zddp vs your inaccurate test environment and inaccurate opion on zddp being a myth comming from someone like you that cant seem to amidt to himself he's wrong when he is.

This is why i only used certified oil test falilities to test oil and also only passed on info i obtained from engineers and chemeists currently working in the fld at ft cma mfgs ,oil mfgs,and oil adidtive mfgs to ensure it was all proper,true,and correct with no room for error or question.

And all my rec for installing/breakin in ft perf comes from my 42+yrs of 1st hand experience successfully doing it for not just my self but many other peoples cars i was working on over the past 42yrs too which is a lot including working on cars when my father was in the car biz from late 50's thur early 80's when ft cam's motors were the majority.

Enough said.

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)
SWHEATON is offline  
post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 13, 12:35 PM
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Location: N.Y.
Posts: 11,305
Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinls5 View Post
I guess if HIGH ZINC is a myth, The COs. that mfg. it like Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, Royal Purple, and all the others are full of $h!t.
Most new class 7 Diesel engines have roller lifters, So the zinc deal is a non issue. Why do the MFGs of diesel engine oil, Before the roller lifter engines, DELO, SHELL TELLUS, MOBIL,EXXON. All engine oil designed for flat tappet diesel use had ZINC.
Also as time marches on , The zinc and other componds that are in oil today will be less & less WHY?
MOST ALL new Diesel & Automotive engines are using roller lifters. Thus the need for Zinc for the metal on metal will be NO MORE.
When time permits go to a Caterpiller Engine Co. and ask WHY Caterpiller NO LONGER builds class 7 Truck engines for over the road trucks. That's my 2 Cents.
Bob
=============

Bob,Thanks for posting this ,it was getting tough being just about the only person trying to show people this guy/540rat is way off base with his his personal opinion of zddp being a myth not to mention his inaccurate oil testing for psi lvls not having motor oil up to proper temp prior to testing (thats where dyno testnig comes in) along using for as far as we know uncertified test equip that he's/540rat isnt trained to calibrate daily & operate for accurate results like i stated in my latest post here.

The guy is an internet sham when it comes to his zddp myth theory and oil testing for psi lvls with cold oil on uncertified equipement and not being properly trained to calibrate or run said equip too.

Where the heck are the moderators when you need them,they locked me out of t/c for for a while due to me stating the truth about the red assmebly lube that runs off lobe prior to fireup with the pics & data to back it up too,not just all mouth like this guy!

They can see what the ft cam mfgs,oil mfg's,oil additive mfgs rec for ft cams vs what this guys rec as zddp/zinc & phos being a myth and posting oil test results for psi lvl of oil thats not comming from properly calibrated equipement or from a properly trained person operating said test equipment too with motor oil not at proper op temp to begin with.
too.

But the moderators havent yet had the kahoons to shut down this intranet sham atrtist from giving incorrect oil rec to the guys running ft perf cams which will in some cases eventually trash thier motors with $$$$ invested when thier perf ft cam goes bad running his rec oil for ft cams thats not properly formulated to do s o as perf rec i obtained directly from oil mfgs and ft cam mfgs too.

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)

Last edited by SWHEATON; Dec 14th, 13 at 1:04 PM.
SWHEATON is offline  
post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 13, 1:19 PM
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Join Date: May 1999
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Posts: 1,376
Re: Oil / RPM recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWHEATON View Post
GUYS HATE TO TAKE THIS OFF TOPIC BUT I HAVE TO SET THIS STRAIGHT BEFORE THIS GUY/540RAT STEERS TOO MANY PEOPLE DOWN A SLIPPERY SLOPE TO TRAHISNG THEIR FT CAM'D MOTORS TO SHOW WHAT THIS GUYS TRUELY ABOUT.

540rat,2 more things on your zinc a myth theory & oil testing in general..

When you tested oil with various lvl of zinc/phos in your psi testing the motor needs to 1st be at normal op temp in the range of (very roughly depending on app etc) 200 deg f at a min or more.

Now you never did that with of the oils you tested in your psi testing which is a fundamental problem .

Thats because the zddp (zinc & phos) pkg is designed to activate a sig nificantly higher temp then the oils normal op temp like for example if there scuffing goining on between lifters & cam lobes which will increase the temp in that small specific area at that time which then activates the zddp pkg to cheemically bond on a molecular lvl setting up a temporary protective boundry laye r to temp protect the cam/lifter interface.

