More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 19, 3:25 PM Thread Starter
Paul
 
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More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

Hi guys, I know it's been done to death but I'm after a cam recommendation, please.
I'm putting together a Gen 1 3883 SBC in the land down under, it's based on the Eagle stroker kit .....
+.060" flat top 2 valve relief speed pro hyper pistons (-5cc) and 5.7" rods.
Zero deck height, a .038" head gasket and 72cc chambers = 10.35:1 static compression.
Edelbrock performer air gap.
Edelbrock 800cfm vac. secondary carb (I believe Edelbrock rate their carbs differently so its equivalent to around a 725cfm holley).
1.5:1 roller rockers
Trick flow 23deg. 195cc cylinder heads 2.02/1.60 valves with advertised flow figures of:
196/135 @ .300"
234/167 @ .400"
249/186 @ .500"
249/199 @ .600"
I'm hoping for 400lbs/ft @ 2500 rpm, 475-500 lbs/ft @ 4000 rpm and between 450-500 hp @ 5500-6000 rpm.
The car is what I think you call a fleetside, we call it a utility vehicle or ute for short and I want it to be an all rounder.
It will see some light towing, a fair bit of highway use (our speed limit is around 60 mph) and the occasional Friday night at the dragstrip.
Above all I'm after good throttle response, it currently has a T400 with 2500 stall and 3.25 rear gear which I plan on keeping.
I read an article by Steve Duntech who dynoed a 383 similar to mine with a Lunati bootlegger retro fit hydraulic cam (224/236 - .554/.554 - 108) and it made 470lbs/[email protected] rpm and [email protected] rpm with Holley heads and 9.6:1 compression , so I'm hoping using 10.35:1 will put it in my ballpark.
Running the higher compression won't be an issue as we use 98 octane fuel here.
Any alternatives or other suggestions would be great.
Thanks guys ..... I really enjoy this forum.
In case you're wondering why I don't ask locally ..... I can and have ..... but I figure why not ask the folks who've built millions of the things ?????

OH ..... and please don't begin the replies with G'DAY MATE , we don't actually talk like that here ..... HA HA HA.

Last edited by sneem26; May 2nd, 19 at 3:52 PM.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 19, 4:08 PM Thread Starter
Paul
 
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

Oops ..... that's a 388 ..... not a 3883 ..... of course.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 19, 7:30 PM
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Mr Bill
 
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

Paul,
I have never felt comfortable asking for cam recommendations from anyone other than a camshaft manufacturer. I would shoot an e-mail off to a couple of them and see what the replies are. I have been doing this for a living for over 30 years and the first thing I do is pick up the phone and ask my favorite manufacturer which cam I should use. That method has served me well over the years.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 19, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
Paul
 
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

Hi Bill,
I totally agree, our forums are full of guys who've built "many of these with this cam or my friend has one with this cam and it made this much torque and hp".
We actually only have a couple of manufacturers locally and I don't really have a "favourite".
The one my engine machinist uses has suggested a 230/233 - .526/.537 - 110 with the added advice that for best results I should consider raising my compression, converter and rear gear ratios.
Both Comp and Howards on-line recommendations have both come back with cams in the 230 range but I get the impression reading from these threads that something a bit smaller (in the low / mid 220 range) might be the best way to go although these are sometimes lower compression engines that use your 89/93 octane fuel..
An engine builder I respect said that if a wanted a super responsive high torque engine with less than 500hp I should change the heads to 180cc AFR's.
When I bought the car it already had the current heads, converter and rear gear ratio in it and I'm not really interested in scrapping them and starting over.
As I said I'm an avid fan of this forum and was hoping guys like Mike Jones, Chris Straub and others might point me in the right direction.
I'm also realistic enough to know this might be asking a lot as the cost of me ordering a custom cam from them from the other side of the world might end up being prohibitive.
But as my mother says "if you dont ask, you don't get" so I'm casting a wide net, so to speak.
Thanks so much for your reply.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 19, 10:37 PM
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Paul,
Shoot an email with all of the details to Eric at Howard's and see what he says. [email protected]

Bill Koustenis
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Waldorf Md


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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 19, 10:39 PM
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jeff
 
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

That looks like a dandy cam to me.
I have a truck with a ported 906 vortec heads that flows 248-174 @ .500" lift and use it for towing and racing and daily driving.
I went with pack 313 rate 130 seat pressure beehive springs and beehive retainers 1.94-1.50 valves in a 357" SBC with 5cc flat tops .005 down the hole and .039" gasket.
The cam I had made at the cam shop was the exhaust lobe off the LT4 hot cam [email protected] .050 and .492" lift ground on a 110LSA. single pattern hydraulic roller mind you.

