Looking for opinions - new combination valve - Chevelle Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions & more.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 17, 7:54 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Central MA
Posts: 1,352
Looking for opinions - new combination valve

Hi all. I'm looking for opinions as I have options and I'm not sure which direction I really want to go yet.

Short background - '72 Chevelle, PO converted the front drums to front discs but didn't replace the distribution valve, and didn't add the front metering valve or rear proportioning valve, and didn't exactly use all the correct parts. Normally, not a huge deal, but . . .

I've determined the distribution valve is bad. I can only get a little pressure to the rear brakes no matter what I do, it constantly trips under severe pressure, and doesn't give enough pressure to activate the brakes. Before you ask - I've replaced the main line down the frame rail from the distribution block to the rear crossmember, the rear flex line from the crossmember to the axle, and the rear lines from the axle line to the wheel cylinders, as well as new wheel cylinders and all new rear brake hardware and shoes. Master cylinder is fine (on the 3rd one just in case, same issue.)

So, since I have front disc/rear drum, I figure I'll do it right. So, I have options:

1) Replace the distribution block on the frame rail with a proper combination valve, bracket, buy pre-bent front disc lines. Pros: retains brake warning light, just bolt in parts for the most part. Cons: Location is bad. It's down on the frame, right next to the header. Have to pull the header to swap it all out (no room to work.) Any future work is also quite difficult.

2) Replace the distribution block with a proper combination valve and bracket under the master cylinder. Buy new copper/nickel brake line kit, form up my own lines. Pros: retains brake warning light, easier working location, I get to buy a new tool Cons: slightly more expensive, more time and work.

3) Replace the distribution block with a Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve and bracket under the master cylinder. Buy new copper/nickel brake line kit, form my own lines. Pros: easier working location, adjustable rear proportioning valve, and I still get to buy a new tool Cons: lose brake warning light, much more expensive, more time and work.

4) (Not really an option) replace the distribution block on the frame rail with a new distribution block on the frame rail, add a front metering valve at the master cylinder, add a proportioning valve in the rear brake line. Pros: (none) Cons: lots of work, lots of parts, royal PITA. But, it is an option, but definitely not a good one.

So, thoughts/opinions? Note that looking stock is not a factor, so I'm open to anything.

Here are the various parts I'm looking at for the various options:

Copper/Nickel tubing kit:



Wilwood proportioning valve:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-260-13190

Wire-correct combination valve:



Proportioning valve bracket kit (side mount):
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...lk-s/overview/

Front brake line kit:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rsd-ckt7103

Thanks for any opinions and/or other options/thoughts.

1972 Chevelle, 454, 200-4r non-lockup, 12 bolt 3.73
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
lucifershammer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 17, 8:50 PM
Tech Team
Eddie
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Daly City CA
Posts: 330
Garage
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

I would start from scratch and buy pre-bent brake lines and Disc/drum proportioning valve from right stuff detailing.

Last edited by Eddie K; Aug 18th, 17 at 9:20 PM.
Eddie K is online now  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 17, 9:34 PM
Senior Tech Team
Hank
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 6,770
Garage
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

Whatever you do don't buy a combination valve from Inline Tube. There were so many people having problems with the combination valves I started a thread and poll on bad combination valves and Inline Tube was the winner with the most bad ones reported.

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/16-b...ion+valve+poll

71 Malibu, Cottonwood Green, 396 BBC, AutoGear M22W 4 speed, 12 bolt 3:55 posi.
HKalin is online now  
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 17, 9:37 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Central MA
Posts: 1,352
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie K View Post
I would start from scratch and buy pre-bent brake lines and Disc/drum proportioning valve from right stuff detailing.
Thanks. One vote for option 1

1972 Chevelle, 454, 200-4r non-lockup, 12 bolt 3.73
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
lucifershammer is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 17, 9:38 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Central MA
Posts: 1,352
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by HKalin View Post
Whatever you do don't buy a combination valve from Inline Tube. There were so many people having problems with the combination valves I started a thread and poll on bad combination valves and Inline Tube was the winner with the most bad ones reported.

https://www.chevelles.com/forums/16-b...ion+valve+poll
Thanks - good stuff there. Hard to figure out which combination valve to buy.

1972 Chevelle, 454, 200-4r non-lockup, 12 bolt 3.73
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
lucifershammer is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 17, 9:39 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Cory
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Wimberley, TX (SW of Austin)
Posts: 4,665
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

As I recall from previous threads there was a preference toward the aluminum valve because fewer members experienced the typical leak on the front of the valve. Why that is the case - no idea, but I'm going to try the aluminum one on my next project.
dream66 is online now  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 17, 9:41 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Central MA
Posts: 1,352
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by dream66 View Post
As I recall from previous threads there was a preference toward the aluminum valve because fewer members experienced the typical leak on the front of the valve. Why that is the case - no idea, but I'm going to try the aluminum one on my next project.
Thanks. I'll have to search and see which aluminum one makes sense.

