Looking for feedback on new build... - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 29th, 19, 7:45 PM Thread Starter
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Jim
 
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Looking for feedback on new build...

Hi -

Finally able to sock away a few $$ to replace my engine. Budget is between $2500-3000.

Sticking with a small block and re-using as many parts as possible from my existing 350. The goal is a good street performer - and a good match to my 200R4 and 3.73 rear-end.

I'm considering two choices for the short block. ATK has either their SP03 or SP04 - difference being in the compression ratio. Based on re-using my OEM Vortec heads (64cc), and ATK's specs, this would be either 9.7:1 or 9.9:1. Obviously I want to go with as high a compression as possible with pump gas (91 octane) but not have detonation issues.

This would be a '87/later roller block, so I'm looking at Edelbrocks "Rollin' Thunder" camshaft kits. I've provided the description for their 22096 kit - they also have a 22046 and 22076 with progressively higher specs but those would exceed the max lift on my Vortec heads which were reworked to allow up to .530 lift. I'd like to stay with my current Performer intake (2116) and 1406 carb, although I've read some good results with the Performer RPM.

Thanks for you feedback -

jim

ATK SP03 9.7:1 or ATK SP04 9.9:1
Moroso street/striip oil pan #20172
OEM Vortec Heads - modified to support up to .530 lift
Edelbrock 22096 Rollin' Thunder camshaft kit
Edelbrock 5703 valve springs
Edelbrock 2116 (Vortec Performer)
Edelbrock 1406

Edelbrock Part # 22096 Rolling’ Thunder camshaft kit is designed for 1987 & later small-block Chevy V-8 applications. This complete cam kits include an Edelbrock Rollin’ Thunder hydraulic roller camshaft, hydraulic roller lifters and pushrods. The Rolling’ Thunder camshaft kit is ground specifically for use with the corresponding Performer or Performer RPM manifold and cylinder heads. However, Rolling’ Thunder camshaft package may also be used with other components designed to operate in a similar RPM range.Camshaft Specifications: • Duration @ .050 Intake: 212 degrees • Duration @ .050 Exhaust: 222 degrees • Lift @ Valve Intake: .462” • Lift @ Valve Exhaust: .479” • Lobe Separation: 112 Degrees • Intake Centerline: 107 Degrees • Idle Vacuum @ 1000 RPM’s: 16”
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old Mar 29th, 19, 8:00 PM
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

I have a very similar combo (9.6:1 355 with OEM 062 vortec heads, GMPP version of the performer intake), and I am extremely happy with this cam:

https://www.competitionproducts.com/.../#.XJ6iHrtYaUk

A ton of torque, and good for 108 mph trap speeds in a full weight '65 Nova. Nice lopey idle. I am running it with a 4-spd, but I would probably recommend a mild stall converter with an automatic.

The 108 lobe separation will make more mid-range torque than the Edelbrock cam, but it will have more of a lopely idle and give up a bit of power below 2000-2500 rpm. The Edelbrock cam will idle better, make more vaccum, and probably give better mpg, especially with a low cruise RPM (overdrive). Either should work well. The Howards cam mentioned above still pulls 16" hg at a 800 rpm idle in my car, so it is not rowdy by any means.

Hope this helps.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 19, 1:27 PM Thread Starter
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Jim
 
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

Thanks for the feedback -

Current converter has a 1800 stall - not sure if that would work with the Howards cam, and don't want to spring for another converter if avoidable.

Do you see any issues with detonation with the Edelbrock cam and 9.9 CR?

jim
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 19, 2:18 PM
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

If you're already looking at ATK engine just step up a bit and check out their Basic or mid dress engines
One stop shopping and complete package, no jumbled mismatched parts.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 19, 2:20 PM
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Gene
 
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

the 112LSA will help bleed down some cylinder pressure; it should be fine.
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 1st, 19, 6:39 PM
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

You can go as high as 11 to 1 with the right cam on pump gas. As long as you keep your lift to .500 or so with Vortecs you will be ok. The port tends to stall after that lift number.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 19, 3:10 AM
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

68,
please don't spread that 11:1 BS here. build it like that and it'll ping itself to death in no time. of course there's always some magazine reader that claims all kinds of stuff but it seems that there's only a couple magic machine shops that can build that kind of kind of engine. I have fixed several of them over the years. No problem, just pull it and change to dished pistons. Most of us here gave up on the magic magazine engines a long time ago.

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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 19, 4:20 PM Thread Starter
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Jim
 
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

Tom -

Do you see any issues with my setup at 9.9:1?

Thanks -

jim
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 19, 4:30 PM
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Justin
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim's69Ragtop View Post
Tom -

Do you see any issues with my setup at 9.9:1?