It pulls very hard and only 20 lb tq different than my 305 headed 388 stroker with the comp magnum 280H.
To be fair those heads had basic cleanup and mild porting 220 147 cfm at .500" lift. Kind of a putz head.

I wish I had went a larger cam but I "race" often.
Still beat a lot of people and running TH 350 with 3.25 gears.
Runs low 13's in the 1/4.

I see your cam specs and think Man that might be a nice cam for my 357".
You always want more.. Or I do
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 19, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
Paul
 
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

Thanks Bill I will certainly contact Eric.

Thanks Jeff, I assume you're referring to the local cam in the later post rather than the Lunati cam in the first one ???
We never saw the vortec heads or later roller cam engines here.
After 1974 we went to our own locally built Holden engines which came in 253 & 308 ci.
Holden is our version of GM.

The 308 only made around 230hp stock so we stroke them to 355 & 383 to get them up near 400hp but because they were produced in such low numbers there's nowhere near the aftermarket options of the chev.

WOW ..... aren't these forums aren't educational .....



Cheers

Last edited by sneem26; May 3rd, 19 at 12:12 AM.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 19, 7:02 AM
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Gene
 
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

Paul, I;m no cam pro yet for your intended usage something along the lines of a Crane PowerMax 224/230 or the 228/228 should be near ideal. Isky Megacam270 or 270/280. The 230 duration cam suggested by the machinist would be the largest I'd go for your intended useage.

That "bootleg" seems to sport very high lift, are you using a roller cam? Or is that with 1.7X rockers? For Hyd Roller: Isky RR272/282 or RR265/275 which ought have a broader TQ curve.

Gene
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 19, 7:51 AM
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jeff
 
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

I was liking the Lunati bootlegger cam specs I like the 108LSA and i think it may have an earlier closing intake than the later cam on a 110LSA.
Of course there may not be 15HP difference between the 2 cams.
I like compression myself and have ran nearly 12:1 with 91 octane and small 270H comp magnum [email protected] .050 on a 110LSA in a 350" with iron heads.
Towed trailers with it weekly.

I would look at intake closing points.. you have the cubes to support more intake duration for sure and If my local cam grinder had the Bootlegger cam in stock I would probably have him grind it as a single pattern for myself using the exhaust lobe.
Only because I feel the 383 could take it well. My 385" was very traction limited with the comp magnum 280H which is [email protected] .050 single pattern. So traction limited that i was getting beat often. 50 MPH in my 3300lb truck would still haze the tires. Compression was way up though. 57cc head on a 385" with flat tops
That cam is now in my 350" and plenty of vacuum and i have got 15MPG from that grind.

175cc heads though.

Decisions Decisions. Good luck to you.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 19, 8:53 AM Thread Starter
Paul
 
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

Hi again guys,
Yes, I am going to use a retro fit roller which both the local cam and bootlegger are (the .554 lift is with 1.5 rockers), the flat tappet version of the bootlegger has the same specs as the roller apart from having .485 lift with 1.5 rockers.
You're right Jeff, the IVC @ .006 valve lift is around 62 degrees ABDC for the bootlegger and the local cam is around 69.
I want to keep the intake duration low to help with the 2500 rpm converter and 3.25:1 rear gear.
I've even had it suggested I should look at retarding the bootlegger 2 degrees to 106 degrees ICL to help with the converter and add a little hp up top.
I was actually toying with the idea of going up one size in the bootlegger range (232/244 - .554/.554 - 108) and bumping the static comp. up to 10.8 :1 but I don't think the converter would approve.
The reason I'm looking at a dual pattern with the extra exhaust duration is to help the Trickflow heads which don't quite have the best exhaust port flow compared to say the AFR's which are around 15-20 CFM better across nearly the entire lift range.
I will certainly be checking out the Crane and Isky cams.
I'm also waiting on a reply from Howards.
Crane actually have their own separate branch in Australia which is rare and for some reason Isky cams haven't been popular here for a long while but I'll still check them out.
Comp pretty much dominate the market here.
As you rightly say, decisions, decisions.
Thanks again for the replies.


Here's what the beast looks like .... picture sort of an Aussie El Camino flatbed.
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Last edited by sneem26; May 3rd, 19 at 9:12 AM.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 19, 10:44 AM
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jeff
 
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

Retarding the cam does not lead to more top end..at least in the ones we tried it on 350" engines.. one was the 292H which was [email protected] .050 in this car.
1978 Chevrolet Nova 2dr 1/4 mile Drag Racing timeslip specs 0-60 - DragTimes.com
Went from 11.94 to 12.2's with 4 degrees retarded and it would rev to 7500 before and flattened out at 7200 after pulling 4 degrees of cam timing out of it.