Also, another reason to put it in a convenient service location I suppose vs buried down on the frame rail.

1972 Chevelle, 454, 200-4r non-lockup, 12 bolt 3.73
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
lucifershammer is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 17, 9:49 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Cory
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Wimberley, TX (SW of Austin)
Posts: 4,665
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

I'm planning to try this one:

GM ALUMINUM PROPORTIONING PROP VALVE DISC / DRUM
dream66 is online now  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 17, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Central MA
Posts: 1,352
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by dream66 View Post
What about this one? Same valve, but with bracket and lines?

2 WHEEL 172-1353 GM ALUMINUM PROPORTIONING PROP VALVE DISC / DRUM

1972 Chevelle, 454, 200-4r non-lockup, 12 bolt 3.73
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
lucifershammer is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 17, 10:29 PM
Senior Tech Team
Hank
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 6,770
Garage
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucifershammer View Post
Thanks - good stuff there. Hard to figure out which combination valve to buy.
I bought a brass one from the Right Stuff and it has been good so far. My car had disc brakes from the factory and my combination valve was mounted directly to the frame with no brackets just 2 bolts. I had bought all my lines from Inline Tube also and had no problems with them except for a little tweaking here and there mostly to get the line to line up better to start the fitting into whatever it had to screw into. On my car the front and rear lines off the MC run right behind the PB and down to the combination valve. My first valve from Inline started leaking before I even put the car on the road, about 2 days after I put fluid in the system. I used silicone fluid because I knew a lot of people were having trouble with the valves and I was glad I did because when I had to replace it the fluid went all over the freshly painted frame. I have headers on my car also and was able to remove and replace the valve with no problems. Some of the lines you can tighten with line wrenches but others you need to buy flare nut crow foot wrenches that you use with a extension and rachet. Since then I found a guy that had a couple of NOS combination valves for sale on Ebay and I bought one in case I have anymore problems with the repro valves.
P.S. I talked with Inline Tube over the phone and told them about all the failed valves and how I had taken a poll on them and told them they won with the most failed valves. Even though I had bought the valve that failed more than a year before I actually put it on the car Inline sent me a new one at no charge. It's still sitting in the box in the garage.

71 Malibu, Cottonwood Green, 396 BBC, AutoGear M22W 4 speed, 12 bolt 3:55 posi.
HKalin is online now  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 17, 8:38 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Central MA
Posts: 1,352
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

Just to follow up on this, I've decided to go with option #2, using an aluminum factory-type combination valve. Hopefully all the parts will arrive by next weekend, and I'll be able to git 'er done and finally be able to drive the car this year for at least a month or two before putting it back into hibernation for the winter (I've been messing with these brakes far too long.) And if I do have combination valve issues leaking, at least it is in an easy spot to check and fix.

Of course, that is if the valve is indeed the problem - because if it's not, I have no clue what else could be left as everything has physically been replaced at that point except the booster, and I don't know how the booster could affect having great pressure at the front but no pressure at the rear.

1972 Chevelle, 454, 200-4r non-lockup, 12 bolt 3.73
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
lucifershammer is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 17, 10:03 AM
Senior Tech Team
Hank
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 6,770
Garage
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucifershammer View Post
Just to follow up on this, I've decided to go with option #2, using an aluminum factory-type combination valve. Hopefully all the parts will arrive by next weekend, and I'll be able to git 'er done and finally be able to drive the car this year for at least a month or two before putting it back into hibernation for the winter (I've been messing with these brakes far too long.) And if I do have combination valve issues leaking, at least it is in an easy spot to check and fix.

Of course, that is if the valve is indeed the problem - because if it's not, I have no clue what else could be left as everything has physically been replaced at that point except the booster, and I don't know how the booster could affect having great pressure at the front but no pressure at the rear.
On my 71 Malibu that came with factory disc brakes the only valve it had on it was the combination valve on the frame rail. The two lines from the MC went into that valve and there were three lines that exited the valve. One for the right front disc brake, one for the left front disc brake and the line running to the back that went through the frame and connected to the rubber hose directly.

71 Malibu, Cottonwood Green, 396 BBC, AutoGear M22W 4 speed, 12 bolt 3:55 posi.
HKalin is online now  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 17, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Central MA
Posts: 1,352
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by HKalin View Post
On my 71 Malibu that came with factory disc brakes the only valve it had on it was the combination valve on the frame rail. The two lines from the MC went into that valve and there were three lines that exited the valve. One for the right front disc brake, one for the left front disc brake and the line running to the back that went through the frame and connected to the rubber hose directly.
Yup, that is the factory configuration for front disc/rear drum cars starting in 1971.

