427 block epoxy patch - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 10th, 20, 9:44 PM Thread Starter
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Nelson
 
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427 block epoxy patch

Figured I’d post this cause it’s taken me a long time to build this engine and wondering before I go much further what feed back I’d get. Good or bad.

I got this 1966 427 block which I suspect was probably stroked cause of the rod clearance work done to it. But what concerned me was that one of the grinding spots had epoxy on it. So I figured they must of grinder thru the water jacket. I took the block away.

I took block to be sleeved back to stock bore and magnafux tested. No problems found. Machine shop said nothing wrong with epoxy spot. Plus they added epoxy to the 7 other grind spots (not sure why he did this).

I took it home and continue building it but figured I’d pressure test the water jackets. I put 50 psi in it, no leaks.

Question. Do you think this is a reliable method? Can this fail when engine heats up? The close up picture is of cyl 7.
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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 20, 7:18 AM
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

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Originally Posted by 68C427GO! View Post
Figured I’d post this cause it’s taken me a long time to build this engine and wondering before I go much further what feed back I’d get. Good or bad.

I got this 1966 427 block which I suspect was probably stroked cause of the rod clearance work done to it. But what concerned me was that one of the grinding spots had epoxy on it. So I figured they must of grinder thru the water jacket. I took the block away.

I took block to be sleeved back to stock bore and magnafux tested. No problems found. Machine shop said nothing wrong with epoxy spot. Plus they added epoxy to the 7 other grind spots (not sure why he did this).

I took it home and continue building it but figured I’d pressure test the water jackets. I put 50 psi in it, no leaks.

Question. Do you think this is a reliable method? Can this fail when engine heats up? The close up picture is of cyl 7.
Appears to NOT be a '66 casting based on the oil filter register?? The casting number AND date cast into the block would help.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. We do these for a living here as a business, there's no way I would be able to stand behind a build using that casting with all that epoxy. Not even sure I would get involved with the customers own 100% approval??

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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 20, 8:42 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

Gary thanks. Good catch you obviously know your stuff. It’s a 67. The heads are 66. Here’s a pic of stamps.

I agree with you. I to don’t like the idea of the epoxy. I would of considered brazing the one questionable spot on cyl 7. But I’m concerned of preheating that area with new sleeves already installed. I have heard of some brazing rods that don’t require preheating the area. But I’d have to try it on another casting and then pressure test the weld.

What’s your thoughts on brazing it? Would it be considered a permanent repair?


Thanks Nelson
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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 20, 8:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

Sorry forgot to attach pictures
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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 20, 9:47 AM
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

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Originally Posted by 68C427GO! View Post
Gary thanks. Good catch you obviously know your stuff. It’s a 67. The heads are 66. Here’s a pic of stamps.

I agree with you. I to don’t like the idea of the epoxy. I would of considered brazing the one questionable spot on cyl 7. But I’m concerned of preheating that area with new sleeves already installed. I have heard of some brazing rods that don’t require preheating the area. But I’d have to try it on another casting and then pressure test the weld.

What’s your thoughts on brazing it? Would it be considered a permanent repair?


Thanks Nelson
We can weld it..........but the sleeve job is a disaster. The correct way to fix that is to cut the sleeve out and weld everything up and remachine for a Darton ductile iron sleeve. We do this but for very expensive numbers matching cars. Example: COPO's and rare Corvettes.

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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 20, 1:39 PM
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

Just curious why you would go through all that expense and trouble unless it is some type of numbers matching deal ?????

That being said I had a small block a while back that somebody had done the same thing with stroker clearancing. Customer wanted to save it so we cleaned out the water jackets real good then mixed up a batch of Marine-Tex and poured it about an inch deep in both sides of the block. That was a few years ago and as far as I know it is still running fine. That block didnt need anything else done to it so it was worth a try.
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 20, 1:59 PM
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

I was wondering the same thing. Why would you even start with a block in such bad shape? I'm surprised the machine shop didn't try talk you out of doing it in the first place.
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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 20, 3:43 PM
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

Seen stuff like that last many yrs...some only chance it on a drag car.
If it were me sell it and go get a 454 stick a 427 sticker on the air cleaner

427 is my fav too but everyone I come across has problem, patched up and they still want a fortune for it.
Think of it has a much larger 383 that weighs more.

