Letís play worst case scenario - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
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James
 
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Letís play worst case scenario

Hey fellas, donít ask me how, but it happened. I was installing my header back on my 406 today and the bolt with washer I was holding flew into the exhaust, on top of the valve. I got the bolt out but couldnít get the washer out. I rolled the dice, hooked everything up, started the motor and took it for a drive. Everythingís good, so far. I would guess it shot down the exhaust. I tried to leave the exhaust off the header to see if it would fly out, but nope. Whatís the worst it can happen from here?

Hereís where the washer went:



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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 12:58 AM
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Justin
 
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Well the washer could have gotten into the CC and cylinder and is slowing destroying your engine. Or it did what you hoped and went into your exhaust

1974 chevelle with 73 laguna nose sbc 357 Brodix IK180 heads Comp Cams XE274H Edelbrock RPM airgap 650 AED double pumper, M20 muncie, Truetrac with 3.73s
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 1:23 AM
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Re: Letís play worst case scenario

A friend did something like that last year, it took a few months for the engine to show signs it was eating itself from the inside. During that time it made a couple of trips to the dragstrip. It ran fine, no loss of performance, but it started developed a very mild ticking sound. He pulled the heads and found damage to one of the pistons and a crack in combustion chamber of that cylinder.

Steve R
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 5:59 AM
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Brian
 
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Re: Letís play worst case scenario

Well... I'd say Justin and Steve are right. Since you've started the engine, you have no way to know 100% where the washer ended up. I'd be pulling that head just for piece of mind. Not like it is hard to do or anything,
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 6:37 AM
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KEITH
 
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It could have went out the valve. I would never be that lucky. My luck is it would be stuck in the top of the piston. Just ready to break free and destroy my piston, head, cylinder wall, twist the rod, and throw it through the wall. I have seen it happen to a few 350's from a carb swaps gone bad. The question is.... Do you feel lucky???? Well do ya?
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 7:24 AM
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Re: Letís play worst case scenario

You need to check and see if your local autozone rents out a borescope/inspection camera. Pull the spark plug and put the scope through to see if you can see any damage.

You can also purchase a cheap usb/phone version off amazon/ebay, just make sure that it has adjustable LEDs in the lens to light up what you're wanting to look at. I keep one in the garage, 14mm version fits right though the spark plug hole. It's got limited depth perception, fixed focus, but it helps when you really need it.

*Jeff*

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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 7:50 AM
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KEITH
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotwire View Post
You need to check and see if your local autozone rents out a borescope/inspection camera. Pull the spark plug and put the scope through to see if you can see any damage.

You can also purchase a cheap usb/phone version off amazon/ebay, just make sure that it has adjustable LEDs in the lens to light up what you're wanting to look at. I keep one in the garage, 14mm version fits right though the spark plug hole. It's got limited depth perception, fixed focus, but it helps when you really need it.
that is the easiest and smartest thing I have heard all day. I feel dumb for not thinking of it. 👍👍👍
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 8:09 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Letís play worst case scenario

Iíve got a horoscope! I donít know why I didnít think of that. Plus I could always stick a magnet in to see if I can feel anything.

Thanks guys


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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 8:09 AM Thread Starter
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James
 
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Re: Letís play worst case scenario

If itís still on top of the valve, what damage could it be doing there?


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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 8:20 AM
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Re: Letís play worst case scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-77keith View Post
that is the easiest and smartest thing I have heard all day. I feel dumb for not thinking of it. 👍👍👍
It takes a village some times. I'm not saying I've had to use that approach in the past, but it does work. You can also slowly bring the cylinder to TDC to check burn patterns / damage on the piston face as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Chvll View Post
If itís still on top of the valve, what damage could it be doing there?


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I doubt it would stay in there w/ the valve bouncing and exhaust gas pushing out around it, but if it was, it would be bouncing around on top of the valve, not good. Valve being the lowest point in the port the washer would be sitting on the face, during start up / shut down it could be trying to drop between the valve and seat possibly bending / warping the valve or causing havoc in the combustion chamber. Depending on it's size it could get lodged between the exhaust port wall and valve stem bending it and causing undo wear on your guide.

It's like sand in your bathing suit man, best to make sure it's out before you start having problems.

*Jeff*

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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 8:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Chvll View Post
If it’s still on top of the valve, what damage could it be doing there?


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it could get wedged in between the valve and the seat. Best case just destroying the head. Worst case it gets stuck in between the valve and the seat, destroying head, push rod ,top of piston, and could twist a rod. Hopefully he just finds it laying on the floor or on the frame .
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Letís play worst case scenario

Thanks guys! Such a cheery topic this morning.


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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 10:32 AM
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Re: Letís play worst case scenario

I am going to take the optimistic side. If you did not hear any banging or strange noises when you first started the engine I think you will be ok. Everything that I have seen that had a foreign object between the piston/head/cylinder wall made noise. They were all noticeable.

I would drive it unless I heard noise.
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 10:38 AM
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Re: Letís play worst case scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-77keith View Post
it could get wedged in between the valve and the seat. Best case just destroying the head. Worst case it gets stuck in between the valve and the seat, destroying head, push rod ,top of piston, and could twist a rod. Hopefully he just finds it laying on the floor or on the frame .
Nope, worst case is that it get wedged up between the head flat area and the piston dome. It'll crack the piston, crack the head, eff the crank up if not break it, and if you're really lucky, the free rod end now somehow gouges itself into the cyl wall, bustin' it wide open. Catastrophic failure. Ask me how I know. ( it was a valve cover bolt that done the 350 in, fwiw)

We blow crap out the EX all the time when we clean the glow plugs out of a diesel, but thru the GP hole not past the valve. I cannot imagine it didnt blow out the exhaust. BUT, imagine isnt fact SO YOU MUST INSPECT THE CHAMBER, one way or another to 100% certainty. Cost of a head gasket and a couple of hours at worst. Complete bore inspection might get you 100%.

Think the correct thing to do is pull the header off or away and fish it out before you fire it. Rolling it over ought clear it ought thru compression, if it isnt found straight away.

No matter, bring that cylinder up to near TDC by hand and inspect away. GOOD LUCK!

Gene
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old Jan 31st, 19, 10:52 AM
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Re: Letís play worst case scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by 427L88 View Post
YOU MUST INSPECT THE CHAMBER, one way or another to 100% certainty. Cost of a head gasket and a couple of hours at worst. Complete bore inspection might get you 100%.
I agree - You are at a point where you must know 100%!

Man, I would have never "rolled the dice" with this scenario, but since you did - you need to not run the motor anymore and inspect the chamber. Scope it out, and if there is no evidence - then remove the header and look inside the port.

66 Malibu......on it's way back to life as a BB
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