Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!! - Page 4 - Chevelle Tech
Brakes, Suspension & Steering Conversion questions & more.

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post #46 of 107 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 14, 7:04 AM
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Bob
 
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

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Originally Posted by barrrf View Post
I hardness tested the take out Chinese BJs just out of curiosity. They come out to RC52. I never sent them in for material analysis though. I can have it done for free - I just haven't.

But like Bill I brought my arms into work with me and had them do a sonic weld test. Tested fine. So as far as the quality of the arms is concerned, I think theyre fine.

But the one thing that does bother me is I don't know if theyre an exact rip off of the Global West arms. Or if Global West has their stuff made offshore and just slaps a GW sticker on it. I mean - these control arms look identical to the previous generation GW arms with the exception of the BJs.

Having said that GW has repeatedly stated the off shore arms are a direct rip off. And that is enough to make me want to swap the arms for US built ones.
Isn't every Chinese "performance" part a copy, clone, or fake of something that someone else did all the R&D for?

My question would be...
Why can't the supposedly USA made GW arms be more realistically priced?

$1300 for uppers and lowers with delrin bushings
Lowers:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Global-West/45...oductId=760550

Uppers:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Global-West/45...rentProductId=

or $230 shipped and swap in less than $100 worth of Moog ball joints for piece of mind in what sure looks like the exact same control arms....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/For-64-72-Ch...fbdd0e&vxp=mtr

I don't care who welds them in the USA, or where they bought their steel and hardware from...there is zero justification for a $1000 ($900 if you include the new BJ's) price difference... Like said, it sure looks like the GW arms are the same as the Ebay versions, with, evidently, a $1000 decal on them. No thanks.

As a fleet mechanic for a company 90% GM vehicles, I am often at the dealership for parts....and 99% of those parts are NOT Made in the USA...
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post #47 of 107 (permalink) Old Sep 21st, 14, 9:42 AM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

It takes a while to TEACH YOURSELF......................................
" Good Parts Aint CHEAP, And CHEAP Parts Aint Good ".
Bob


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post #48 of 107 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 14, 4:23 PM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

I'm new to this Forum, so what Control Arms would you go with? I'm in this part of my build where I need to make a decision on what arms to buy with out killing my pockets.


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post #49 of 107 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 14, 6:08 PM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

So many ways to answer your question... but the simplest answer is if your going cheap, replace the ball joint with a well known brand. If you go "proper" its going to cost you a pretty penny.
Ive had my "cheap" arms almost 3 years and haven't had a problem... im slowly learning that cheap ends up costing me more in the long run... but I installed my a arms way before that started happening... its not the best part of the car to learn the lesson on...
If I had to do it all over again I'd say save up for another month and buy american made... but its just so expensive...

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post #50 of 107 (permalink) Old Oct 14th, 14, 7:50 PM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

Some of you may remember Chuck ACES 1 used these same off shore uppers and lowers on one of his low budget Builds. Don't remember if it was a wagon or not. Just a couple members mentioned the arms, and no one continued with it. They were seen on a video I think he had on this site. Would like to know His thoughts on that. They looked pretty good.

Rich
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post #51 of 107 (permalink) Old Oct 24th, 14, 5:10 PM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

I'm leaning towards buying the offshore version. Swap out ball joints, and you're good to go! For $1000 savings, I'm down with that.
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post #52 of 107 (permalink) Old Oct 30th, 14, 5:34 PM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

I just ordered UMI PERFORMANCE! BoOoM

Call Ramey his very knowledgeable,

www.UMIperformance.com
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post #53 of 107 (permalink) Old Oct 31st, 14, 1:23 AM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

try getting any help or service after the sale on any of the CCJ (cheap china junk) stuff. No thanks.

UMI and BMR are reasonable for US made quality parts.

If all you want to think about is the cheapest initial price then ebay is your huckleberry and best of luck to you.

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post #54 of 107 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 14, 8:07 AM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

You are probably correct about the customer service.

Several weeks ago when I bought my UMI lower trailing arm relocation brackets, they could not even be used, as is, because the hardware they supplied couldn't go through the misalignment of the bracket's holes. They also had holes drilled in such a way that if you tried to use the center mounting holes, the bolt wouldn't be tight against the bracket, because it was impossible for it to seat flush. I know of at least one other person here who actually mounted his using these center bolt holes, which on a 10 second car is nothing short of unsafe.

In all fairness, UMI made a revision, made me another set, and sent me out the revised set within a week, so YES, that was indeed good customer service...that I really shouldn't have even needed....but it was good service nonetheless.

On the flipside, UMI reps were offering a special on Viking coilovers and I inquired about a pair for my car. I also gave them a price I had already been quoted from another vendor. They wanted to know who it was, and I told them, and have yet to hear another peep...so, is that also good customer service? I didn't ask, or expect, them to beat that pricing, but did expect a reply back...especially since I was kind enough to tell them what other vendor had given me a quote, after they replied back asking who it was. (Not a vendor here BTW, and one I've never dealt with, which is why I inquired about UMI's "sale" on another site.)



Fast forward to yesterday, I received my brand BMR Xtreme Anti Rollbar. It's touted here and elsewhere as one of the best to use for drag racing and retails for over $400. Nice piece except when I took inventory of the bar and it's hardware, bushings, etc., I find lumps of welding slag powdercoated over. That really wouldn't be even worth mentioning, except that it is on the surface that needs to be smooth, since it bolts up flush around the axle tubes...Now, I'm sure they'd send me another, but I am going racing one last time tomorrow, so I'll have to grind it off myself....again, not a big deal, but the moral of the story is that just because it costs more, or is made in the USA, doesn't mean it's automatically better, or problem free...