Mine was a front drum/rear drum, so all it had was a distribution valve on the frame rail in that location from the factory. No metering or proportioning valves needed in drum/drum, and thus no combination valve, just a distribution valve.

The PO converted the car to front disc by simply swapping spindles, adding rotors and used metric 1980 Camaro f-body calipers and the wrong front hoses to connect them (since the calipers have the banjos on top not bottom.). He left the distribution valve in place instead of replacing it with a combination valve. He also never added the front metering valve or rear proportioning valve which would have made it a complete system.

So, I'm stuck with the mess. Since I have to pull the distribution valve (because its bad as far as I can determine so far) and replace it with a combination valve, or replace the distribution valve and add seperate metering and proportioning valves, I've decided to relocate a new combination valve to a more convenient location, get it away from the headers and put the proper front calipers and hoses on and just get it all right instead of messing with it any longer.

Plus, the front hard lines are all frozen to their fittings and will need to be replaced when I swap out the distribution valve since they are seized and the ends will be destroyed removing them (they are still factory hard lines.). So new lines are needed anyway.

My biggest dilemma so far has now been finding a 9/16-18 inverted flare union for a 1/4 brake line to connect to the new rear lines and extend it to the new combination valve location. It appears to be a mythical creature that doesn't exist. So, I have to use 2 fittings. If that doesn't work, since I'll have the tools and fittings now, I'll just cut the end off the new rear line and replace the fitting with a 7/16-24. But, since its already on the car, that will be difficult, so I'm trying the easy route first.

Blast off and nuke it from orbit time - it's the only way to be sure.

1972 Chevelle, 454, 200-4r non-lockup, 12 bolt 3.73
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
lucifershammer is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 17, 2:55 AM
Boldly procrastrinating
Tom Terrific II
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Glendale, Az
Posts: 28,300
Garage
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

be aware that CPP combo valve is not a GM or Delco part. It sez "Delco-style" in the ad. Probably typical CPP, cheapest china junk money can buy. I think that was what was wrong with all those bad ones. They're CS normally runs to only 2 or 3 options, blame the customer, blame the customers car or just straight denial. "You're the only one complaining about this." "We don't have any returns or warranty issues". It's all they know.

if you don't think this is right ask about their recall of chinese tri-five pittman arms. They ignored the complaints for years and suddenly announced a recall acting like they were the heros for finding and fixing it. IMO, probably some sort of response to an out-of-court settlement to somebody who was damaged when their cheap-assed arm fell apart. "OH we checked those welds 12 years ago when we started selling these." Freakin arm had a internally splined spud welded into a round smooth hole in the arm. welding machine got out of adjustment but they didn't know since they don't check stuff.

Tom Terrific or Terrible Tom, depending on the phase of the moon, passing cosmic rays or other factors not fully understood except by my wife.
Tom Mobley is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 17, 7:13 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech Team
Steve
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Central MA
Posts: 1,352
Re: Looking for opinions - new combination valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Mobley View Post
be aware that CPP combo valve is not a GM or Delco part. It sez "Delco-style" in the ad. Probably typical CPP, cheapest china junk money can buy. I think that was what was wrong with all those bad ones. They're CS normally runs to only 2 or 3 options, blame the customer, blame the customers car or just straight denial. "You're the only one complaining about this." "We don't have any returns or warranty issues". It's all they know.

if you don't think this is right ask about their recall of chinese tri-five pittman arms. They ignored the complaints for years and suddenly announced a recall acting like they were the heros for finding and fixing it. IMO, probably some sort of response to an out-of-court settlement to somebody who was damaged when their cheap-assed arm fell apart. "OH we checked those welds 12 years ago when we started selling these." Freakin arm had a internally splined spud welded into a round smooth hole in the arm. welding machine got out of adjustment but they didn't know since they don't check stuff.
Understood, thanks Tom. I knew that going in I may have issues with the various available combination valves that are still available for my car, which is exactly why I'm locating it somewhere I can get at it and change it easily if it starts having issues.

I haven't been able to find a new GM or Delco part for this - if you have any links to a source that would be great!

1972 Chevelle, 454, 200-4r non-lockup, 12 bolt 3.73
1981 Camaro Z28, 355, TH350, 3.73
lucifershammer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Old Thread Warning
This Thread is more than 840 days old. It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose.
If you still feel it is necessary to make a new reply, you can still do so though.

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome