Roller camshaft end play - Chevelle Tech
Engine AdvertisementGeneral Engine Discussion. Advertisement

 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old May 23rd, 19, 9:22 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
JOHN
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SC
Posts: 32
Smile Roller camshaft end play

Hey, Guys I building a 396 ci BBC . I was wondering how to check the the camshaft end play with a roller cam . What type of timing cover to use , it will be going in a 67 chevelle so it will be a short water pump . What type gear set , type of thrust bearing and cam button . Thank you in advance for any help !
samsonace is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old May 23rd, 19, 9:31 PM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 256
Re: Roller camshaft end play

I have not done this on a big block but I will this time. On my small block the 1st time out the car went really well then slowed down for no apparent reason I looked and found the cam button pushed the cam forward so here is what I did. I took a piece of angle iron and welded a solid washer on it, then I drilled holes on both sides to match the timing cover. I used threaded rod and nuts on either side to adjust it so when I put pressure on the cover the with my dial indicator set the cam so it only moved .005, it worked perfect so I used it on all the cams I ran in that engine. I will do the same thing on mu big block although the cover is stronger on the big inch engines. I guess you can always buy a fancy cover for like $200 but I like to put my money in other areas of the car. Since you have a short water pump it even easier, just stuff a feeler gauge until you get the cam to go fore and aft .005 then find a washer and epoxy it to the rear cover of the water pump, huh may have to try that if I use the shorter pump.
68Chevele is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old May 24th, 19, 1:09 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
Marcus
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,855
Garage
Re: Roller camshaft end play

Have you bought the cam?

Maybe buy and use a gen6 step nose cam.
Is block drilled an tapped in the front for a retaining plate? If not and not machined yet maybe have the macineshop drill and tap for one. Then you dont need a button a retaining plate hold the camplay like on the last picture.
Whats the plan? Just a nice street cruiser the ho 454/502 or zz502 cam will fit nice. With matching timing set

If you already bought parts or want the retro style with button or block is not drilled and tapped and you dont want to drill and tap. I have used cheap cast alu covers and comp nylon button with short pump. Check endplay at the back removing camplug and using dial indicator.




Dial indicator set up to check play
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	00B6E599-D589-4DF1-888E-FB92A8607158.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	120.4 KB
ID:	594230  
dyno jonn likes this.

Chevelle Malibu ss 64
489 BB with parts from Lewis racing
Alumitech radiator with dual spals
Th 400 Edge 9.5" converter
57 3/4 wide 12 bolt: Eaton posi, Us gear 3.31, Toms KA 33 splines axles

Last edited by Malibu ss 64; May 24th, 19 at 1:29 AM.
Malibu ss 64 is online now  
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old May 24th, 19, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
JOHN
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SC
Posts: 32
Re: Roller camshaft end play

thank you all for the help
samsonace is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old May 24th, 19, 11:02 AM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
Posts: 2,374
Re: Roller camshaft end play

Hi John, if you have the option of using the stepped-nose (MK-VI) cam by all means take advantage of using this setup. It will make your life much easier and require almost no "special" tools to assemble.

Just about all our "streeters" and "street/strip" builds no longer get cam buttons. We stopped using them a few years back.

Around the same time we began replacing all our roller cam inventory and our timing sets over to the stepped-nose setup, we now even do the early SBC's on the same platform, no cam buttons!

Our high-end builds usually get belt-drives so no buttons there either!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. With respect to the photo above showing the mounted plate, I would really recommend using the OEM mounting screws instead of that type bolt pictured. Too many times we've seen the rear side of the cam gear make contact with those larger bolt heads. If not at least check it during the mock-up period?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	BBC Cam Thrust Plate OEM Mtg Screws.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	65.2 KB
ID:	594266  
71350SS and blue_69_malibu like this.

Jan. 2016 - New York Street Ride 7.56 @ 190 @ 3800#
(
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)

Last edited by GOSFAST; May 24th, 19 at 11:27 AM. Reason: C
GOSFAST is online now  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old May 24th, 19, 11:19 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
Marcus
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,855
Garage
Re: Roller camshaft end play

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOSFAST View Post
Hi John, if you have the option of using the stepped-nose (MK-VI) cam by all means take advantage of using this setup. It will make your life much easier and require almost no "special" tools to assemble.

