Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 19, 12:25 AM Thread Starter
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Scott Scheffer
 
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Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

Hi all,
I had to pull one of the vortec heads off my nearly finished gen 1 350 today. I won't tell you why in this post because I don't want to lose the point of what I'm asking. I'll treat you to my sob story in a separate post so you can laugh at how dumb I was this morning.
Here's my question. Has anyone had problems with Mr Gasket #1076 rocker studs? On mine, when I put it together some of my polylocks were very difficult to thread on . I had to use a wrench all the way down - only on 3 or 4 of them. On the remaining ones, I could screw them on most of the way with my fingers, which seems normal to me, but even on those, when they reached about 3/4 of the way down the threads tightened up (became to difficult to do with my fingers) to the point of having to use tools to get them to go any farther. When I took the head off this morning the polylock on one was so tight that instead of coming off the stud, it unscrewed the stud from the head. I tried "cleaning" the threads on that stud by driving a nut up and down but it destroyed the threads. What gives? Could they be defective? Are they designed to tighten up after going down 3/4 of the way? I'm confused. Anyone had this experience? I guess I'll try to contact the company in the morning but thought I might get more objective advice from this fabulous forum.
Thanks a lot,
Scott
Looking forward to your answers.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 19, 12:34 AM
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Randy
 
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Re: Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

Scott, I can't speak to your stud problem, but a set of Mr. Gasket intake gaskets purchased recently were absolute junk. I recommend you take them out and replace with quality ARP studs. You get what you pay for.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 19, 12:48 AM Thread Starter
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Scott Scheffer
 
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Re: Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

Thanks Randy. I'm wondering if its a problem is that I had a machinist tap the wholes to install them and he machined out the little seat for the 'bubble' on the Mr Gasket studs. Also, I think Arp studs have that collar that's hex shaped like a bolt at the base of the top set of threads, and sit taller than the stock press-in studs. Do you know if either of these are issues? If I can just buy the Arp studs and screw them in I'd be happy about that. I really appreciate the fast reply - thanks a lot. Trying not to let this delay me too much.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 19, 12:48 AM
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Kim
 
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Re: Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

^^^ this. use ARP, throw MrG junk in the garbage. I just tossed a set of header gaskets because they were delaminated out of the package. Personally, every fastener on my junk is ARP and I've never had an issue with them. Just my .02
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 19, 2:03 PM Thread Starter
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Scott Scheffer
 
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Dimensions of rocker stud for Gen 1 350

Hi everyone,
I have a Gen 1 350 with Vortec heads. I first put in Mr Gasket 3/8 screw-in rocker studs, which are garbage. This morning when I called ARP to get some good ones, the tech support guy asked for dimensions. Does anyone know the right height? Or how I can find out? Or even if you know what part number I should order from ARP?
Thanks a lot!
Scott
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 19, 2:07 PM Thread Starter
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Scott Scheffer
 
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Re: Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

Good morning,
So I'm taking the good advice here and getting ARP studs. I posted this question in a separate thread, but thought I'd ask you guys as well. When I called ARP they asked for dimensions of the rocker stud that I need. Of course they're 7/16 on the bottom and 3/8 on top but he needs the height too. Anyone know? Or does anyone know the part number of the correct ones?
thanks a lot,
Scott
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 19, 3:01 PM
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Brian
 
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Re: Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

You might check your poly locks and make sure that they are the correct diameter for the rocker arms. I had to replace some poly locks and the first set I ordered were too big around for my particular rocker arms (they would not go into the recess on the roller rocker trunnion). As a result, they were very hard to turn once they got down to the trunnion. So, I ordered a set that was smaller diameter and they went right in with no issues.

As far as your rocker studs, I am of the opinion that ARP is the only brand that anyone should use. The ones that came on my Dart heads from the factory had issues with breaking - switched them out to ARP studs and the issue went away.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 19, 3:24 PM
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Re: Dimensions of rocker stud for Gen 1 350

Just go to your local old time parts store or jobber and buy the Dorman ones . its a great product for OEM replacement stuff like that and they have a listing for what you need . I have been using Dorman nuts bolts studs etc and other stuff they make for 50 years never a problem, and its a quarter of the price of A R P . NOT Bashing A R P products but there is a time and place where you have to spend for the very best. there is also nothing wrong with PIONEER BARNES OR ELGIN PARTS EITHER Alex
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 19, 6:17 PM
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Re: Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

"I tried "cleaning" the threads on that stud by driving a nut up and down but it destroyed the threads:

Two things about threads and studs,

First, the threading of things in an engine

Conventional threads are usually ones that have their ends shaped into a sideways V. These studs run regular type nuts and are not usually used for engines.

