Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 19, 5:36 PM Thread Starter
Mike
 
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Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

Hello to all,

I'm new to the Chevelles so it's a learning curve. I currently have a 70 SS 396. I want to upgrade to the GM 125678778 crate engine, 502 ci, 460 hp, new block from GM. I saw on Summit Racing product description that the Gen V engines have the 6 quart pan and both the pan and oil pump will need to be modified/changed when dropping it into a Chevelle or Camaro. The current 396 engine seems to have a good bit of clearance between the oil pan in cross member but it's the 4+ quart pan. Has anyone done this and if so, have you had to change or modify the pan ?

Also, the engine description says the engine comes with the flex plate used for auto trannies. I'm putting in a Tremec 5 speed so the flex plate will be changed to a flywheel. I think the bolt mounting is the same for either flex plate or flywheel but thought I should find out prior to shelling out the money for the engine. Am I correct in assuming a flywheel will bolt up to the crank ?

Thanks to anyone who can provide some advice on this.

Mike
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 19, 5:48 PM
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Re: Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melb-Mike View Post
Hello to all,

I'm new to the Chevelles so it's a learning curve. I currently have a 70 SS 396. I want to upgrade to the GM 125678778 crate engine, 502 ci, 460 hp, new block from GM. I saw on Summit Racing product description that the Gen V engines have the 6 quart pan and both the pan and oil pump will need to be modified/changed when dropping it into a Chevelle or Camaro. The current 396 engine seems to have a good bit of clearance between the oil pan in cross member but it's the 4+ quart pan. Has anyone done this and if so, have you had to change or modify the pan ?

Also, the engine description says the engine comes with the flex plate used for auto trannies. I'm putting in a Tremec 5 speed so the flex plate will be changed to a flywheel. I think the bolt mounting is the same for either flex plate or flywheel but thought I should find out prior to shelling out the money for the engine. Am I correct in assuming a flywheel will bolt up to the crank ?

Thanks to anyone who can provide some advice on this.


Mike
Possibly save yourself a lot of grief and cash by getting a turnkey BBC from resident guru Vortec Pro.

Jeff

64 El Camino Pro street, 496, T-400, 9" 3.73


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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 19, 5:54 PM
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Levon
 
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Re: Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

The 502 pan does not fit. The GMPP lists a pan, dipstick separately for older A body cars.

Levon Hovagimian
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 19, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
Mike
 
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Re: Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

Thanks for the input. Vortex Pro is a good source of engines with a very good reputation but he works with a used block vs GM, and the warranty isnít nearly as good as GMPP. Iím 68 years old and canít be pulling engines in and out over and over. I can do it once & hope it lasts. I used to build all my engines but have come to grips with my limitations. GM engineers are quite good, itís hard to beat them at their game. GMPP 502 has roller cam, 4 bolt main, forged crank, rods, pistons and heads with new everything. Call it peace of mind for a higher cost.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 19, 10:45 PM
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Levon
 
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Find some local people that have installed them. Many have ring seal issues and some older ones have head gasket issues. You will also have to get an oil pan and dipstick that fits your chassis. Not saying that a VortecPro is the way to go but certainly an excellent track record.

Good luck with whichever way you go.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 19, 11:00 PM
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Re: Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

Levon is right. We've been here a long time and have the issues from our members. I'd rather have a Vortec with no warranty at all than some anonymous crate engine.

Have youwatched his youtube videos?

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 19, 4:26 AM
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Re: Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

I installed a ram jet 502 with a TKO 600 in my 72 Chevelle. You will need to change the oil pan. I used a moroso pan with baffles and kick outs
I bought the complete kit from hurst driveline and every thing bolted up perfect. Because the engine was new I didn't need any offset dowels for the bell housing. Very fun car to drive

Jeff

67 Chevelle convertible Ly6 4l80e
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71 SS 454 Chevelle LS5 W/Build Sheet
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 19, 6:59 AM
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Vince
 
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Re: Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

The 502 is a good engine, the 454HO is the one you have to be careful of...ring seal issues etc. And who knows, they may of got that straightened out by now.

I wouldnt buy ANY engine until your ready to drive the car. The warranty starts the day you buy it, and if the car sits for a while the warranty is up and your screwed.
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*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90/ 4000lbs RW 11.5/124mph
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph (9.13 ET w/E85 and 16psi) **SOLD**
*2011 Mustang GT premium
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 19, 9:16 AM
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Eric
 
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Re: Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

I used a Canton 133-330T oil pan on my Chevelle with a GMPP 502 block. It fit the chassis well without any inner tie rod interference.

I too have read various posts on the internet about poor ring seal on the 502 block but I've never experienced it or seen it in person. Several people in my area are using the 502 in both the generation 5 & 6 versions without a ring seal issue.

