Originally Posted by nashville beth
As an engineer, I find it hard to believe any conventional oil is as good as a full synthetic.
They have a lower co-efficient of friction (are slippier) and will prevent parts from wearing.
The zinc additives are BS IMHO. Use a full synthetic.
Synthetics are so good the rings won't seat in a new engine. Conventional oil is used to break in the rings.
Search for postings by "540RAT". I think he's a lubrication engineer.
I CANT LET ALL THIS INCORRECT INFO ABOUT IMPROPER OIL FOR FT CAMS GET GOING YET AGAIN!
"Search for postings by "540RAT". I think he's a lubrication engineer"
THATS A PROBLEM RIGHT THERE!
THAT PERSON HAS BEEN POSTING INCORRECT INFO WHEN IT COMES TO PROPER OILS & PROPER ZDDP LVLS TO RUN WITH PERF FT CAMS.
I POSTED THE CORRECT INFO FOR THIS GUY IN HIS OIL POSTS DIRECTLY FROM THE FT CAM AND OIL MFGS AND HE DOESNT GET IT. WHY HE DOESNT GET IT OR DOESNT BELIEVE WHAT THE FT CAM MFG'S & OIL MFGS HAVE TO SAY WHEN IT COMES TO PROPER ZDDP LVL IN OIL REQUIRED FOR PROPER /SAFE FT CAM OPERATION I WILL LEAVE UP TO YOU!/LOL!!!
ANYWAY,I PASTED BELOW THE CORRECT INFO ON PROPER OILS AND ZDDP LVLS FOR FT CAMS COMMING DIRECTLY FROM MULT OIL MFGS ALONG WITH MULT FT CAM MFGS TOO WHICH ARE THE PEOPLE YOU SHOULD BE LISTENING TOO .
ANYONE THATS TELLS YOU THE PROPER ZDDP LVL ISNT IMPORTANT FOR FT CAM OPERATION DOESNT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT,END OF STORY!
PROPER ZDDP LVL ISNT EVERYTHING BUT NOE THE LESS ITS STILL AN IMPORTANT
PART OF AN OILS ADDITIVE PKG WHEN IT COMES TO PROPER FT CAM PROTECTION.
THATS BACKED UP BY ALL THE STATEMNTS PASTED BELOW DIRECTLY FROM THE CAM & OIL MFGS ON THE SUBJECT FOR YOU TO READ AND LEARN FROM SO IN THE FUTURE YOU WILL KNOW WHAT THE CORRECT OIL ADVICE IS FOR FT CAMS IS FROM THE PEOPLE IN THE BIZ THAT MFG FT CAMS AND OIL FOR FT CAMS.
ALL THE FT CAM MFGS & OIL MFGS KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.
SO YOUR INCORRECT & WHOS BSING NOW WHEN YOU SAY ITS ALL BS WHEN IT COMES TO PROPER ZDDP LVL OR NEEDING ZDDP ADDITIVES FOR FT CAMS!
GUESS YOUR GOING TO TELL US THAT ALL THE CAM & OIL MFGS DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO PROPER OILS AND PROPER ZDDP LVL TO RUN WITH OLD SCHOOL FT CAM APPS.
YOUR ALSO MISINFOMED WHEN IT COMES TO SYN OIL & FT CAMS.
MOST FT CAM MFG WONT WARRANTEE PERF FT CAM BROKEN IN ON SYN OIL,THEY REC NOT BRREAKIN THIER FT CAMS WITH SYN OIL BECAUSE SYN OILS ABILITY TO REDUCE FRICTION /BEING SLICKER CAN IMPEAD/SLOW DOWN PROPER FT LIFTER ROTATION ON CAN LOBE CAUSING IMPROPER BREAKIN AND CAM/LIFTER FAILURE.
THE CAM MFG'S REC BREAKIN FT CAM ON STD DINO THEN DEPEDNING ON CAM MFG THEY REC SWAP FROM SYD DINO TO SYN 1K-3K MILES POST BREAKIN .
SO PLEASE STOP POSTING INCORRECT INFO ON PROPER OIL TO RUN FOR FT CAM APPS BECAUSE YOU COULD TRASH SOMEONES MOTOR DOWN ROAD SOME DAY !!!
READ BELOW INFO DIRECTLY FROM AMSOIL/CRANE/COMP/MOBIL ETC THAT STATES PROPER ZDDP LVL IN OIL IS REQUIRED FOR SAFE FT CAM OPERATION.
AND THESE FT CAM MFGS & OIL MFGS COMPANIES KNOW BEST WHATS THE RIGHT THING TO DO WHEN IT COMES PROPER OIL TO RUN WITH A FT CAM APP VS SOME PEOPLE MON THIS SITE.
ANYONE THAT ARGUES WITH WHAT THESE FT CAM & OIL MFGS ARE STATING WHEN IT COMES TO THE PROPER OIL & ZDDP LVL TO RUN WITH A STOCK TO PERF FT CAM IS AN UNINFORMED FOOL WHEN THEY SAY THE LOW ZDDP LVL IN TODAYS OIL ISNT AN ISSUE
WITH AN OLD SCHOOL FT CAM MOTOR!
