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post #121 of 149 (permalink) Old May 10th, 19, 4:34 PM
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Re: Overheating sbc

OK, what'd I miss? I went to the kitchen for a bowl of popcorn, and lost track of all this...but, keep going, it is a lot better than Reality TV.

For the record, Crane makes the best adjustable vacuum advances, and I, amazingly like Geoff, like both them, and stock non-adjustable vacuum advances, but, I only run vacuum advances on FULL MANIFOLD VACUUM, NOT PORTED. If the engine has a functional EGR valve in place, then, yup, it needs PORTED vacuum advance, and, IT AIN'T A PERF ENGINE IN THE FIRST PLACE. If it runs OK with ported vacuum advance, fix what is broke in the timing curves. I have never had a Crane adjustable vacuum advance that went defective, nor came to me new defective.


As far as what I work on, yes, points and other small diameter stuff, but, I was also part of the original GM team that worked on developing the large, coil in cap HEI, FOR WHAT WE DESIGNED THEM TO DO, NOT NEED MAINTENANCE FOR 50K MILES, FOR EMISSIONS ENGINES. Please, if you don't know what I do, don't tell others you know everything about me, and what I do.


Now, OP, what are the settings for

INITIAL timing?
TOTAL TIMING? (Combination of INITIAL and MECHANICAL ADDED timing, with vacuum advance disconnected???

Then, at idle, and with vacuum advance connected to full manifold vacuum, how many degrees of timing is there???? Engines like to IDLE between 20 and 24 Deg/BTDC, but, don't like all that with initial set there, so, we need a more conservative INITIAL setting, like 14/16 degrees, then ADD the rest with a full manifold vacuum advance set to give the difference in degrees. Example, INITIAL, 14, added full manifold vacuum advance degrees, 10, total IDLE degrees, 24. 16/8, 12/12, get the picture.

I gotta go, ran out of Orville Redeenbocker's and popping oil, I have to go buy more for the next, ongoing episodes, just hilarious.
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post #122 of 149 (permalink) Old May 10th, 19, 5:22 PM
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Re: Overheating sbc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ray View Post
OK, what'd I miss? I went to the kitchen for a bowl of popcorn, and lost track of all this...but, keep going, it is a lot better than Reality TV.

For the record, Crane makes the best adjustable vacuum advances, and I, amazingly like Geoff, like both them, and stock non-adjustable vacuum advances, but, I only run vacuum advances on FULL MANIFOLD VACUUM, NOT PORTED. If the engine has a functional EGR valve in place, then, yup, it needs PORTED vacuum advance, and, IT AIN'T A PERF ENGINE IN THE FIRST PLACE. If it runs OK with ported vacuum advance, fix what is broke in the timing curves. I have never had a Crane adjustable vacuum advance that went defective, nor came to me new defective.


As far as what I work on, yes, points and other small diameter stuff, but, I was also part of the original GM team that worked on developing the large, coil in cap HEI, FOR WHAT WE DESIGNED THEM TO DO, NOT NEED MAINTENANCE FOR 50K MILES, FOR EMISSIONS ENGINES. Please, if you don't know what I do, don't tell others you know everything about me, and what I do.


Now, OP, what are the settings for

INITIAL timing?
TOTAL TIMING? (Combination of INITIAL and MECHANICAL ADDED timing, with vacuum advance disconnected???

Then, at idle, and with vacuum advance connected to full manifold vacuum, how many degrees of timing is there???? Engines like to IDLE between 20 and 24 Deg/BTDC, but, don't like all that with initial set there, so, we need a more conservative INITIAL setting, like 14/16 degrees, then ADD the rest with a full manifold vacuum advance set to give the difference in degrees. Example, INITIAL, 14, added full manifold vacuum advance degrees, 10, total IDLE degrees, 24. 16/8, 12/12, get the picture.

I gotta go, ran out of Orville Redeenbocker's and popping oil, I have to go buy more for the next, ongoing episodes, just hilarious.
Do you think timing would cause a small block Chevy to go to 240 degrees from a cold start then go back down to normal operation and temps for the rest of the operation cycle? I'm not seeing it. Your information is good and I have deep respect for you and your advice. I do think he needs to get his timing dialed in after he repairs the cooling issue.
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post #123 of 149 (permalink) Old May 10th, 19, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
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I think I’ve found the issue. All of the ones I’ve looked at online don’t look like this, it has water lines as if there’s no movement. the rust has the same pattern. The block has no blockage, and I filled the block from the intake.

I’m thinking I filled the cooling system with the top plug closed off and In doing so it creates an air pocket in water pump.
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post #124 of 149 (permalink) Old May 10th, 19, 11:26 PM
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Re: Overheating sbc

I'm thinking the blade is not turning all the time.

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post #125 of 149 (permalink) Old May 11th, 19, 12:30 AM
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Re: Overheating sbc

Is the impeller connected solidly to the shaft. No freeplay and won't spin independently of the shaft? Do all the vanes on the impeller appear to be intact? If so the pump appears to be ok.