Good luck with your project.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 19, 10:21 AM
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Re: Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

Mike, be aware all current Chevy big block engines are based on the Gen 6 block. The crank, oil pan and timing cover differ from an old school Mk IV.

Chevy big block engine packages use a "low tension" oil ring set. This may cause problems down the line.

I too would recommend an engine package from Vortec Pro.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 19, 5:04 PM
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Jeff
 
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Re: Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melb-Mike View Post
Thanks for the input. Vortex Pro is a good source of engines with a very good reputation but he works with a used block vs GM, and the warranty isnít nearly as good as GMPP. Iím 68 years old and canít be pulling engines in and out over and over. I can do it once & hope it lasts. I used to build all my engines but have come to grips with my limitations. GM engineers are quite good, itís hard to beat them at their game. GMPP 502 has roller cam, 4 bolt main, forged crank, rods, pistons and heads with new everything. Call it peace of mind for a higher cost.
Valid points of comparison between a factory crate engine and a custom build from a shop. Third option is to diy and learn how to build a motor using all the available resources here.

Itís also safe to say GM crate engines are mostly mass produced and as such very little, if any, blueprinting is done. Vortec Pro has built his reputation on massaging factory iron to amazing levels of hp/tq and reliability, as he controls the entire process from core selection to machining, blueprinting during assembly, and dynoing. Whichever route the OP goes, I would highly recommend breaking-in whatever motor he decides to go with on an engine Dyno, not just for numbers, but for any issues that may develop, like leaks etc. better to deal with them before you go through all the work of installing.

I might be taking a shot in the dark here, but I thought a seasoned block will change less dimensionally than a factory new casting, thatís never been heat cycled?
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 19, 9:29 PM Thread Starter
Mike
 
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Re: Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

Wow, a great deal of input, and all of it very well appreciated. Apparently Vortec Pro is a highly rated engine builder. Iím glad to hear so many of you trust him so highly. I was concerned heís in California and Iím in Florida so if I encounter a problem, shipping it back is an expensive issue. I thought GM using new forged components would be better. The mention of a seasoned block being less likely to shift, squirm or twist is a good point. On the other hand, maybe newer castings have better iron quality. Not sure about that, might be a myth.

On the subject of saving some coin with Vortec Pro, GMPP 502 is $7369 delivered. Iím going to call him to see how much a comparable engine (HP & TQ) would cost delivered. His would likely have the correct Chevelle oil pan & dipstick so saving about $279 there. You guys have convinced me to call him. Thanks. This is a great forum, I appreciate the help.

Mike
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 3rd, 19, 9:33 PM
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He is in Colorado FYI. He has a website with prices.. www.vortecpro454.com

Levon Hovagimian
Team Chevelle #279
2015 Camaro ZL1 Summit White (Bone Stock)
70 Chevelle SS 454 LS5 4 speed. SOLD
Current Engine VortecPro 460 (513 HP) Original is resting
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 4th, 19, 2:44 PM Thread Starter
Mike
 
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Re: Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

Thanks Levon. I thought he was in California from his bio on the website describing where he grew up. I watched some of his videos and he sure seems to be very thorough. One video was about valve seat runout on a new set of aluminum heads. Another video was about selecting the right vintage block for the build. I learned a lot about the GM big block. My previous experience has been on the SB Chevy and the Pontiac 400 engines. I've built about 7 engines so far and all have held up amazingly well. However, I find myself going beyond the "budget" since I always want to do upgrades like forged cranks, H-beam rods, etc. All of that adds up very quickly but it does make for a very strong motor.

Vortec Pro's website has prices but the engine description is minimal. He doesn't say if it has a forged or cast crank, forged or cast pistons, 2 or 4 bolt mains, bronze valve guides, etc. I have a feeling his $5595 motor is using non-forged parts with a 2 bolt main block. On his "selecting the right block" video, all he shows are 2 bolt main blocks. A good seasoned block can be a very good motor but a brand new block is "brand new". However, I'll reserve judgement for his description of the block and components.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old Aug 4th, 19, 8:07 PM
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Vince
 
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Re: Gm 12568778 502 engine oil pan

As far as the 502 goes...

Its a nice engine and makes good power. But its not really modification friendly if your looking to do that sort of thing (valve spring limited installed height, guides not cut for positive seals, rocker arms lift limited, non-adjustable rocker arms etc etc). The 4qt pan is probably not a good choice for higher rpm operation as your reducing the amount of oil in the sump and you have to remove the factory windage tray to use it.

*69 SS 502 EFI /224* HR/9.8:1/T56/3.90/ 4000lbs RW 11.5/124mph
*96 Stang 6.0 turbo 10.5/135mph (9.13 ET w/E85 and 16psi) **SOLD**
*2011 Mustang GT premium
*61" Scag Kohler 22hp 7mph
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