I also have over 40yrs wrenching muscle car motors inc successfully installing & breaking in many stock & aftermarket perf ft cams over the yrs so i have plenty of 1st hand exp when it comes to installing ft cams and proper oils etc to run with them too.
I have also been reaserching/testing oils since 2005/8yrs when it comes to the old school FT cam & required zddp lvl's in todays oils along with also contacting & speaking directly to oil engineers and oil chemists at mult oils mfgs,cam mfg and oil additive mfgs like ZDDPlus & camshiled aseir opinions/test data & results were on required zddp lvls for ft cam apps esp perf apps all of which i have posted here many times over the past 8 yrs i have been at it.
ALSO HAVE 30+YRS IN SEMICONDUCTOR INDUSTRY INCLUDING MANY YRS IN DEVELOPMENT ENGINEERING DEALING WITH CHEMICALS/CHEMCIAL TESTING AND EQUIPEMENT USED IN THAT TESTING TOO SO HAVE A GOOD BACK GROUND BACKING ME UP.
I REC ZDDP LVLS OF APPROX 1400-1500PPM WHICH SHOULD SATISFY JUST ABOUT ANY FT APP YOUR RUNING ON THE STREET ,BUT UP TO 1800PPM ZDDP IS SAFE FOR STREET USE AND NEEDED FOR REAT HOT FT CAM WITH AGRESSIVE LOBE PROFILE DESIGN AND VERY HIGH SPRING RATES.
ROLLER CAMS CAN ALSO BENIFIT FROM OILS MFG'D WITH HIGHER ZDDP LVLS FOR FT APPS.
Provide facts outlining lubrication requirements of flat tappet
camshaft engines and the importance of higher levels of zinc
Flat tappet camshafts undego extreme pressure and loads,
thus requiring an engine oil that is fortified with anti-wear
additives (ZDDP) to provide premium protection. The severity of
higher spring pressure in racing engines also creates the need
for additional wear protection.
To preserve catalytic converter life, zinc/phosphorus levels in
motor oil have been reduced. Concerns have risen that oils
containing lower levels of zinc/phosphorus could provide
insufficient protection in high-pressure areas of flat tappets
and camshaft lobes found in many older and high performance
The most commonly used anti-wear additive in motor oils is
zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP). ZDDP contains both
zinc and phosphorus components working together to provide
anti-wear protection, and is most important during cam
“break-in” procedures. Proper break-in lubes should be used
during the break-in phase for all new or rebuilt engines with
flat tappets. These lubricants provide the extra protection
required to reduce wear at the point of contact during break-in
and help the flat tappet face properly mate with the cam lobe.
Once the break-in phase is completed.
AMSOIL motor oils which are formulated with high levels of zinc and phosphorus,
will provide premium protection to flat tappet cams.
The American Petroleum Institute (API) and International
Lubricants Standards Approval Committee (ILSAC) have
mandated the reduction of phosphorus to extend catalytic converter
However, reducing the level of ZDDP can compromise
protection to engine components, most notably in flat
tappet camshafts.Current API SM and ILSAC GF-4 specifications
for gasoline engines have maximum and minimum
phosphorus levels of 800 ppm and 600 ppm .
All engines (especially flat tappet) benefit from oils with superior film strength and anti-wear (ZDDP) properties. The flat tappet/camshaft lobe interface is the one
area in an engine that has extreme contact load. Since this load
increases significantly (more when non-stock,high-pressure valve
springs are employed) the use of properly formulated motor
oils is extremely important to reduce wear and extend flat tappet/
camshaft life.(oil with elevated zddp >800ppm is not for use with cat converters)
AMSOIL recommends motor oils containing high levels of zinc/phosphorus for superior protection especially for
flat tappet cam applications.
CRANE FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT RECOMMENDED BREAK-IN PROCEDURE
Due to the EPA’s mandate for zinc removal from most motor oils, proper flat tappet camshaft break-in procedure is more critical than ever before. This is true for both hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet Camshafts. As a point of interest, the most critical time in the life of a flat tappet camshaft is the first 20 minutes of “break-in” during which the bottoms of the tappets “mate-in” with the cam lobes.
There are some oils with additive packages that are better for camshaft “break-in”. These include, but are not limited to: (Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs racing) or a “race only” petroleum- based oil and include Crane Cams Part # 99003-1 Super Lube” additive. Do not use API rated “SL” or “SM” oil.
CAUTION: We do not recommend the use of synthetic oils for “break-in”. Prior to installing the camshaft and lifters, it is recommended that the crankcase be drained and filled with new, clean oil, as listed above. The oil filter should also be changed at this time. Proper flat tappet camshaft break-in starts with the cam installation and includes the following steps:
Subject: Flat Tappet Camshaft Failures (Hydraulic & Solid/Mechanical)
Recent changes in oil and engine technology are likely the cause of premature camshaft
failure; here’s how you can protect your engine!
Premature flat tappet camshaft failure has been on the rise recently and not just with one brand or type of camshaft. In almost every case, the hardness or taper of the cam lobe is suspected, yet most of the time that is not the problem. This growing trend is due to factors that are completely unrelated to camshaft manufacture or quality control. Changes in today’s oil products and “advancements” in internal engine configurations have contributed to a harsher environment for the camshaft and a potential for failure during break-in.