The scum line was probably caused if the engine hasn't been run in a while. That pump will move water and air out once it starts pumping. After your thermostat opens for the first time, all air will be pushed out of the system. If you have a bleed hole in the thermostat, this air will be pushed out at start up. If it makes you feel better, remove the top plug when you refill the system and put it back when coolant comes out of the port. I doubt this is the issue, or we would see millions of cases like this.
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post #126 of 149 (permalink) Old May 11th, 19, 1:43 AM
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Re: Overheating sbc

I think your right Al, when I saw that rust I thought clogged radiator it will purge like that as it pulls all the water out then waits for more water on the lower hose.
In the old days you could tell real fast because it would flatten the lower radiator hose but now they put wire in it to stop that.
The upper hose test would have revealed a pulsing system.

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post #127 of 149 (permalink) Old May 11th, 19, 2:46 AM
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Re: Overheating sbc

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Originally Posted by 2cool View Post
I think your right Al, when I saw that rust I thought clogged radiator it will purge like that as it pulls all the water out then waits for more water on the lower hose.
In the old days you could tell real fast because it would flatten the lower radiator hose but now they put wire in it to stop that.
The upper hose test would have revealed a pulsing system.
It may be a plugged radiator. He did say the previous water pump was plugged. I'm discounting that as he says that after the thermostat opens at 240, his car cools down and remains at proper operating temps. I figure his cooling system is up to task. So my guess is that the rumbling he feels in his upper hose is an overheating engine boiling out it's coolant once the thermostat does open. The clear hose would have helped diagnose, but we don't have that. Going back about 50 posts he could have tested without a thermostat or installed a new thermostat, but that didn't happen.

To help eliminate a plugged radiator, he can drain it and fill it from the upper hose. Use a flashlight looking into the radiator cap he should see fluid running in evenly from the core tubes. If it's plugged he can have the radiator rodded out. Champion makes a good radiator that's worth cleaning out.

We never got an answer to whether or not the lower hose had a spring installed. Without it, it could collapse.

I'm pretty sure Gerrett will be a cooling expert by the time this gets resolved.
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post #128 of 149 (permalink) Old May 11th, 19, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Oh sorry the lower hose does have a spring. I’ve watched it and it isn’t collapsing.
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post #129 of 149 (permalink) Old May 11th, 19, 1:22 PM
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Re: Overheating sbc

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Originally Posted by Mrfresh352 View Post
Oh sorry the lower hose does have a spring. Ive watched it and it isnt collapsing.

You need to make sure you are not running out of water on that side of the radiator, that would make it suck air and loose it's prime stopping water flow momentarily then catching back up and pumping, while that is going on the water will sit in the motor and overheat then it will pump it out an return to normal temps until is does it again.


I don't believe putting it in drive has anything to do with it other than maybe slowing the rpm's enough to allow the water flow to catch up.


You should be able to get 1 1/2" clear hose at the hardware and a 1 1/2" muffler pipe at Autozone so you can watch whats going on, that hose cannot stay on the car if you want that you need the kit in the video.

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post #130 of 149 (permalink) Old May 11th, 19, 3:21 PM Thread Starter
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@2cool

I’ve left the cap off and used my spill proof funnel and watched the fluid. I don’t see a flow I mostly saw a pulsing. The fluid would go up and down. I have the rad empty now and I see the bottom has a little dirt debris like rust from the block but nothing big. Some of the fins look as if to have like lint coming out.
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post #131 of 149 (permalink) Old May 11th, 19, 5:02 PM
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Re: Overheating sbc

Fill the radiator from the upper radiator hose and look into the fill hole with a light. You should see flow out of the rad tubes as it fills .

Then back flush your radiator by leaving the upper hose loose and adding water to the cap side. Seal the hose with a wet rag to force pressure in a reverse flow to blow out anything that may be plugging the inlet side of the tubes. If you can, catch what initially comes out. Now is a good time to do a chemical flush of the radiator if you expect it to be lacking in flow. If it's real bad, take it to a radiator shop to get it cleaned out.

How old is the radiator?
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post #132 of 149 (permalink) Old May 11th, 19, 5:10 PM Thread Starter
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Probably bought it in 2013. It only has about about 1000 miles on it. I’ll do the flush at check for flow this evening .
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post #133 of 149 (permalink) Old May 12th, 19, 1:14 PM
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Re: Overheating sbc

That looks like either a full on Flow Kooler water p[ump, or, an open impeller pump with Flow Kooler add on fin close off plate. Either way, they work better than the open back impellers do. The Flow Kooler pumps mimic'd the original cast closed back fin stock Chevy early pumps. With the add on Flow Kooler plate, it is stainless steel, and rivited to the rear of the open back fins. Pump is rebuildable.

Now, you stated you were playing with the ignition timing, what are you trying to use now, please,

Initial
Idle
Mechanical curve
Mechanical curve speed
what port is the vacuum advance connected to, ported or full manifold, and is there a stop for degrees on the vacuum advance, if so, how many degrees does it give?

All this timing stuff makes a difference in performance, efficiency, and COOLING.

Gotta go, my lunch is ready, hot dogs, mac n cheese, iced tea.
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post #134 of 149 (permalink) Old May 13th, 19, 9:50 AM Thread Starter
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The water pump is a jegs long. I’m going to replace it with the kooler since I read those are really good. Got a new hose that dose the droop and I check the rad and all my fins are pushing out fluid, when I did the pour from the top hose.
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post #135 of 149 (permalink) Old May 13th, 19, 5:37 PM
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Re: Overheating sbc

"Jeg's long" is a Flow Kooler type.
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