Now when you start out with the motor oil at air temp like 60-90 deg f to do the psi testing even though its a test that generates plenty of heat it doent make up for starting
that test with motor oil at 60-90 deg f when it needs to be at very roughtly 200 deg f to start with to have reali wold test invironment like the motor andf motor oil is really seeing.

And that goes for your testing of the motor oils true psi capability too because the oils are going to perf somewhat diff at 200 deg f or so vs starting out at 60-90deg f.

And what really matters (other then cold flow startup testing for cooler places like canada/alaska) when talking the oils psi capability is how the motor oil perf's when it's up to normal op temp it see's in the motor and not cold off the shelf 100+ deg f colder like you test it at.

That why oil mfgs do oil testing for motor oil with motors on dyno's to simulate real world operating cond the motor oil will see when pushed hard to 250-300+ deg f range and not at 60-90deg f airtemp you do your psi oil tests at that means nothing with respect to how the oil will perf at 200+ deg f in a motor unless your doing cold flow oil testing which is a diff story.

Ok,lets move onto the test used equipement you bought to do the psi testing of motor oil out of your house.

I dealt with test equipment like that over the last 30yrs working in developement engineering @ IBM having experience in that area too and your testoing leaves a lot to be desired for the reasons i will state below.

NOTE,YOU NEVER STATED ANYWHERE THAT YOU WERE SPECIFICALLY TRAINED BY THE MFG OF THE TEST EQUIP YOUR USING OR BY SOMEONE ELSE THAT WAS PROPERLY TRAINED TO CALIBRATE & OR OPERATE SAID TEST EQUIPEMNT SO HAVE TO ASSUME YOU WERE NEVER PROPERLY TRAINED TO CALIBRATE AND OPERATE THE TEST EQUIPEMNT YOUR USING.

AND I POSTED ON THAT ISSUE DIRECTLY TO YOU MULT TIMES IN YOUR OIL TEST POSTINGS HERE IN T/C WHICH YOU NEVER ADDRESSED AT ALL WHICH WOULD LEAD ANYONE TO THINK YOUR OT PROPERLY TRAINED.

THATS WHY ANY AND ALL INFO I POSTED HERE IN T/C ON OILS CAME FROM CERTIFIED TEST FACILITIES AND OR FROM ENGINEERS AT FT CAM MFGS',ENGINEERS AT OIL MFG'S,OR FROM ENGINEERS AT OIL ADDITIVE MFGS THAT ARE TRAINED/QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ON THE SUBJECT OF ZDDP AND MOTOR OIL WITH RESPECT TO ITS AFFECT ON PERF FT CAM APPS. AND MY REC/TIPS FOR INSTALLING & RUNNING FT PERF CAMS CAME FROM MY 42+YRS 1SWT HAND EXPERIENCE INSTALLING FT CAMS AND ALSO 10+ YRS RESEARCHING OIL THRU MFG CAM MFGS,OIL MFGS,AND OIL ADDITIVE MFGS FOR T/C .

SO WITH THAT IN MIND HERE GOE'S

* WERE YOU PROPERLY TRAINED BY YOUR TEST EQUIPEMENTS MFG (OR CERTIFIED OPERATOR OF THAT EQUIPEMNT) TO CALIBRATE YOUR TEST REQUIPMENT ON A DAILY BASIS TO ENSURE YOUR PSI OIL TESTING IS ACCURATE & CONSISTENT?

ANS-NO (NOT THAT YOU HAVE EVER STATED HERE WHEN I ADDRESSED THAT ISSUE IN YOUR OIL TESTING POST IN THE RECENT PAST)

* WERE YOU PROPERLY TRAINED BY YOUR TEST EQUIPEMENTS MFG (OR CERTIFIED OPERATOR OF THAT EQUIPMENT) TO PROPERLY OPERATE YOUR TEST REQUIPMENT TO ENSURE YOUR PSI OIL TESTING IS ACCURATE & CONSISTENT?