Engine Oil Selection
Another major factor in the increase of flat tappet camshaft failure is your favorite brand of
engine oil. Simply put, today’s engine oil is just not the same as it used to be, thanks to ever tightening environmental regulations. The EPA has done a great job in reducing emissions and the effects of some of the ingredients found in traditional oils; however these changes in the oil have only made life tougher on your flat tappet camshaft. The lubricity of the oil and specifically the reduction of important anti-wear additives such as zinc and phosphorus, which help break-in and overall camshaft life, have been drastically reduced. In terms of oil selection, we recommend oil with the proper level of “ZDDP”, Zinc Dialkyl Dithiosphosphate additive fortification.
Recent market trends and misinformation have led to a new and adverse side effect known as “Overloading on ZDDP”. When overloading on ZDDP, the additive can actually cause blocking of other important additives, such as friction modifiers or detergent agents. It is imperative that the ZDDP level is carefully specified and blended to correct concentrations.
Engine Oils, Supplements, & Additives
Making certain that the camshaft and lifters are properly lubricated upon installation will
guarantee that they are protected during the critical start-up of your newly-built engine. COMP Cams® offers the right product for this job (COMP Cams® Part #153), and it is available in several different size containers for engine builder convenience. COMP Cams® also has a line of Break-In Oils (COMP Cams® Part #1590 [10w30] and #1595 [20w50]) which have a proprietary formula that includes the proper amount of critical additives, including ZDDP (Zinc& Phosphorus), Molybdenum, detergents and high grade base oil to give you the most optimumoil for the break-in and long-term running of all your purposefully chosen performance enginecomponents. If you have a preferred oil with which you feel comfortable, we strongly recommend the use of COMP Cams® Break-In Oil Additive (COMP Cams® Part #159) duringbreak-in.
3406 Democrat Rd. * Memphis, TN 38118
Phone: 1-800-999-0853 * Fax: (901) 366-1807
subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long term use. This proprietary blend of anti-wear ZDDP fortification, anti-fiction Molybdenum, and extreme pressure additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that the oil companies have been forced to remove from off-theshelf oil. These specialized COMP Cams® lubricants are the best “insurance policy” you can buy, and are the first step to avoiding durability problems with your new flat tappet camshaft.
MOBIL-1'S ANSWER TO OLD SCHOOL FT CAM'D MOTOR OIL REQUIREMENTS FROM THIER WEBSITE.
Heres an example from Mobil oil website question section on what they rec for a high perf ft cam app like your avg old school sbc with a high perf ft cam.
BTW,the 15w-50 nascar endorsed syn oil the Mobil-1 tech is reffering to below has a decent 1300ppm zddp per mobil-1 website and also note they/Mobil-1 didnt rec a much thinner 5-30 or 10-30 grade SN rated oil with a much lower zddp lvl for the hi perf FT cam app in question i cut & pasted from the Mobil-1 website which is because its not best choice in Mobil-1's opinon for that app.
So read the info i patsed below and then make you own choice from there weather to use low zddp lvl SN rated oils in your hi perf ft cam apps as long as said oil with good zddp lvl also has a good quality base stock oil & additive pkg to back up the proper zddp lvl to work together collectively as a strong team to better protect a hi perf FT cam'd motor.
Oil for a Modified 70’s Camaro
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Oil for a Modified 70’s Camaro
Everyone seems to have an opinion and your chart does not go back to 1970. I just bought a 1970 Camaro highly modified 400 Chevy small block. The car does not get driven much - only to car shows and the drag strip a couple times a year. What is the best oil to use because these motors tend to have heat issues. It has a " flat tappet cam ". I want max protection and have used your products for years but not synthetics. Thanks for info.
-- Dennis Boyd, Lexington, KY
For your Camaro, we would recommend Mobil 1™ 15W-50 synthetic motor oil. Mobil 1 15W-50 is a higher viscosity synthetic oil that delivers a thick oil film for protection of high performance engines. Mobil 1 15W-50 is recommended for older valve trains like the highly loaded flat tappets used in your Camaro. These types of engines benefit from the higher level of anti-wear (ZDDP) in that oil normally not required in newer generation vehicles.
The Brad Penn® Penn Grade 1® High Performance Oils contain the higher level of anti-wear (ZDDP – zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) and enhanced film strength so critical to proper high performance engine protection. The Penn-Grade 1® oils “typical” 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P) content provide the needed anti-wear protection to critical engine parts, such as piston/cylinder walls, roller cams under heavy valve spring pressure and especially those that employ a solid “flat tappet” type system. As important as the chemistry is to the Penn-Grade 1® oils, it is by no means the whole story. The unique base oil cut used to refine the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oils maintain a tremendous affinity to metal surfaces. This naturally occurring “metal wetting” characteristic enables the oil to stay put on your highly stressed engines and makes the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oil resist slinging for an extended period of time. Also, rest assured in knowing that the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oils are 100% Made in the USA.