Next one was another 350 sbc with [email protected] .050 cam in a 3000 lb truck he wanted more top end ..it was beating the above Nova by a few lengths and retarding it made it run 12.5's

That truck looks light and the 2500 converter behind that stroker may really surpise you.

I built an iron head 388 for father-in-law 624 casting heads 1.94-1.50 valves i ported them and milled them to 72cc.
He had a 64 elcamino 3840lb empty.
TH350 with stock converter.. the stock 350 engine we pulled from it stalled the converter to 1200 rpm.
He said he would need to get a higher stall..I said wait and see what happens first.

Yea 2400 RPM stall behind the 388" engine that cam was a [email protected] .050 and it pulled hard to 6500rpm.

Exhaust flow numbers are deceiving as advertised.. one may use a pipe and another manufacturer may not use a pipe..I think AFR uses a pipe. There is your added CFM

Line of sight in the exhaust port is the tend now not so much the flow numbers.
If you have room to raise the runner roof on the exhaust port then do it.
Or if you have room to port the opening on the header tube to be just a wee bit larger than the exhaust port and still seal well then do that for an antireversion flow deal.

I do that on ally my heads and header tubes or exhaust manifolds.
Your exhaust port numbers look darn good from where I am sitting and I feel the intake side is a bit weak really.

Looks to be stalling or possibly backing up. same flow at .500 and .600
Not something you wish to see really.
Is it chamber shape is it the short turn.. what needs to happen in that head is my question.
But to add a dual pattern with it..I probably would not. But i like my single pattern cams for my stuff.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old May 3rd, 19, 11:00 AM
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

isnt the bootlicker a marketing gimmick in response to the trendy Thumpr? Owned by the same co ironically.

The guys at Crower & Isky are pretty decent on recommendations.If you get a kid asking questions going down a spreadsheet you called the wrong place.

Straub posts here a lot knows his stuff..

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old May 5th, 19, 10:19 AM Thread Starter
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

Yeah, I'm always skeptical about about that stuff too.
But after reading the thing done by Steve Brule from Westech I thought that even if the dyno figures were a little "optimistic" by using another 3/4 of a point of comp. I should at least get close.
Are the dyno figures they get reasonably reliable ???
I only know about him from watching some of the engine masters stuff on u tube and magazine articles I've read.
In Australia we think you should always take the figures from magazines and multiply them by .9 to get somewhere near the truth.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old May 5th, 19, 11:03 AM
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

lol

Jeff..
iron heads
12:1
270 *[email protected]

How does that not rattle itself to death especially towing?!

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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old May 5th, 19, 8:38 PM
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Re: More 388 cam advice ..... from Australia

You did some math.


You know what I did was run the 54 cc chambers and very tight quench to test detonation theory.
80 hours each in porting those 186 casting heads. rough intake runners to keep fuel very atomized and "small" runners of course.
Piston tops were sand blasted with very fine sand so fine it would take some time just to remove carbon off piston tops.

Sharp edges in chambers all removed and polished. I even smoothed the sharp edges on the valves.

Heated intake from exhaust crossover was never completely blocked.
Water temps were not ran over 195.

Buddy borrowed it to tow my trailer and used it for 2 days to move from his place to another.
I got it back and went to work one morning and heard bam bam. After I full throttled it in low of course.
Sounded like I ran over a coffee can full of bolts. It shook the car pretty good

I looked in my mirror nothing so I nailed the throttle again and it went to 4500-5000 rpm and bam BAMMM!!!!
Car shook violently and white smoke following me.
Broke some of a top ring land from a piston and cracked the cylinder wall in 3 places up and down cracks.

Called in to work. had it apart on the stand in 2 hours. at the machine shop that day to bet that cylinder sleeved and bored back to standard and got another set of pistons on the rods .. same 345NP some new rings, bearings , gaskets and
it was back on the road in 2 days.
I went with a .038 or .039" gasket this round. just too see if it acted any different.

Found out my buddy stuck cheap corner store 87 octane fuel in it..I had it tuned then for 93 octane sinclair gas.
He told me I was such a tight wad he did not think I would ever run the high octane fuel.


Made the same power and could not tell any difference with thicker head gasket except when summer temps got to 90+ at that point I did NOT have to retune the timing it seemed happier.
Usually pulled 2 degrees out when heat got to 90+.

I have that short block in my 57 chevy today with 305 heads 601 castings.
It gets driven all the time and not driven lightly.
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