ANS-NO (NOT THAT YOU HAVE EVER STATED HERE WHEN I ADDRESSED THAT ISSUE IN YOUR OIL TESTING POST THE RECENT PAST)


* DID YOU ENSURE ALL THE MOTOR OILS YOU TESTED WERE UP TO A MIN OF 200 DEG F OR MORE TO SIMULATE NORMAL OP TEMP SO YOU WOULD SEE HOW THE OIL PERFORMS AT THE REAL TEMP ITS SEEING IN A MOTOR FOR REAL WORLD TESTING?

ANS-NO (NOT THAT YOU HAVE EVER STATED HERE WHEN I ADDRESSED THAT ISSUE IN YOUR OIL TESTING POST THE RECENT PAST)

SO in summary all the psi oil testing you have been posting seems in all honesty to be comming from someone/you 540rat thats NEVER BEEN FORMALLY/PROPERLY TRAINED TO CALIBRATE LTE ALONE OPERATE YOUR TEST EQIPEMENT TO ENSURE PROPER/CONSISTANT PSI OIL TEST RESULTS .

And thats not to mention the fact all your psi oil testing was done with motor oil at room temp of maybe 60-90 deg f when the motor oil needs to be at normal op temp 200deg f or more to ensure the chemical additives in the oils adiditve pkg's are at proper temp to start with so they perf properly when they are heated past norm op temp which they cant do starting at 100 deg f less esp in the case of the zddp that needs to be sig higher then normal op temp to be activated fpr protection .

Thats why the major oil mfgs use dyno testing to test motor oils capability and with respect to the newer SN & GF rated motor oils being used in older ft cam'd nmotors in classic cars they did said tesing using stock mild ft camd dyno mules with non agressive lobe profile and light/mild sporing rates .

But they didnt test the newer gen SN & GF rated moors oils on for ex an old school bbc running ft cam with 400+lbs sping rate with much more agressive spring rate too which is where the newer gen SN & GF rated motors can get you into trouble which BTW the oil engineers at Mobil oil stated were not proper formulated for perf ft cam use and not to use newer SN & Gf rated motors oils in old school perf ft cam apps.

So your said psi oil testing along with the motor oil being 100 deg f colder then it should be to ensure you get true real world results on top of you not being properly trained to calibrate and run your test equipemnt either makes your oil testing inaccurate thus useless.

And no matter how much you boast about your background or certifications the fact remains when it comes to your psi oil testing on non calibrated daily equip run by a non traine person/you with oil not iup to proper op temp means nothing IMHO.

If you get properly trained to calibrate the test equip on daily basis and to operate properly for psi testing and also find a way to consistantly get the motor oil to hold a min of 200 deg f prior to and durring said pis oil testing to simulate real/true op environment the oil see's in the motor then you'd have some thing.

I choose to believe what the experts/engineers rec at the ft cam mfgs ,oil mfgs,and oil additive mfgs have to say about proper oil for perf ft cams and zddp vs your inaccurate test environment and inaccurate opion on zddp being a myth comming from someone like you that cant seem to amidt to himself he's wrong when he is.

This is why i only used certified oil test falilities to test oil and also only passed on info i obtained from engineers and chemeists currently working in the fld at ft cma mfgs ,oil mfgs,and oil adidtive mfgs to ensure it was all proper,true,and correct with no room for error or question.

And all my rec for installing/breakin in ft perf comes from my 42+yrs of 1st hand experience successfully doing it for not just my self but many other peoples cars i was working on over the past 42yrs too which is a lot including working on cars when my father was in the car biz from late 50's thur early 80's when ft cam's motors were the majority.

Enough said.

Scott
I agree Scott I have seen him post this stuff in at least 10 car sites I've been on and when anyone questions his process he never responds. If he was so sure of himself and tests he would have no problem responding but he doesn't. I've seen plenty off ppl make fun of him and disprove his theory on the other site. He must get joy giving bad info and hopeing ppl wipe there cams out or why would he continue to post this crap. I did hrs and hrs of research on oil for my motor and talked to a lot of cam and oil ppl and his info on zinc is just wrong. In the end its up to the user to decide if they want to take a chance not using the high zinc oils. I didn't it wasn't hard going to my Napa and ordering the good vr1 valvoline oil which cost the same as most the other oil.

lucky3
1968 ss(clone)
468bbc
straub Hydraulic roller,bigs 950 carb,airgap intake


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