The threads used on most engine applications are called "roll", or, "rolled" threads. These threads do not come to the V shape at the bottom, nor top of each thread end, they come to a curvature at each end of the threads. Look at a threaded fastener, the V will literally look line a V at the thread ends, the rolled, a modified S.

To "chase" a rolled thread stud, or bolt, with a V type thread nut, die, etc., is to ruin it. The V at the end of the regular thread literally cuts away the curved end of the thread on the fastener, AND on any rolled thread hole in the block, heads, like main bolts, head bolts, studs, al of them. So, don't run a regular thread anything on a rolled thread hole, stud, bolt, fastener.

The reason rolled threads are used for engine fasteners is they are considerably stronger than regular V threads, and don't usually cause thread issues.

The next thing on a rocker arm stud is the end that the lock sits against. If we look at a regular V thread stud, its end will show some sort of curvature, or other situation. A rocker stud must have a FLAT cut end to match the poly-lok set screw. If the regular, non-flat stud is used, the lock screw will no seat against the stud correctly, can cock the poly-loc off center, and/or come loose.

For more ingo on regular v, and rolled thread fasteners, look on the ARP site, and google 'V treads' vs 'rolled threads', lots to learn.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 19, 8:24 PM
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Re: Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ray View Post
"I tried "cleaning" the threads on that stud by driving a nut up and down but it destroyed the threads:

Two things about threads and studs,

First, the threading of things in an engine

Conventional threads are usually ones that have their ends shaped into a sideways V. These studs run regular type nuts and are not usually used for engines.

The threads used on most engine applications are called "roll", or, "rolled" threads. These threads do not come to the V shape at the bottom, nor top of each thread end, they come to a curvature at each end of the threads. Look at a threaded fastener, the V will literally look line a V at the thread ends, the rolled, a modified S.

To "chase" a rolled thread stud, or bolt, with a V type thread nut, die, etc., is to ruin it. The V at the end of the regular thread literally cuts away the curved end of the thread on the fastener, AND on any rolled thread hole in the block, heads, like main bolts, head bolts, studs, al of them. So, don't run a regular thread anything on a rolled thread hole, stud, bolt, fastener.

The reason rolled threads are used for engine fasteners is they are considerably stronger than regular V threads, and don't usually cause thread issues.

The next thing on a rocker arm stud is the end that the lock sits against. If we look at a regular V thread stud, its end will show some sort of curvature, or other situation. A rocker stud must have a FLAT cut end to match the poly-lok set screw. If the regular, non-flat stud is used, the lock screw will no seat against the stud correctly, can cock the poly-loc off center, and/or come loose.

For more ingo on regular v, and rolled thread fasteners, look on the ARP site, and google 'V treads' vs 'rolled threads', lots to learn.
Good info.

Randy
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 19, 9:13 PM
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Re: Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

Scott,
It sounds like you are talking about the stock replacement repair studs that dont have a hex on them. I have always used the Pioneer ones but cant say I have ever used them with Polylocks. They are probably designed for the stock type crimp nuts and the thread tolerance might not be that great ? I have a box at the shop and will try to remember and look at them in the morning.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 19, 9:23 PM
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Re: Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

SCott,
I merged your two posts on the subject.
I dont think anyone else is looking at a picture of the studs you purchased. They are more of a repair stud, not a real performance stud. The only way you will be able to use an ARP or other stud with the hex on them is to have the stud bosses machined down to make up for the extra length of the hex area. Your machine shop really should have know this.

ARP always asks because there are so many head variations. You should know what you need when you call them.

What are you doing about guide plates ? The Vortec heads need either a self aligning rocker or guide plates.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 19, 8:06 AM
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Re: Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

Scott,
I looked at the Pioneer ones I have here at the shop and they are all fine. If you want to stick with that type of stud the part number is RM348-16 for a box of 16
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Bill Koustenis
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 19, 12:57 PM
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Re: Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

I've always liked Pioneer. Mr Gasket (Holley) has pretty much gone China on us.

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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old Nov 20th, 19, 3:26 PM
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Re: Problems with Mr Gasket screw-in studs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stokerboats View Post
I've always liked Pioneer. Mr Gasket (Holley) has pretty much gone China on us.
I just purchased a 454 Summit branded flexplate. It was made by Pioneer, ring gear is welded on both sides, nice piece.

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