Thanks -

jim
I’m not Tom, it I don’t see a problem. Personally I’d run a little bit bigger of a cam. Something like the comp cam xe268h or maybe even the 262 would be a good equivalent

1974 chevelle with 73 laguna nose sbc 357 Brodix IK180 heads Comp Cams XE274H Edelbrock RPM airgap 650 AED double pumper, M20 muncie, Truetrac with 3.73s
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 19, 4:38 PM
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Brian
 
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

Stay away from those 'Rollin' Thunder' camshafts or any like them - they are just hype. Contact Christ Straub here on Team Chevelle and let him guide you. Once he has your engine particulars, he can point you towards a camshaft that will work well.

I don't think you will have a problem with 9.9:1 compression. My 377 has 9.7:1 (maybe 9.8) and I have never had it ping - ever - except for when my ignition box was failing and the timing was jumping all over the place.

1971 Malibu, factory buckets/full gauges/console, 377 roller cammed small block, Turbo 400, 3.42 10 bolt posi (Buick), - All your base are belong to us.
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 19, 5:07 PM
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WakkoWarner View Post
Stay away from those 'Rollin' Thunder' camshafts or any like them - they are just hype. Contact Christ Straub here on Team Chevelle and let him guide you. Once he has your engine particulars, he can point you towards a camshaft that will work well.

I don't think you will have a problem with 9.9:1 compression. My 377 has 9.7:1 (maybe 9.8) and I have never had it ping - ever - except for when my ignition box was failing and the timing was jumping all over the place.

They are NOT just hype, they work rather well. I have used many over the years here and have been seen some impressive numbers. I actually run their #2263 BBC Hyd. Roller in my personal 496CI engine making 675HP/645TQ. Back when we built this engine, it was some of the highest numbers AFR has seen with their 305cc cnc heads in a pump gas application Its all application. I use their cams in a few Ford builds as well that make great power.

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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 2nd, 19, 5:30 PM
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Mobley View Post
68,
please don't spread that 11:1 BS here. build it like that and it'll ping itself to death in no time. of course there's always some magazine reader that claims all kinds of stuff but it seems that there's only a couple magic machine shops that can build that kind of kind of engine. I have fixed several of them over the years. No problem, just pull it and change to dished pistons. Most of us here gave up on the magic magazine engines a long time ago.
Ran a 400 SB with 11 to 1 pistons with pump gas, the cam was on a 116 LCA and other timing events to get it done. If that's the case you can do that high ask why the LS crowd can do it on pump gas.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 3rd, 19, 7:11 AM
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

well, none of us run 116 LSA is one clear answer. Unless its a turbo mill maybe. Dont ask the LS crowd, their ports and runners are so much different its not really comparable.

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 3rd, 19, 9:36 AM
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim's69Ragtop View Post
would be either 9.7:1 or 9.9:1. Obviously I want to go with as high a compression as possible with pump gas (91 octane) but not have detonation issues.

I have read most of the other replies and here is my opinion. I tell my customers 9.5 to 1 max with iron heads and 93 octane pump gas. Aluminum heads can go 10.5 to 1



If you look at all of GM's crate engine the cast iron head ones are no more than 9 to 1 and the aluminum head versions are no more than 9.7 or so. There is a good reason



Yes you absolutely can go higher BUT you have to be willing to spend a lot of time getting the ignition curve and fuel calibration perfect to do it. I would venture to say that most guys here do not have the equipment or the patience to get it correct.



Camshaft is also crucial to getting it done. Most of the time the camshaft that will work the best will not sound the best Call one of the camshaft manufacturers, tell them what you are trying to accomplish and let them tell you which cam to buy. Don't try to second guess them with internet knowledge.



And I will repeat, you need to decide if you want it to run good or sound good. I personally do not believe you can have both in a street engine without compromising something.



That's my 2 cents
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old Apr 3rd, 19, 3:36 PM
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Re: Looking for feedback on new build...

what Bill said.

SBCs are not LS engines and don't work the same. What applies to one does not necessarily apply to the other. except in magazines and fb, of course. I 'm a little like Bill, we both have to support the stuff we build, unlike the internet builders. I like to see 9.5 with iron heads.

A flattop 355 with 64cc flattops is going to be over 10:1 real compression unless the builder uses the cheapie rebuilder pistons that short of compression height. The compression height of a 350 piston is 1.560", not something shorter. run of the mill rebuilder pistons are often .020 to .040 short of that. Details like this are sort of the difference between getting what you want and getting what somebody is selling off a shelf. Is your interested in ATK I'd call, them and ask to speak to Brandon (see NoTalent) who posted above. he's a straight up guy who will tell you the truth about what's in the ATK engines. Did I mention he works there, supervises the Hi-Perf dep't?

Tom Terrific or Terrible Tom, depending on the phase of the moon, passing cosmic rays or other factors not fully understood except by my wife.
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