Just about all our "streeters" and "street/strip" builds no longer get cam buttons. We stopped using them a few years back.

Around the same time we began replacing all our roller cam inventory and our timing sets over to the steeped-nose setup, we now even do the early SBC's on the same platform, no cam buttons!

Our high-end builds usually get belt-drives so no buttons there either!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. With respect to the photo above showing the mounted plate, I would really recommend using the OEM mounting screws instead of that type bolt pictured. Too many times we've seen the rear side of the cam gear make contact with those larger bolt heads. If not at least check it during the mock-up period?
They are the screws included with gm timing set 12371053 the heads are low profile probably used 10 sets with no problems but those button head screws are pictured if I check the part nr on summit. Maybe they have changed or the picture is generic?

Chevelle Malibu ss 64
489 BB with parts from Lewis racing
Alumitech radiator with dual spals
Th 400 Edge 9.5" converter
57 3/4 wide 12 bolt: Eaton posi, Us gear 3.31, Toms KA 33 splines axles
Malibu ss 64 is online now  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old May 24th, 19, 11:36 AM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
Posts: 2,374
Re: Roller camshaft end play

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malibu ss 64 View Post
They are the screws included with gm timing set 12371053 the heads are low profile probably used 10 sets with no problems but those button head screws are pictured if I check the part nr on summit. Maybe they have changed or the picture is generic?
Hi Marcus, couldn't edit the post any longer, rules??

(Add) Pay attention to Tom below here, he's "dead-on"!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's G.M. the part number for the OEM screws, 14093637, we have a couple hundred on the shelf. We supply them in the tooling kits to do the SBC early block mod for the stepped-nose setup! This is why we have so many on hand.

Jan. 2016 - New York Street Ride 7.56 @ 190 @ 3800#
(
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)

Last edited by GOSFAST; May 24th, 19 at 11:40 AM. Reason: Add
GOSFAST is online now  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old May 24th, 19, 11:37 AM
Boldly procrastrinating
Tom Terrific II
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Glendale, Az
Posts: 28,045
Garage
Re: Roller camshaft end play

use the thrust plate setup if at all possible. all BBCs have the bosses, some are drilled and tapped some are not. those that are not can be. This is vastly superior to any button deal.

Tom Terrific or Terrible Tom, depending on the phase of the moon, passing cosmic rays or other factors not fully understood except by my wife.
Tom Mobley is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old May 24th, 19, 12:19 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Mike
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mendocino County, Northern CA
Posts: 12,889
Re: Roller camshaft end play

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOSFAST View Post
P.S. Here's G.M. the part number for the OEM screws, 14093637, we have a couple hundred on the shelf. We supply them in the tooling kits to do the SBC early block mod for the stepped-nose setup! This is why we have so many on hand.
I get them here

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/67121608

Mike (Wolfplace)
VISIT US AT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
+4axis CNC block machining+
================================
Welcome to the internet,,, "Experts" made daily
===
"Life is tough.,, Life is even tougher if you're stupid."
----John Wayne----


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Wolfplace is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old May 25th, 19, 12:23 PM
Tech Team
Chris
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 256
Re: Roller camshaft end play

I am also using a roller for the first time on my 454. CC sold me a thrust bearing (#3110TB) and a cam button (#205) to go along with their cam. After reading this thread I called them about using a thrust plate instead but they said they didn't have a part number for my application.

They recommended a wear plate (#203) to be used with the thrust bearing I already bought. Wear plate going against the block and then the thrust bearing going on next. The cam button wouldn't be used. With this setup CC said there was no need to check end play.

Does all of this sound right?

Thanks.

Chris

1970 SS396 Chevelle
468 ci, TH 400, 3:73 posi
SS468 is offline  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old May 25th, 19, 1:27 PM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
Posts: 2,374
Re: Roller camshaft end play

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS468 View Post
I am also using a roller for the first time on my 454. CC sold me a thrust bearing (#3110TB) and a cam button (#205) to go along with their cam. After reading this thread I called them about using a thrust plate instead but they said they didn't have a part number for my application. believe they don't have the correct timing set (with the shim/Torrington for the stepped cams) but they are available. We use them always here!