That epoxy could hold forever or let you down after spending all that money on it.

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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 20, 4:01 PM
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkerman View Post
I was wondering the same thing. Why would you even start with a block in such bad shape? I'm surprised the machine shop didn't try talk you out of doing it in the first place.

I dont know what machine shop prices are where the original poster lives but around here by the time you bought the block, put 8 sleeves in it and did whatever else was needed you would be pretty close to the price of a new block.
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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 20, 5:20 PM
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

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I dont know what machine shop prices are where the original poster lives but around here by the time you bought the block, put 8 sleeves in it and did whatever else was needed you would be pretty close to the price of a new block.
That is why I'm surprised the machine shop didn't suggest a better donor to start with. There is no shortage of blocks around that would have been a much better choice. I would have placed that block right in the scrap bin.
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 11th, 20, 6:29 PM
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

That casting # 3916321 is for early 68 model year. That T097 stamp on the starter pad means that it was a service replacement fitted block that was assembled in September of 1967, and it would not have any stampings on the top deck. If it has 66 heads that were with it when you got it, it probably was a replacement block installed in a 66 Vette or Impala under warranty, and they reused the original heads.

Has the top side ever been decked? Or does it still have original broach marks? If it is unstamped with the original broach marks, then there are probably some 68 Corvette guys that would salivate over that. Maybe enough to be willing to have all the work done to make it "right". But if it has 8 sleeves I assume it was probably decked.

Good luck either way!
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 12th, 20, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

Thanks for real feedback, really appreciate it.
No it’s not a matching number project.
Don’t know why but always loved the mystery engine IV. So decided to look for one this was the best “I” could find cost $1600 bucks, was .060 over not decked, looked like a start.
Machine shop charged me $1600, that included sleeving, fly cut deck, magnafux, cam bearing, crank bearings to, (cause I bought a 6223 crank from him for $300 cut -.010) freeze plugs and it included cleaning up and valve job on 858 heads no fancy work just reseating vlaves and new seals. Fly cut.

OK back to EPOXY lol.
I couldn’t sleep so went back to shop and stripped alllll that damn epoxy off. Found the leak. Tiny pin hole. My take is (which make me feel better about this blocks unknown past abuse) is that this hole or perforation was caused by grinding work for rod clearance. Not due to stress or temp changes. Probably brazed at that time.

I will definitely be brazing this area to build it up. Just gotta see how I go about it without affecting sleeves.
Worst case I’d have to just do one re sleeving.

I know I could probably had just picked up a turn key crate engine or a brand new block, but I’m not into that, I do this for fun. I like the challenge, to a certain point. That is, I’m hoping when I’m done then engine holds a reasonable value. After it’s dyno I’ll probably put it in a 68 Chevelle.

Thanks and counting on your feed back.
Nelson
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 13th, 20, 9:04 PM
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

hard for me to understand. 8 sleeves? why do that? what is the point?

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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 8:41 AM
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

Ok, to each his own but add me to the list of guys wondering why. A ton of expense paid for such a huge nagging question mark. Don’t get me wrong, there is a very special place in my heart for a factory 427 but, how much is too much.

The method of repair bugs me. So some idiot got over zealous with a grinder and nicked the water jacket, while making this factory 427 block a stroker. That’s a whole different WTF question. Wouldn’t a much better repair have been to fill the lower section of the water jacket with a sealant? Seems to me that applying epoxy to the outside is like putting 100 mph tape on an arterial bleed. Decent in a pinch but a catastrophe waiting to happen.

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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 14th, 20, 9:51 AM
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Re: 427 block epoxy patch

Just get a 454 and put 427 stickers on it... A nice 1978, low compression, truck motor with just 1000 miles on it when it was installed. The owner got it from a brand new Bookmobile that got demolished. Stuck it in his basement corner and found the perfect home for it, my 69 SS396 El Camino..

It runs on 87 always starts in the hottest weather. All it needed was tuned and it runs strong!! High compression on a street motor is a pain in the a$$ and frankly I don't think it adds anything to performance. I'm talking street not track now.. We all know you need compression for the drags..
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