I'll surely continue to buy from both BMR and UMI when they have a part I need, at a price I want to pay...

Ironically, my Chinese Ebay control arms fit like a glove....
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post #55 of 107 (permalink) Old Nov 28th, 14, 11:01 AM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

...back to ball joints:

has anyone ever seen anything like this, or used any ball joints like this in the picture? These are Howe Racing take apart upper ball joints for GM bolt-in applications (like Chevelles). The reason that I purchased these from Howe racing, is that they're the only ones I know of (other than a place called "Pro Forged" which I have never heard of) that offer +.9" X-tra tall upper ball joints for our cars when using aftermarket upper control arms ( I don't think that these can be used with factory OE type upper control arms).

I'm just not used to seeing nor using ball joints which can be taken aprt like this, so that is why I'm inquiring here. The one possible issue I already see that I might have with these is that the dust boots that Howe racing sold me (sold separately) are NOT even long enough to completely cover the ball since the stud is .9" longer. I just wrote to Howe Racing to inquire about that. They usually get right back to me within a day, but it being the day after Thanksgiving, they might not be open today, so I'll wait patiently on a reply from them about that.


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post #56 of 107 (permalink) Old Nov 28th, 14, 11:20 AM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

Billy, the dust boot only needs to protect the ball and socket part. Are you saying the boot doesn't go down that far?

The extended ball joints that I have seen all have some, if not all, of the extended stem of the joint exposed.


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post #57 of 107 (permalink) Old Nov 28th, 14, 11:36 AM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

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Originally Posted by rel3rd View Post
Billy, the dust boot only needs to protect the ball and socket part. Are you saying the boot doesn't go down that far?

The extended ball joints that I have seen all have some, if not all, of the extended stem of the joint exposed.
NO, the dust boot doesn't even cover the ball, because it is made for the stock length stud, and therefore doesn't even reach the ball, and it cannot be pulled past the shoulder on the stud, so that it would be close enough to the ball to cover it from road debris. It looks like I would have to try to use an exacto knife to cut the hole in the boot larger, so that it can be slid down over the stud further, so it will cover the ball.

But I'm more concerned about the type of piece this is, being a take apart deal. I've never seen this before.

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post #58 of 107 (permalink) Old Nov 28th, 14, 12:15 PM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

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Originally Posted by BillyGman View Post
NO, the dust boot doesn't even cover the ball, because it is made for the stock length stud, and therefore doesn't even reach the ball, and it cannot be pulled past the shoulder on the stud, so that it would be close enough to the ball to cover it from road debris. It looks like I would have to try to use an exacto knife to cut the hole in the boot larger, so that it can be slid down over the stud further, so it will cover the ball.

But I'm more concerned about the type of piece this is, being a take apart deal. I've never seen this before.
Gotcha. Sounds like you got the wrong boot. Never seen one like that either, but if I remember right, Howe builds a lot of circle track/stock car type suspension pieces and they are supposed to be pretty nice.
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post #59 of 107 (permalink) Old Nov 28th, 14, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

Keep in mind the upper joint is under far less stress than the lower joint, as the lower is carrying the weight of the car while the upper is just holding the spindle upright.
Jim

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post #60 of 107 (permalink) Old Nov 29th, 14, 6:42 AM
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Re: Ball joint snapped in offshore tubular control arm!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rel3rd View Post
Gotcha. Sounds like you got the wrong boot. Never seen one like that either, but if I remember right, Howe builds a lot of circle track/stock car type suspension pieces and they are supposed to be pretty nice.
I hear ya Bob. That's what I was thinking too, about Howe Racing making lots of things for circle track racing. Until i was speaking to a fellow racer who I work with, who used to also own and work at an auto parts store, and he mentioned 2 things that make me wonder about this design:

#1. Cars in th 20's, 30's, & beginning of the 40's used to have take apart ball joints, so this is not a new design, but a VERY old one (according to him).

#2. The many circle track cars get banged up from week to week, and so things like ball joints as well as many other front end parts are being replaced quite often on a steady basis. So if circle track racers are using this type of ball joint, then they might be getting replaced so often in most cases, that longevity/durability perhaps is never put to the test, nor even needed for that matter (this to me sounded like a very good point).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 72ragtop View Post
Keep in mind the upper joint is under far less stress than the lower joint, as the lower is carrying the weight of the car while the upper is just holding the spindle upright.
Jim
Yes Jim, your point is well taken, and I was thinking of that too. However, in a wheels-up launch situation with a drag car, just think of the possible consequences IF the upper ball joint which holds the spindle upright as you've described, failed, and therefore the spindle was no longer held upright. Then what?

The tech at Howe Racing told me that ALL their ball joints are the take apart type (which includes their lower ball joints as well). Earlier in this thread, Bill made mention of the fact that a Howe Racing ball joint failed on him. I'm hoping that he will chime in here again, to share more detail about that. I'm curious to know if it was an upper or lower, and if he was using the OE type control arms with that, or aftermarket.

BTW, I was told by Mark of SC&C that it isn't good to use stock type control arms with tall ball joints due to the increased angles of use with the longer studs of the tall ball joints having the potential to elongate and eventually destroy the mounting holes of stock control arms.

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