They recommended a wear plate (#203) to be used with the thrust bearing I already bought. Wear plate going against the block and then the thrust bearing going on next. The cam button wouldn't be used. With this setup CC said there was no need to check end play.

Does all of this sound right?

Thanks.
Hi Chris, cant use that shim with a "conventional;" timing set without machining either the front of the block (.030") or the backside of the cam gear, same amount (.030").

Follow along up here on some of these posts about cam thrust surfaces and if possible tell Comp you want to change to the stepped-nose setup if it's not too late! You'll never regret it, no end-play, no buttons, no shims!

That 205 button isn't going to work either unless you have the OEM "tin" cover, aluminum covers generally use the 200 or 202?

About 99% of our BBC roller builds no longer get cam buttons, the thrust plate setup is not only easier, but a lot faster on ass'y!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. If you stay the course with the conventional MKIV cam snout just order the timing set for it with either the shim (already installed on the gear) or the Torrington equipped one, no machining for either with the correct numbers! Not sure Comp has either, we don't use Comp's timing sets generally.

Jan. 2016 - New York Street Ride 7.56 @ 190 @ 3800#
(
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
)
GOSFAST is online now  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old May 25th, 19, 3:34 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Marcus
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,855
Garage
Re: Roller camshaft end play

If you can change it for a gen 6 cam no big deal. I used the #205 nylon button several times with different covers just trim the lenght with a belt sander. Pretty easy to set the end play and a nylon button with alu cover will live for a very long time.

Chevelle Malibu ss 64
489 BB with parts from Lewis racing
Alumitech radiator with dual spals
Th 400 Edge 9.5" converter
57 3/4 wide 12 bolt: Eaton posi, Us gear 3.31, Toms KA 33 splines axles
Malibu ss 64 is online now  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old May 27th, 19, 9:39 PM
Tech Team
Chris
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 256
Re: Roller camshaft end play

Thx for the advice. I'll call CC tomorrow to see if I can get a stepped-nose cam in the size I am using. That sure sounds like an easier option.

I had already asked them about a timing set with the built-in Torrington bearing and they don't offer it.

Chris

Chris

1970 SS396 Chevelle
468 ci, TH 400, 3:73 posi
SS468 is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old May 28th, 19, 3:15 PM
Tech Team
Chris
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 256
Re: Roller camshaft end play

Good news, CC sells the same cam I have in a step nose. Bad news is the matching timing set costs 5 times as much as the set I bought and they don't have the retaining plate (which is surprising). If I return the cam, timing chain, thrust bearing and button then purchase the new cam and chain it will only be a total of $150 more. Probably worth it to avoid checking the end play and messing with the thrust bearing/button.

Chris

1970 SS396 Chevelle
468 ci, TH 400, 3:73 posi
SS468 is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old May 28th, 19, 3:24 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Marcus
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,855
Garage
Re: Roller camshaft end play

Depending on camspec this timing set might work it comes in zz502s even think gm use it in the 572-620 hp hyd roller engine, its cheap and comes with plate and bolts.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12371053/

Chevelle Malibu ss 64
489 BB with parts from Lewis racing
Alumitech radiator with dual spals
Th 400 Edge 9.5" converter
57 3/4 wide 12 bolt: Eaton posi, Us gear 3.31, Toms KA 33 splines axles
Malibu ss 64 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
12 Bolt Rear End Play Lew540 Transmission & Driveline 9 Apr 27th, 17 10:54 PM
Need to check cam end play on a Gen VI? RSSS1967 Performance 22 Feb 19th, 13 5:57 PM
Oil Restrictors with Solid Rollers RLM66SS Performance 33 Nov 3rd, 12 11:00 AM
Were Atlanta Braves ripped off? "infield fly rule" Agree VS Disagree YankeeRodder Bench Racing 29 Oct 9th, 12 12:29 PM
thrust collar and crank shaft end play problem!!! Mr. D 1999 -- 6 Dec 16th, 99 9:13 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome